2018-2019 Around the league thread #3

[henchman21]

Lol here we go again.. JT never played with the talent that MacKinnon already has here, and that's on the way.

Really? The Islanders made the playoffs 3 times and won a round with a Tavares (there was a period of 3 times in 4 years and all 3 happened in the first 7 seasons). The Isles have had Okposo, Nelson, Lee, Leddy, Boychuck, Nielsen, and Barzal at different points during his tenure there. The Avs haven't matched that success yet. If anything, the Isles have proven to be a much better drafting team and built a more solid overall base than the Avs can.

 

[Foppberg]

Really? The Islanders made the playoffs 3 times and won a round with a Tavares (there was a period of 3 times in 4 years and all 3 happened in the first 7 seasons). The Isles have had Okposo, Nelson, Lee, Leddy, Boychuck, Nielsen, and Barzal at different points during his tenure there. The Avs haven't matched that success yet. If anything, the Isles have proven to be a much better drafting team and built a more solid overall base than the Avs can.

The Avs have made the playoffs twice with MacKinnon so far and has been around guys like ROR, Stastny, Duchene, Landeskog, Rantanen, Barrie, EJ and soon to be Makar + OTT 1st. He's played with much more talent over the years than JT had on Long Island. Your fear mongering when it comes to MacKinnon leaving is silly. If we don't make the playoffs for the duration of his contract, then I could see him leaving. But the constant mention of him leaving is "homeless guy yells about the government" esque.

 

[henchman21]

The Avs have made the playoffs twice with MacKinnon so far and has been around guys like ROR, Stastny, Duchene, Landeskog, Rantanen, Barrie, EJ and soon to be Makar + OTT 1st. He's played with much more talent over the years than JT had on Long Island. Your fear mongering when it comes to MacKinnon leaving is silly. If we don't make the playoffs for the duration of his contract, then I could see him leaving. But the constant mention of him leaving is "homeless guy yells about the government" esque.

This is MacKinnon's 6th season... if the Avs miss this season, they can only match what the Isles did with Tavares. Or only expand it by one if the Avs do make the playoff this year. The situations are pretty similar if the Avs continue to struggle in this midpack no mans land. It isn't alarm bell time, but it certainly will be if they struggle this and next year. MacKinnon wants to win and only has 4 seasons left on his contract after this year expires. Many claim the Isles should have traded Tavares last season, so really that last year is the year many would say to trade him or the Avs should at least explore it. That leaves 3 seasons beyond this year. That isn't as long as people make it seem. So it isn't dire, but should be on the radar.

 

[hooverdam]

The Avs have made the playoffs twice with MacKinnon so far and has been around guys like ROR, Stastny, Duchene, Landeskog, Rantanen, Barrie, EJ and soon to be Makar + OTT 1st. He's played with much more talent over the years than JT had on Long Island. Your fear mongering when it comes to MacKinnon leaving is silly. If we don't make the playoffs for the duration of his contract, then I could see him leaving. But the constant mention of him leaving is "homeless guy yells about the government" esque.

Dismissing the possibility of an extremely competitive and emotional player leaving a team that can't win as fear mongering is ridiculous. MacKinnon literally said he's not going to be patient beyond this year. He's watched all of Stastny, ROR, and Duchene leave one after the other. People here want his best friend to join them and think that won't have any consequences.

If the Avs can't capitalize on the window MacKinnon has basically handed them with his contract and rise in play level, why is MacKinnon going to stay? To see how the 2021 16th overall pick turns out?

 

[Foppberg]

This is MacKinnon's 6th season... if the Avs miss this season, they can only match what the Isles did with Tavares. Or only expand it by one if the Avs do make the playoff this year. The situations are pretty similar if the Avs continue to struggle in this midpack no mans land. It isn't alarm bell time, but it certainly will be if they struggle this and next year. MacKinnon wants to win and only has 4 seasons left on his contract after this year expires. Many claim the Isles should have traded Tavares last season, so really that last year is the year many would say to trade him or the Avs should at least explore it. That leaves 3 seasons beyond this year. That isn't as long as people make it seem. So it isn't dire, but should be on the radar.

Gotcha. It's something to be cognizant of but I think it's not something to worry about for another few years, and that's if we tread water.

Dismissing the possibility of an extremely competitive and emotional player leaving a team that can't win as fear mongering is ridiculous. MacKinnon literally said he's not going to be patient beyond this year. He's watched all of Stastny, ROR, and Duchene leave one after the other. People here want his best friend to join them and think that won't have any consequences.

If the Avs can't capitalize on the window MacKinnon has basically handed them with his contract and rise in play level, why is MacKinnon going to stay? To see how the 2021 16th overall pick turns out?

Like I just said, if we tread water for the duration of his contract then I can see him leaving, but it's premature to talk about now.

 

[hooverdam]

Gotcha. It's something to be cognizant of but I think it's not something to worry about for another few years, and that's if we tread water.



Like I just said, if we tread water for the duration of his contract then I can see him leaving, but it's premature to talk about now.

I don't think it's premature to say "if we don't start making smart, aggressive moves on the specific timeline MacKinnon gave, he might want to leave," because that timeline starts this summer. I'm worried about it because this season has been like watching someone procrastinate studying for a big test when they could just pick up a book or two a little while earlier and alleviate some anxiety, but I know it's entirely possible they ace the test anyway.

 

[Foppberg]

I don't think it's premature to say "if we don't start making smart, aggressive moves on the specific timeline MacKinnon gave, he might want to leave," because that timeline starts this summer. I'm worried about it because this season has been like watching someone procrastinate studying for a big test when they could just pick up a book or two a little while earlier and alleviate some anxiety, but I know it's entirely possible they ace the test anyway.

I mean it isn't a potential problem exclusive to the Avs. If Buffalo treads water Eichel might leave, if Calgary doesn't go far Gaudreau might leave, if Detroit doesn't rebuild well Larkin might leave, if Florida treads water Barkov might leave, etc etc etc. If a team doesn't play well their star player might leave, that's just kind of common sense.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Dismissing the possibility of an extremely competitive and emotional player leaving a team that can't win as fear mongering is ridiculous. MacKinnon literally said he's not going to be patient beyond this year. He's watched all of Stastny, ROR, and Duchene leave one after the other. People here want his best friend to join them and think that won't have any consequences.

If the Avs can't capitalize on the window MacKinnon has basically handed them with his contract and rise in play level, why is MacKinnon going to stay? To see how the 2021 16th overall pick turns out?

And I would argue that Mack should learn something from his friends leaving as none of them are no longer with the team they went to. The grass always look greener somewhere else but it is not always better.

Every GM has to deal with his star player potentially leaving at the end of his contract. They all know that. The only way to keep your star player is to have your team on an upward trajectory when it is time to sign him. Sakic knows that. If the team keeps improving he will re-sign. There is no use to worry 4 years before. In two years if the team is still not close to be a SC contender I'll start to worry. It's silly to worry now because we all know that the team needs to take steps forwards in order to keep him from leaving then.

 

[hooverdam]

And I would argue that Mack should learn something from his friends leaving as none of them are no longer with the team they went to. The grass always look greener somewhere else but it is not always better.

Every GM has to deal with his star player potentially leaving at the end of his contract. They all know that. The only way to keep your star player is to have your team on an upward trajectory when it is time to sign him. Sakic knows that. If the team keeps improving he will re-sign. There is no use to worry 4 years before. In two years if the team is still not close to be a SC contender I'll start to worry. It's silly to worry now because we all know that the team needs to take steps forwards in order to keep him from leaving then.

What lesson should MacKinnon learn from ROR and Stastny? "Don't want money"? He's better than both of them. He's going to get paid better than both of them. He's said, explicitly, that he thinks players should be paid what they're worth.

The Avs saw Stastny as expendable because of ROR, Duchene, and MacKinnon. Then they saw ROR as expendable because of Duchene and MacKinnon. They weren't blameless in their departures and to MacKinnon it just looked like friends and talent leaving the organization because of money issues. God help us if they try to pull the same crap with Rantanen this summer, because MacKinnon has already said he wants Rantanen to get paid.

The point I'm trying to make isn't that MacKinnon is definitely going to leave. It's that they need to take steps forward to make sure he doesn't leave, because MacKinnon isn't going to stay out of the goodness of his heart. We agree that steps forward are needed; my argument is they need to retain and add talent with a better track record than they have so far in MacKinnon's career.