2018-2019 Around the league thread #1

[S E P H]

Hate to bring it to you but playing hockey growing up costs a lot of money, especially where the climate doesn't allow the kids to play outside. Parents from places like Africa and Spain can make their kids play soccer (immensely more popular and prestigious) for a few dollars a year. It will always remain a niche sport.

I've been through this argument a million times on the Business section and I always bring up golf - it's actually a lot more money putting your kid in there if you think about the training, the forge irons, and all the money spent on going to courses. Golf doesn't have a niche problem compared to hockey and that's because the game is known at the grassroot level, where hockey needs to improve on.

Ice rinks are also notably cheaper to build than the average golf course, especially if you want to make a top notch one. If there is something about hockey which I admit is quite expensive, it's the amount of times you have to buy your kid equipment due to his/her's growth over the course of their hormone stage. However, I've heard many stories where parents buy their kids overlarge skates to last multiple years longer. Companies like CCM and Bauer are making many different models for their skates to limit the cost, if you go to a hockey store now, CCM has three different brands of skates and in the brand of skate are different models ranging from 1,000 bucks to 200 bucks. Not only that, but previous model skates can go for as low as 160 bucks with the top models going for 300 to 500 bucks from 800 range. It's very possible to make hockey cheap, people are just too lazy to look. Sure, I don't expect hockey beat out the likes of throwball, football, and basketball, but I think the sport has a lot potential which hasn't reached the grassroots level yet.

Actually I read a story about how these parents put their son into soccer and he got good enough to play in the MLS. They wouldn't name who it was, but in the article I read that when he was getting good, he played for a very good travelling team which ultimately cost the same as a kid playing on the best AAA midget programme.

 

[UncleRisto]

You're referring to Song, the Chinese player Islanders draft? I never said he was going to be an NHL player at all, just was stoked that they drafted a dude like that....until I realised that they did it simply for publicity and nothing more. Not sure I ever like stuff such as that, I much rather draft players from non-traditional countries that actually have NHL talent.

The point is to grow the sport no? Having an interesting story like that is awesome and good publicity for the NHL that you want to root for him. I've seen in play like 40 times in the past three years, saying he could be a solid bottom 6 doesn't sound like I am blindly rooting for diversity.

I'm just messing with ya. I wasn't referring to any specific thing. I just think it's mildly amusing that you bang the Div-B nat. team drum and bring up these non-traditional market fringe players every so often (together with your non-American pop culture preferences from the lounge, I might add).

What @cgf is to German players, is what all the Finnish posters are to every Finnish prospect ever, is what @S E P H is to the "rest of the world" region.

(It's cool though, every bit of insight is appreciated, make no mistake about that.)

 

[cgf]

I'm just messing with ya. I wasn't referring to any specific thing. I just think it's mildly amusing that you bang the Div-B nat. team drum and bring up these non-traditional market fringe players every so often (together with your non-American pop culture preferences from the lounge, I might add).

What @cgf is to German players, is what all the Finnish posters are to every Finnish prospect ever, is what @S E P H is to the "rest of the world" region.

(It's cool though, every bit of insight is appreciated, make no mistake about that.)

Did we not just go through a draft cycle where I was rooting for us to draft a number of different dudes over the german kid?

Don’t mistake my love for specific german prospects for a universal homerism of all german prospects. Drai & Dahoud are just special cases.

...and at this point I’m pretty sure no one is still arguing against me about Leon being better than the Sams...

 

[cgf]

Actually I read a story about how these parents put their son into soccer and he got good enough to play in the MLS. They wouldn't name who it was, but in the article I read that when he was getting good, he played for a very good travelling team which ultimately cost the same as a kid playing on the best AAA midget programme.

Comparing the costs for kids competing at the highest levels is misleading AF; it is so much cheaper to get started as a footballer & get to that higher level. Anyone can go to the park with a ball and start learning the game to see if they have a knack for it. Whereas just trying hockey out to see how good a fit it is for you is too expensive for some kids who don’t play for a team that sponsors lower-income kids like the team I played for.

There’s a reason why even in the West, hockey isn’t the working-class sports that football or basketball are.

 

[UncleRisto]

Did we not just go through a draft cycle where I was rooting for us to draft a number of different dudes over the german kid?

Don’t mistake my love for specific german prospects for a universal homerism of all german prospects. Drai & Dahoud are just special cases.

...and at this point I’m pretty sure no one is still arguing against me about Leon being better than the Sams...

Again, completely tongue in cheek, don't worry about it.

 

[cgf]

Again, completely tongue in cheek, don't worry about it.

Well then we’re going to have problems with your comment about other Finns & their rampant homerism; cause that ish is no joke...

 

[S E P H]

I'm just messing with ya. I wasn't referring to any specific thing. I just think it's mildly amusing that you bang the Div-B nat. team drum and bring up these non-traditional market fringe players every so often (together with your non-American pop culture preferences from the lounge, I might add).

What @cgf is to German players, is what all the Finnish posters are to every Finnish prospect ever, is what @S E P H is to the "rest of the world" region.

(It's cool though, every bit of insight is appreciated, make no mistake about that.)

I think I just got super trolled there, good job UR I totally took the bait. Well for me, I really like anticipating which countries will grow into powers so I pay more attention to the Koreas', Hungarys', Australias', and Denmarks' of the hockey world than the average hockey fan - I love finding those hidden gem players from the lower end countries. FTR, Jermaine can't really play for Jamaica so he's full Canadian blood.

Comparing the costs for kids competing at the highest levels is misleading AF; it is so much cheaper to get started as a footballer & get to that higher level. Anyone can go to the park with a ball and start learning the game to see if they have a knack for it. Whereas just trying hockey out to see how good a fit it is for you is too expensive for some kids who don’t play for a team that sponsors lower-income kids like the team I played for.

There’s a reason why even in the West, hockey isn’t the working-class sports that football or basketball are.

Oh don't think I was comparing the costs between hockey and football, I definitely wasn't trying to do that. I just compared those two stories to show that any sport, even one that requires a 15 dollar ball can get as high as hockey. My argument is I believe that hockey costs tend to get overgeneralized here.

 

[UncleRisto]

Well then we’re going to have problems with your comment about other Finns & their rampant homerism; cause that ish is no joke...

No kidding.

As far as prospects, I reckon it's just exposure, at least for me it is, but fandom and all that is a cultural phenomenon for sure. As I have said before, I'm not a fan of following Finns in the NHL, *cough Minnesota cough*, but especially those who don't invest much time in the NHL tend to do that. So what I think is, if you choose that way, at least stick with the team - it's a team sport for shit's sake. Anyway... I'm torn by Mikko Rantanen because now people will think I hopped on in 2015. Or maybe this past year.

I think I just got super trolled there, good job UR I totally took the bait. Well for me, I really like anticipating which countries will grow into powers so I pay more attention to the Koreas', Hungarys', Australias', and Denmarks' of the hockey world than the average hockey fan - I love finding those hidden gem players from the lower end countries. FTR, Jermaine can't really play for Jamaica so he's full Canadian blood.

Yeah kinda, but luckily you other folks have taken it to a real discussion.

 

[Balthazar]

Oh don't think I was comparing the costs between hockey and football, I definitely wasn't trying to do that. I just compared those two stories to show that any sport, even one that requires a 15 dollar ball can get as high as hockey. My argument is I believe that hockey costs tend to get overgeneralized here.

The mistake that you make here is comparing the cost of becoming an elite soccer player vs a kid just playing the game of hockey (there's no massive cost difference between playing midget BB and midget AAA).

Like any sport, usually to get elite players you need a large base of casual players and it's not happening if just getting to play your first game costs a fortune, which would be the case in those countries.

I was raised in Canada in what I'd call a lower middle class family and at one point hockey became too expensive for my dad. I could afford to ski, play in a summer baseball league, but just one kid playing organized hockey was busting the family budget allocated for sports. Now keep in mind that I live in a "rich" country and we weren't rich but we weren't poor either.

It takes a lot of commitment for a parent to make their kids play organized hockey and I just don't see it happening in countries with no outside rinks and no tradition to play the game. At least not on a scale big enough to grow a constant stream of NHL caliber players. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Avsrule2022]

Rec level 8 year old hockey on the Front Range can cost over 1K to play. It's not so much the equipment, it's the ice fees. 500-800 dollars per kid for an hour 3 times a week. Then you have to pay the "Organization" 200-300 bucks to join. Adds up fast. Nearly every other sport is way cheaper to start out with to see if you like it.

That being said, living somewhere in Canada or Minnesota, Boston area, ect. there are more rinks available and most of the high schools have teams, which helps with some of the costs. But it can be ridiculously expensive here in Colorado. I once considered adding up what I spent on my son for 12 years of hockey here, but I quit when I realized setting myself on fire would be less painful lol.

 

[agentblack]

Yeah i was a youngling living in Aurora CO at one point and i became obsessed with Hockey and i wanted to play so bad like i cried when i realized i couldnt because of money basically. So i wish there was some system to help out kids like me back then cause i just look back and man i wish i could have been taught how to play, it would have been soooo much fun. Like you guys dont know i was not really into sports until i discovered the greatest game on Earth and my world just opened up and i lived and breathed it afterward.

instead i guess i had to teach myself how to play roller hockey haha which had mixed results , it wasnt the same, not by a long shot.

 

[cgf]

Yeah i was a youngling living in Aurora CO at one point and i became obsessed with Hockey and i wanted to play so bad like i cried when i realized i couldnt because of money basically. So i wish there was some system to help out kids like me back then cause i just look back and man i wish i could have been taught how to play, it would have been soooo much fun. Like you guys dont know i was not really into sports until i discovered the greatest game on Earth and my world just opened up and i lived and breathed it afterward.

instead i guess i had to teach myself how to play roller hockey haha which had mixed results , it wasnt the same, not by a long shot.

I didn’t realized at the time how cool it was that that was basically what my team did. Between the kids that could afford it & the sponsorship from the Blackhawks, a lot of kids who couldn’t afford to play got a chance on that team.

It’s a shame that that’s too expensive to expand too much with the kind of money hockey generates. The NHL’s obsession with parity & hatred of personality, as well as controversy, has really hurt it’s ability to capitalize on the NFL’s demise the way the NBA has been.

 

[dahrougem2]

My pops was routinely paying between $1,500 - $2,500 annually for me to play hockey at the AAA level growing up, and that's just one kid. Imagine having a couple of kids playing at those levels, **** gets expensive AF real quick.

I'm firmly of the opinion that roughly 30 years from now, hockey will not be the #1 sport in Canada anymore. I absolutely expect it to be overtaken by both basketball and soccer.

 

[S E P H]

My pops was routinely paying between $1,500 - $2,500 annually for me to play hockey at the AAA level growing up, and that's just one kid. Imagine having a couple of kids playing at those levels, **** gets expensive AF real quick.

I'm firmly of the opinion that roughly 30 years from now, hockey will not be the #1 sport in Canada anymore. I absolutely expect it to be overtaken by both basketball and soccer.

I can't talk about money for competitive teams, but in my post I mentioned that when you get good for any single type of sport those competitive teams tend to cost the same regardless on what activity it is. However, I admit that hockey parents probably pay sooner than parents of other sports. Majority of these posts I am reading are all from the 1990s and what not which was a brutal time for hockey expenses, but I've noticed that the prices are going down thanks to companies like All Black Hockey Sticks - Hockey Sticks Just Became Affordable and Bauer/CCM making multiple options for their brands and items.

I just can't see hockey falling, I actually think it has quite high potential since majority of countries don't know about it at the grassroot level yet. If hockey actually got its arse in cheque and started marketing the sport properly, more people will choose it during their kid days, more kids will create more companies for equipment, more competition of equipment will reduce the costs for equipment. Again, all you people are saying hockey will fail due to its expenses, but why not golf? It's just as remote in terms of playing, tee time, and whatnot than hockey is.

 

[Balthazar]

I can't talk about money for competitive teams, but in my post I mentioned that when you get good for any single type of sport those competitive teams tend to cost the same regardless on what activity it is. However, I admit that hockey parents probably pay sooner than parents of other sports. Majority of these posts I am reading are all from the 1990s and what not which was a brutal time for hockey expenses, but I've noticed that the prices are going down thanks to companies like All Black Hockey Sticks - Hockey Sticks Just Became Affordable and Bauer/CCM making multiple options for their brands and items.

I just can't see hockey falling, I actually think it has quite high potential since majority of countries don't know about it at the grassroot level yet. If hockey actually got its arse in cheque and started marketing the sport properly, more people will choose it during their kid days, more kids will create more companies for equipment, more competition of equipment will reduce the costs for equipment. Again, all you people are saying hockey will fail due to its expenses, but why not golf? It's just as remote in terms of playing, tee time, and whatnot than hockey is.

You keep talking about golf like it's this big thing...is golf a popular sport among kids where you live? Most kids under 18 I know have never played golf. The large majority of people who play golf are old enough to pay for their own stuff.

 

[S E P H]

You keep talking about golf like it's this big thing...is golf a popular sport among kids where you live? Most kids under 18 I know have never played golf. The large majority of people who play golf are old enough to pay for their own stuff.

From my personal experience, golf doesn't suffer at the grassroot levels that hockey does in USA, England, Scotland, Spain, Wales, Ireland, Japan, South Africa, China, Italy, and Australia. It's probably semi-popular in a lot of the other countries like France, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, and others.

 

[Piestany88]

Looks like Ellis signed for 50 mil , someone translate lol.
Would this be a good contract comparable for Barrie?

 

[Piestany88]

You keep talking about golf like it's this big thing...is golf a popular sport among kids where you live? Most kids under 18 I know have never played golf. The large majority of people who play golf are old enough to pay for their own stuff.

I'll tell you what's surpringly expensive and is popular here is cheer .

Any parents with daughters out there that can relate ?
It's more expensive than hockey

 

[Foppberg]

I'll tell you what's surpringly expensive and is popular here is cheer .

Any parents with daughters out there that can relate ?
It's more expensive than hockey

Cheer?

 

[Tweaky]

Man I miss cheap ice time.

But on topic (or closer anyhow), I bet we see and Asian born and trained (early training...teen years and later will have to be NA/Eur) within the next 10 years. Two consecutive winter Olympics out here are building interest in the sport, and more and more rinks are being built. Not all NHL or International size, and some may not have glass....but it is a start. And as we convince more pros to come out for summer holidays and charity stuff and camps, it will make a big difference.

 

[Ceremony]

As I recall there was an article a year or two back from Matthew Duchene's dad who estimated the cost of his hockey upbringing at about $290,000, although that would admittedly be higher from being a good player going to tournaments and stuff.

 

[Pokecheque]

Looks like Ellis signed for 50 mil , someone translate lol.
Would this be a good contract comparable for Barrie?

No. Completely different types of defensemen, and just because Ellis took a discount doesn't mean Barrie will. In fact, it's almost assured he won't.

 

[Pokecheque]

Oh boy...if ever there was an organization going out of their way to ruin a relationship with a player, it's Montreal with Max Pacioretty. The latest slap wasn't even necessary.

 

[Piestany88]

Cheer?

Yep Cheerleading , it's called "" Cheer" here .
They start off in grade 7 , junior high in school and it goes 10 months , whole school season.

They can get scholarship's though
Crazy big you'd think we were in Florida or Texas lol

The fee for minor hockey here for the year is equal to 1 month cheer

 

[Balthazar]

As I recall there was an article a year or two back from Matthew Duchene's dad who estimated the cost of his hockey upbringing at about $290,000, although that would admittedly be higher from being a good player going to tournaments and stuff.

That's an oddly specific number, in a "I kept track of everything so you can pay me back" kind of way.

That said, 290k is the price of a decent house around here. Certainly not every family that can afford to invest that kind of money on their kid.