2018-2019 Regular Season Discussion: Part II

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Frozen Failure

They got business in my hockey, and I hate it.
Nov 13, 2007
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Let's better frame it for Jim Nill, since he's going away from what those lines tended to mean... which they still do, but this is some political correct shenanigans.

We need a line that can help take offensive pressure off the top scorers, while also being tasked to do some defensive lifting. They don't need three lines of nothing but defensive grinders/offensive washouts who do nothing but waste time on the ice. That's some Dallas Cowboys time management conspiracy garbage and that's an atrocity against sensibility.

I'd be jonesing to stuff Spezza is a suitcase and ship him to somewhere that needs a fourth line PP specialist rather than try to keep sheltering his minutes. We need a middle 6 with actual point production. 35 points has traditionally been third line numbers, and that's fine, but this team is hurting badly for some 50-60 point talent. No one gives those up, and some of those are manufactured by putting three guys together and them having exceptional chemistry.

I'm gonna do some stats and remind us that our scoring kind of sucks.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
9,072
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I got it, i know what he's doing. by acquiring older, overpaid players, he can turn around and be like see Nichushkin is a Value contract because of how "little' he makes.
 

Troy McClure

Suter will never be scratched
Mar 12, 2002
47,604
15,488
South of Heaven
Quote from Jim Nill:

"He's played with top players in the league," Nill said. "In Anaheim, he played with [Ryan] Getzlaf and Kesler. He can play lower in the lineup. Really, the game's becoming -- people talk about first, second, third, fourth lines -- the game's getting away from that. It's more situational type of lines. That's what Monty has to do, see what's the best fit."


No, it's not getting away from that, Nill. We need a 2nd line. God this is what I was worried about. He acquired Cogliano to be a top 6 forward for us and an answer for our scoring issues. He has actually convinced himself that us not having a 2nd line is not an issue
I think when Nill talks like this, he’s comparing now to the 80s and early 90s. Back then, it was a different animal where you’d have your enforcer type on the fourth line or some old guys who could barely skate any longer.
 

serp

Registered User
Jan 17, 2016
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I think when Nill talks like this, he’s comparing now to the 80s and early 90s. Back then, it was a different animal where you’d have your enforcer type on the fourth line or some old guys who could barely skate any longer.

Back in the days 4th lines would ice completely inept players that would get scored on guaranteed as soon as they hit the ice. Thats not the case anymore. 3rd/4th line may not score but also aren't liabilities defensively. With the influx international players quite a few north american players that would've made the league in the 80's are now no longer NHL player.
 

hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,173
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I think what he means is that instead of stacking offensive talent in order of ability onto the 1st through 4th lines, teams are building their line-up such that they have an answer to any game situation. You still want as much offensive ability on every line as possible, but it's good to have a line that's designed to handle a defensive zone draw against a scoring line, or a line that can establish a forecheck and change the natural gaps the other team is trying to play with. Or a line that can exploit some kind of mismatch in the other team's unit.

It's interesting to me because while in theory I understand why that might be appealing, in practice you look at the most dominant team in the league right now and they are just rolling 4 strong attacking lines with high end D support and are able to control the game against any opponent. When your roster is less talented I suppose you have to do these kinds of shenanigans to get your players to look better by deploying them in situations they are expected to excel in.

Of course, that all is a huge game management responsibility to place on a rookie head coach and his staff. I would expect a veteran coach to struggle sometimes with always ensuring the right guys are rested when the situation demands them, and putting a specialized group of guys out there in the wrong situation can have serious negative returns.
 

Zapp

Registered User
Mar 14, 2016
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Man, reading through all these posts, it's clear we all want the same thing..

Just give us a reason to be excited for this team again, that's all we need.
 
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Kcb12345

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Jun 6, 2017
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I know it's just his gut feeling but this is good to hear for once. No more "I think they're happy with this group going forward" or crap like that. I know that was mostly Heika but I'm happy we aren't hearing Nill say that again or any writers saying it. They seem to be very open to change right now and it's about time.
 

cizko

Registered User
Feb 10, 2009
247
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I've just read an article on main Stars page by Heika about Cogliano trade with some Jim Nill quotes. What immediately struck me was Nill's quote about finding identity of the team. Perception of this cannot be very good. Here is a GM who is managing this team for almost six years, it is mid January and he is wondering what identity of his team is. It is puzzling.

During his tenure, Stars were never a force to be reckon with, but at least in early years of Ruff coaching we had an identity of fast, skilled, offensive team (or so I remember). Then we had Hitchcock, who was total opposite of Ruff (this was probably not completely Nill's decision, but I digress). Now we have Montgomery (who has plenty of room for growth but who, I think, has the potential to be very good coach in the NHL) but with a total mess of a roster. So what happened?

I think when he started as our GM, he had a plan and a vision, but he either couldn't execute it (bad scouting certainly didn't help) or for some reason he deviated from the plan to no plan whatsoever
evidently. I have no idea what this team is or what it will be next season. Maybe it is time to really evaluate this thing and hit a reset button. I can't envision Stars winning Stanley cup anytime soon.
 
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LT

Global Moderator
Jul 23, 2010
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I feel more and more like Dallas really only had a one year window (2015-2016), and our poor goaltending blew that chance for us.

It's hard to see us getting back to that level without any significant overhauls.
 
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serp

Registered User
Jan 17, 2016
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Hitchcock and what he wanted was aparently Gaglardis idea . Bringing in Hitch , players he likes and his system was a massive mistake and that mean no matter what happens our owner should never ever directly incluence any hockey decisions.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
5,386
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Arlington, TX
I've just read an article on main Stars page by Heika about Cogliano trade with some Jim Nill quotes. What immediately struck me was Nill's quote about finding identity of the team. Perception of this cannot be very good. Here is a GM who is managing this team for almost six years, it is mid January and he is wondering what identity of his team is. It is puzzling.

During his tenure, Stars were never a force to be reckon with, but at least in early years of Ruff coaching we had an identity of fast, skilled, offensive team (or so I remember). Then we had Hitchcock, who was total opposite of Ruff (this was probably not completely Nill's decision, but I digress). Now we have Montgomery (who has plenty of room for growth but who, I think, has the potential to be very good coach in the NHL) but with a total mess of a roster. So what happened?

I think when he started as our GM, he had a plan and a vision, but he either couldn't execute it (bad scouting certainly didn't help) or for some reason he deviated from the plan to no plan whatsoever
evidently. I have no idea what this team is or what it will be next season. Maybe it is time to really evaluate this thing and hit a reset button. I can't envision Stars winning Stanley cup anytime soon.

This mirrors my post on the previous page. He started out like gangbusters, going for skill (he thought) with Nuke and Honka in the draft. He had Benn (41 goals) obtained Seguin (33 goals), Sharp (20 goals) and Johns in shrewd trades to upgrade the roster (particularly scoring) and traded for Spezza (33 Goals in 15-16) Hemsky (13 goals), Eakin (16), Janmark (15) and even Scevior, Roussel, Fiddler, Eaves and even pitching in about a dozen goals each. Nuke had a disappointing 9. He brought in Klinger for 10 goals, Demers for 7 on D.

Maybe it was the system, maybe it was the depth scorers all having career years (perhaps because of the system) whereas this year, all the depth scorers are slumping, again in part due to the system, I guess. I am not even sure Kari was all that bad, just hung out to dry a lot.
 

Hockey Dad

Registered User
Jan 27, 2016
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I think part of the problem is It appears Benn has regressed not only on ice but in the room also. Maybe some of the younger players are watching him and not “growing” as they should.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
5,386
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Arlington, TX
I think part of the problem is It appears Benn has regressed not only on ice but in the room also. Maybe some of the younger players are watching him and not “growing” as they should.

Always a problem when a captain is a lead by example guy.....then has trouble leading by example. Spezza says there is no rah rah, but much of that might come from Jamie not being a rah rah guy, too.
 

serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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On this last carcast Shapiro talked about how Benn usually shows up to every practise even the optional ones ( outside when the team tells him to take a break ) and goes hard almost out every single time but when the game starts it's like a completely different player shows up . I don't think preparation and work ethic is the problem . Somehow it just doesn't translate into games anymore. I don't know.
 
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LT

Global Moderator
Jul 23, 2010
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On this last carcast Shapiro talked about how Benn usually shows up to every practise even the optional ones ( outside when the team tells him to take a break ) and goes almost out every single time but when the game starts it's like a completely different player shows up . I don't think preparation and work ethic is the problem . Somehow it just doesn't translate into games anymore. I don't know.

Simply being there is great at many levels, but I'd argue that, in the NHL, it isn't enough.
 

serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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CalculatingMasculineAcornweevil-size_restricted.gif


Hallelujah
 
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