2018-2019 General Lightning Discussion

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Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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I am fine with pulling Stammer away from Kuch, as long as they don't put him with Killorn.

Palat - Johnson - Kuch
Stammer - Point - Miller
Gourde - Cirelli - Joseph
Killorn - Paquette - Erne

I like this, curious how smooth of a transition it will be for Stamkos to move to wing. I also know Killorn has had some high praise for his play with Cirelli, but I am fine with him being on the 4th also.
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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I might be in the minority but I would rather see Stamkos with Gourde on that line instead of Miller

I'd rather not see Point turn into a guy who just feeds Stamkos. We've seen how that's gone for Kuch. I'm a little antsy about putting those two together, but also because Stammer's even less effective on wing, somehow, even though he's a prototypical winger. (...Maybe we do have to revisit it though. It's been a while since he's had a long stint on the wing.)

What about:

Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Miller - Stamkos - Gourde
Erne - Point - Joseph
Killorn - Cirelli - Paquette
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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Truth be told if we're switching it up

Palat-Point-Kucherov
Johnson-Stamkos-Gourde

TKO needs to remain a last resort in my book. As for Miller, no shock he's been craptacular. Put him elsewhere til he heats up. Maybe put Joseph with Cirelli too and see what we get
 

HoseEmDown

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Mar 25, 2012
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Why are we putting Johnson or Stamkos at LW, a position they've never played? If the idea is to get Stamkos going at ES why is putting him with Killorn so frowned upon? Killorn is one of the most consistent ES scorers we have, he's going to produce it's up to Stamkos to do the same. I would put Gourde on the other wing as he's also another good ES scorer. Surrounding Stamkos with guys who produce by working hard and getting dirty will test his desire which needs it because he's been living off the PP or being carried by superior players like Kucherov and St. Louis.
 

Master P

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I'd rather not see Point turn into a guy who just feeds Stamkos. We've seen how that's gone for Kuch. I'm a little antsy about putting those two together, but also because Stammer's even less effective on wing, somehow, even though he's a prototypical winger. (...Maybe we do have to revisit it though. It's been a while since he's had a long stint on the wing.)

What about:

Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Miller - Stamkos - Gourde
Erne - Point - Joseph
Killorn - Cirelli - Paquette
I think the key is just getting Stamkos and Kuch on separate lines. They always look to pass to each other every time they have the puck. At the very least splitting them up for a bit should hopefully kill that habit. Not playing with each other should hopefully get them to start shooting. If they both start producing on separate lines then we could be in really good shape.
 

DFC

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Truth be told if we're switching it up

Palat-Point-Kucherov
Johnson-Stamkos-Gourde

TKO needs to remain a last resort in my book. As for Miller, no shock he's been craptacular. Put him elsewhere til he heats up. Maybe put Joseph with Cirelli too and see what we get

I don't understand the thinking behind this. I mean, I get the first line, but not the second. TKO has been the best line in hockey more than once. Stamkos needs a playmaker to be effective. He and Johnson have never, ever, been good together, and Gourde's more of a clean-up guy than a playmaker.
 

Sky04

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Jan 8, 2009
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I can't believe how much you have to cater to Stamkos to get him going, it's ridiculous for a top player. MSL was so much more versatile, stick him anywhere and he'll produce.
 

Sky04

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I don't understand the thinking behind this. I mean, I get the first line, but not the second. TKO has been the best line in hockey more than once. Stamkos needs a playmaker to be effective. He and Johnson have never, ever, been good together, and Gourde's more of a clean-up guy than a playmaker.

Johnson on LW makes no sense, and like you said him and Stamkos don't work. Palat-Point-Kucherov is fine but that 2nd line isn't. I'm all for TKO or PPK. Johnson back at C gives us more depth down the middle.

Palat-Johnson-Kucherov
Miller-Point-Gourde
Killorn-Stamkos-Joseph
Erne-Paquette-Cirelli
 

DFC

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Johnson on LW makes no sense, and like you said him and Stamkos don't work. Palat-Point-Kucherov is fine but that 2nd line isn't. I'm all for TKO or PPK. Johnson back at C gives us more depth down the middle.

Palat-Johnson-Kucherov
Miller-Point-Gourde
Killorn-Stamkos-Joseph
Erne-Paquette-Cirelli

I think we have enough playmakers to spread them out a bit, yeah. Miller and Joseph are now in that pool. That's my only issue with Point-Kucherov, although I think we still have enough left over to make two solid scoring lines, like these, even in that case.

Normally I'd want Killorn away from Stamkos, but Killorn's been one of our more effective players so far.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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I figured since Stamkos is gonna be a dumbass and over pass through the slot no matter who he plays with you might as well get Gourde in there to clean up. Johnson because he might click with Gourde.

I know my reasons are not good reasons. But who knows what can happen when a seemingly indestructible TKO line turned into a one year wonder
 

DFC

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I figured since Stamkos is gonna be a dumbass and over pass through the slot no matter who he plays with you might as well get Gourde in there to clean up. Johnson because he might click with Gourde.

I know my reasons are not good reasons. But who knows what can happen when a seemingly indestructible TKO line turned into a one year wonder

I think your memory is off. TKO has been good multiple times. In 2017, reuniting TKO sparked our almost-run to the playoffs, before Johnson got injured and his spot was taken over by Point. That line was great too. I would lean toward TKO over PPK because it makes the most out of all three guys, whereas Point will be just as effective, or nearly as effective, with other linemates.
 

DFC

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Joe Smith wrote in the Athletic that the Triplets are being reunited for tonight's game and Stamkos will be with Point and Gourde. He says both Stamkos and Point can play RW but he doesn't say who will for tonight.

Happy about this, even if I'm not crazy about Point-Stamkos just because of the double-center thing (although I think there's a solid chance they prove me wrong).

Not sure who should play C. Stamkos is more the prototypical winger, but Point's hockey IQ might allow him to make the switch more easily.

The thing about TKO is it should get the best out of both Johnson and Palat. I mean, Kuch is obviously going to have to remember how to play hockey for that to happen, but that line has the potential to take two second tier players and elevate them to top tier players. We saw it happen as recently as March (I think) 2017. And it maximizes our scoring potential through the rest of the lineup, because we still have Point, Stamkos, Gourde, Miller, etc. At the very least it should get Stamkos away from shutdown units.
 

TampaJay

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Jan 16, 2016
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Happy about this, even if I'm not crazy about Point-Stamkos just because of the double-center thing (although I think there's a solid chance they prove me wrong).

Not sure who should play C. Stamkos is more the prototypical winger, but Point's hockey IQ might allow him to make the switch more easily.

The thing about TKO is it should get the best out of both Johnson and Palat. I mean, Kuch is obviously going to have to remember how to play hockey for that to happen, but that line has the potential to take two second tier players and elevate them to top tier players. We saw it happen as recently as March (I think) 2017. And it maximizes our scoring potential through the rest of the lineup, because we still have Point, Stamkos, Gourde, Miller, etc. At the very least it should get Stamkos away from shutdown units.
I’m not the biggest Cooper fan but I like the way he is thinking on this one. Hopefully Johnson and Palat will force Kuch back into a more north/south game and away from the fancy to a fault nonsense. Who should play center on the other line in a no brainer. Point is our best match up defensive center and we can’t afford to lose that from the arsenal. The problem is Stamkos will probably resist the move to wing where Point would embrace it.
 

DFC

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I’m not the biggest Cooper fan but I like the way he is thinking on this one. Hopefully Johnson and Palat will force Kuch back into a more north/south game and away from the fancy to a fault nonsense. Who should play center on the other line in a no brainer. Point is our best match up defensive center and we can’t afford to lose that from the arsenal. The problem is Stamkos will probably resist the move to wing where Point would embrace it.

Kuch also has a knack for knowing where Johnson and Palat are going to be in the offensive zone, which should help him remember how to play. TKO was always sort of like a noose tightening. Like, they'd cycle cycle cycle and get closer and closer to the net until something good happened, so it hopefully won't be all about cross-ice passes and perimeter play.

Stamkos-Point-Gourde, just by judging by player type, has a lot of potential too. It's the sniper-playmaker-clean-up line that's probably the most common formula for success in modern NHL history. Hopefully Stamkos will see himself as a trigger-man.

Personally, I'd love to see Stamkos-Joseph. I know it's too early for Joseph, but when you see him streak up the right side, curl back and look to the middle (where his speed has created a lot of open ice), it reminds you of a certain someone who had a lot of success with Stamkos. And no, I'm not comparing Joseph to MSL. I'm just saying his favorite play resembles a play MSL also favored.
 

Hockey4Life91

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Mar 13, 2018
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I'd rather not see Point turn into a guy who just feeds Stamkos. We've seen how that's gone for Kuch. I'm a little antsy about putting those two together, but also because Stammer's even less effective on wing, somehow, even though he's a prototypical winger. (...Maybe we do have to revisit it though. It's been a while since he's had a long stint on the wing.)

What about:

Palat - Johnson - Kucherov
Miller - Stamkos - Gourde
Erne - Point - Joseph
Killorn - Cirelli - Paquette

I completely agree with the concept here. I like the idea of splitting up Kucherov, Stamkos and Point - it spreads out our scoring weapons. In my opinion, it resembles Pittsburgh's approach of splitting up Crosby, Malkin and Kessell. Ultimately, though, this team will not get out of its rut until Stamkos and Kucherov wake up. It is my MO to stress this. But they have to start shooting the puck whenever the puck is on their stick in the offensive zone and there is a clear shot opportunity. They need to play simple hockey, and they have not done so for a long time. Kucherov looks just like he did in the Capitals series: tentative, over-handling the puck, creating costly turnovers, not shooting. For the life of me, I have no idea why Cooper (or any of the other coaches or analysts) have not been able to embed this logic in them. It is so straightforward. And yet I never see manifestations on their part that it is an issue.

Also, it would be interesting to see Stamkos play with Gourde and Joseph. It gives him two blazers who can hound the puck and perhaps he would feel more obligated to just shoot the puck.
 
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Shoresy Snipes

Give yer B's a T ya T F'r
May 6, 2017
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Johnson looked fast last game Triplets could be deadly?
Why do some call it TKO? (yes I get boxing reference) but taking some guys first name, some last name, ehh? Whatever. Here's hoping they are lights out tonight !
 

DFC

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Johnson looked fast last game Triplets could be deadly?
Why do some call it TKO? (yes I get boxing reference) but taking some guys first name, some last name, ehh? Whatever. Here's hoping they are lights out tonight !

Tyler - Kucherov - Ondrej

Quicker than "Triplets," and more accurate in terms of what they were doing on the ice.

I think they'll be as deadly as the version of Kucherov that shows up. If we get A-level Kucherov, they could be as good as ever. If not... Well, at least we get Stammer up against weaker units.
 
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