Line Combos: 2018-2019 Starting Roster

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voyageur

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Yup, the line is pretty thin between winning and losing in hockey. What do you think the chances are of a team getting outshot 4 to 1 every game in a season and making the playoffs is?

You are just making an argument out of hyperbole. Teams rarely get outshot 4-1. A hockey game is ebb and flow, momentum. That's the execution part, and in modern hockey, special teams.

Shots are important. But possession is the battle. The Jets, with good conditioning, showed an ability to sustain zone time, with defensive pressure and back pressure, winning a lot of one on one's. Keeping sustained zone time beyond 45 seconds of a shift is when you can change lines to increase the pressure and probability of a goal or a penalty. Statically I think offensive zone time is a good measure of our team. Some offense comes from counter attack, but generally originates in offensive zone battles, and execution.
 

Daximus

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Based on tonight if Rosie can take a 3C spot then maybe we role this out opening day.

Connor - Scheif - Wheeler
Perreault - Little - Laine
Ehlers - Roslovic - Dano
Copp - Lowry - Tanev
Petan

There are drivers on every line. Although Rosies line is weaker they have speed and will be sheltered.

I can't see Vesalainen sticking yet. I think the only downside to sending him down is he wants to go back to Europe. Which isn't a bad thing but it doesn't allow the Jets much control in how he develops or the ability to call him up at any point during the season.
 
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Weezeric

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You are just making an argument out of hyperbole. Teams rarely get outshot 4-1. A hockey game is ebb and flow, momentum. That's the execution part, and in modern hockey, special teams.

Shots are important. But possession is the battle. The Jets, with good conditioning, showed an ability to sustain zone time, with defensive pressure and back pressure, winning a lot of one on one's. Keeping sustained zone time beyond 45 seconds of a shift is when you can change lines to increase the pressure and probability of a goal or a penalty. Statically I think offensive zone time is a good measure of our team. Some offense comes from counter attack, but generally originates in offensive zone battles, and execution.

It’s odd that you make this argument while ignoring corsi which is the best measure of useful possession we have...
 

garret9

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Analytics is a feeble attempt to quantify hockey. It is much less predictable than baseball or chess, for example. Much more like football, where execution matters. Make a big enough mistake with 10 shots against and that's a goal. Box out well with 40 shots and good goaltending and it's a shutout. Advanced stats are fine, it's more information, but using it as the basis of an argument as if it were the fundamental truth, overlooks the real fundamentals of hockey. Mc David had 4 points. The Oilers won. Jim Corsi has no Stanley Cup rings. So I don't believe his gospel.

Jim Corsi’s gospel?
What analytical work has that goalie coach done?
 

10Ducky10

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Based on tonight if Rosie can take a 3C spot then maybe we role this out opening day.

Connor - Scheif - Wheeler
Perreault - Little - Laine
Ehlers - Roslovic - Dano
Copp - Lowry - Tanev
Petan

There are drivers on every line. Although Rosies line is weaker they have speed and will be sheltered.

I can't see Vesalainen sticking yet. I think the only downside to sending him down is he wants to go back to Europe. Which isn't a bad thing but it doesn't allow the Jets much control in how he develops or the ability to call him up at any point during the season.
I like MP in the opposite wing of Laine....Scheif with them would be dynamite.
 

Weezeric

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Here was the opening lineup for game 1 last season...

Perreault Sheifele Wheeler
Ehlers Little Laine
Copp Lowry Armia
Petan Matthias Dano

We can expect to have a very different lineup by the end of the season than we do on opening night.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Maurice's starting lineup to start the season.

KC Scheif Wheeler
Ehlers Litttle Laine
MP Roslo Dano
Copper Lowry Tanev
Lemieux Petan

JMo Trouba
Morrow Buff
Kuli Myers
Chiarot

Helle Brossoit

If Lemieux played RW, I think he would start. If he doesn't make the team, he is probably the first call up.

Pretty close there 1010, I think. Lemieux not in the PB, he will get big minutes with the Moose - I just hope he doesn't spend then in the other PB.

So far it looks like Maurice wants the Myers - Buff pair. Third pair would be Kuli plus either Morrow or Chiarot, 3 lefties who have played right side. They could line up any which way. Morrow and Chia might alternate in/out of the PB.

They may very well go with 22 man roster. Saves a bit of cap space and a bit of actual money as well as keeping young players playing instead of watching. They did it quite a bit last year after injuries hit.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I think KV and Dano are both ahead of Petan for a winger spot, mostly because the Jets need another winger that will pursue and win pucks. Petan doesn't do that, which is why he's effective with other players that do that, but not without.

KV has shown a propensity to do that so far in pre-season, and when Dano is a bit quicker and in shape, he is pretty good at getting on the puck and creating some turnovers. KV looks better than Dano and Petan at puck possession in the offensive zone, which gives him some advantage over them.

Not going to contradict this post - but the reason Dano and KV are ahead of Petan is because Petan is not here. It might be the same way if he was, or not. We just can't know that.

Your characterization of the players may be correct but we don't know what kind of player would be the best fit, or what Maurice wants.

Beyond that, I hope KV goes to the Moose. I think that is what would be best for his development. They can bring him up 2-3 times for his 9 games. That will boost his pay while giving him NHL exposure at the same time. Also best for his development.
 

Adam da bomb

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Not going to contradict this post - but the reason Dano and KV are ahead of Petan is because Petan is not here. It might be the same way if he was, or not. We just can't know that.

Your characterization of the players may be correct but we don't know what kind of player would be the best fit, or what Maurice wants.

Beyond that, I hope KV goes to the Moose. I think that is what would be best for his development. They can bring him up 2-3 times for his 9 games. That will boost his pay while giving him NHL exposure at the same time. Also best for his development.
I imagine what Mo wants is a cheaper Armia. But once again, as you say there is no way of knowing one way or another. Ves could be a great Armia to start off with and grow into so much more.
 

nobody imp0rtant

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I imagine what Mo wants is a cheaper Armia. But once again, as you say there is no way of knowing one way or another. Ves could be a great Armia to start off with and grow into so much more.

Mo wants the better Armia, Chevy wants the cheaper Armia. If they both get what they want, win win. :)
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Lmao at anyone who doesn’t think Copp-Lowry-tanev is going to this be the 3rd line to start the season. They dominated McDavid to the tune of 80% Corsi the other night.

Is there such a person? Or are you just making a point about what we call the 2 bottom lines?

CLT will be the same line and deployed the same way regardless of whether we call them the 3rd line, the 4th line or just the shut-down line.
 

nobody imp0rtant

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Is there such a person? Or are you just making a point about what we call the 2 bottom lines?

CLT will be the same line and deployed the same way regardless of whether we call them the 3rd line, the 4th line or just the shut-down line.

Pretty sure the 4th line gets fewer minutes than any other line. That's why they're called the 4th line. If CLT is playing more than (for example) Perreault-Roslovic-Dano, it means that PRD are not as good as we need them to be. So, I guess I am such a person. :)
 

Whileee

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Not going to contradict this post - but the reason Dano and KV are ahead of Petan is because Petan is not here. It might be the same way if he was, or not. We just can't know that.

Your characterization of the players may be correct but we don't know what kind of player would be the best fit, or what Maurice wants.

Beyond that, I hope KV goes to the Moose. I think that is what would be best for his development. They can bring him up 2-3 times for his 9 games. That will boost his pay while giving him NHL exposure at the same time. Also best for his development.
My view is that when a player is ready, get him in the lineup. KVes looks close. Good players that are physically ready can have good performance at 19-20 years old. I'm not sure that KVes is that good yet, but if he is, he should play.
 

Weezeric

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Pretty sure the 4th line gets fewer minutes than any other line. That's why they're called the 4th line. If CLT is playing more than (for example) Perreault-Roslovic-Dano, it means that PRD are not as good as we need them to be. So, I guess I am such a person. :)

Hah that’s exactly my point. CLT was one of the most effective lines in the nhl last season. There’s no way they’re getting the least mins. Especially less than a line with roslovic in the middle,who has proven nothing at center in the nhl.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Agreed with the bolded. I mentioned it in another thread, I don't think the Jets would mind KV going back to Europe if they don't feel he is ready for the NHL. The Euro clause is akin to being able to send a 19 y/o back to junior for their final year while maintaining full control of contract status and not risking an ELC year.

I agree - but I think they would prefer Moose. I would prefer Moose. But Europe is not a terrible option.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Analytics is a feeble attempt to quantify hockey. It is much less predictable than baseball or chess, for example. Much more like football, where execution matters. Make a big enough mistake with 10 shots against and that's a goal. Box out well with 40 shots and good goaltending and it's a shutout. Advanced stats are fine, it's more information, but using it as the basis of an argument as if it were the fundamental truth, overlooks the real fundamentals of hockey. Mc David had 4 points. The Oilers won. Jim Corsi has no Stanley Cup rings. So I don't believe his gospel.

What you are really getting at here is the fact that Corsi - and all the other stats and analysis derived from Corsi are not good for describing individual games.

The entire concept is based on getting a large enough sample to become better at predicting future results than basic scoring stats. It does that quite well - for large sets of games.

Single game - "McDavid had 4 points. The Oilers won." You don't disbelieve his gospel because here, you are trying to misapply it. In this case Corsi can still tell you something about the game, that is in addition to the genuinely important fact that the Oilers won. But it can't overrule or replace that fact with some other result. It doesn't try to.
 
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10Ducky10

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Pretty close there 1010, I think. Lemieux not in the PB, he will get big minutes with the Moose - I just hope he doesn't spend then in the other PB.

So far it looks like Maurice wants the Myers - Buff pair. Third pair would be Kuli plus either Morrow or Chiarot, 3 lefties who have played right side. They could line up any which way. Morrow and Chia might alternate in/out of the PB.

They may very well go with 22 man roster. Saves a bit of cap space and a bit of actual money as well as keeping young players playing instead of watching. They did it quite a bit last year after injuries hit.
I think we see Myers-Buff when we are down 2+ goals or one goal with time running out. I really don't want to see Myers on the 2nd pairing.
If Lemmy plays RW, let him battle it out with Dano for the leftover spot...Petan goes straight to the pressbox when he returns.
I think Vaseline should go to the Moose. If he gets called up in say late January, he could possibly make a statement with his play that he is ready for the big team and play more than his 9/10 game allotment.
 

Teamoo

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Perrault-Scheifele-Laine
Connor-Rosolvic-Wheeler
Ehlers-Little-Dano/Petan
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I imagine what Mo wants is a cheaper Armia. But once again, as you say there is no way of knowing one way or another. Ves could be a great Armia to start off with and grow into so much more.

I don't know that PM is looking for an Armia clone or not. To start, that would be a RW which KVes is not. There are other ways to replace that value.

If KV makes the team I expect him to play LW with Rosie, or whoever gets that C spot and some other LW moving over to the right side. I'd bet on MP right now.

Dano has the advantage of being a RW by experience, if not handedness. Petan has also played some RW.

Right now, I think it looks like Dano gets that spot. That is subject to change of course. I don't see him as an Armia clone but he could fill similar roles.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Pretty sure the 4th line gets fewer minutes than any other line. That's why they're called the 4th line. If CLT is playing more than (for example) Perreault-Roslovic-Dano, it means that PRD are not as good as we need them to be. So, I guess I am such a person. :)

I don't think so. You are just making a point about what we call them. Of course CLT is going to be a line. You would be such a person if you said otherwise. What we call them is of absolutely no consequence.

If Maurice hard matches them against the oppositions top line when we are at home and can control match-ups they might get the most TOI (not predicting, but it could happen, especially if we PK more than we are on the PP). That would not make them our top line. They are our shut-down line, regardless of TOI. The others are scoring lines 1, 2 & 3. Also regardless of TOI. That doesn't say that PRD are not as good as we need them to be. It means that their role saw them get less TOI.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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My view is that when a player is ready, get him in the lineup. KVes looks close. Good players that are physically ready can have good performance at 19-20 years old. I'm not sure that KVes is that good yet, but if he is, he should play.

That is beside the point that I was making. That started with the assumption that KV is not the best player available.

If he is we then have to consider if the difference is large enough to justify keeping him, considering the costs. If he is better by a whisker, I would prefer to see his contract slide. But that is just another reason for preferring him with the Moose. At some point in the season he might exceed the alternative by a significant margin. In that case he can be called up full time. That could happen 20 games in, or 40, or not until next year.
 

puck stoppa

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I'd love to see KVes light it up tonight and then we go:
KVes Scheif Wheels
Connor Roslo Laine
Ehlers little mp
Lowry line
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I think we see Myers-Buff when we are down 2+ goals or one goal with time running out. I really don't want to see Myers on the 2nd pairing.
If Lemmy plays RW, let him battle it out with Dano for the leftover spot...Petan goes straight to the pressbox when he returns.
I think Vaseline should go to the Moose. If he gets called up in say late January, he could possibly make a statement with his play that he is ready for the big team and play more than his 9/10 game allotment.

Hope you are right. I don't mind that pair when we are having to press, but I don't like it as a regular thing.

I have no recollection of having heard of Lemieux playing anything but LW. Someone posted earlier today that he had played some RW. I don't know that that makes him a RW, but if he can beat out the competition for the job, then so be it. He has looked good in TC so far, but it is early.
 
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Tommigun

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It’s odd that you make this argument while ignoring corsi which is the best measure of useful possession we have...

Just out of curiosity, I play a lot of EA’s NHL and it has a stat for time on attack. A lot of the time when matchmaking fails and I play a weak opponent I’ll crush them in time on attack, but I’m a selective shooter so shots can be fairly equal. It’s just that my shots are one-timers and other high danger shots, while the opponent’s shots are clearing attempts hitting the goalie etc.
So in that context the shots tell absolutely nothing, while time on attack shows who’s dominating. Wouldn’t that hold true for real games as well? Selective shooters will have worse Corsi so wouldn’t time on attack (literally possession) be a better measuring tool for possession?

@garret9
 
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