2018-19 Utica Comets, Pt. II

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F A N

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You have to seriously wonder about this. Demko and Pettersson were concussed and both flew when scheduled. The medical world has made it clear that concussed people should not fly. Are the training and medical staffs of the Vancouver Canucks that much in the dark or are they all just plain stupid? I mean Demko asked NOT to fly. Is he smarter than those who are supposed to know?

The only other answer is somebody with great power overrules them and says, "You will fly." I would guess the only individuals with that kind of power could only be Benning or Aqualini. I risk the label of "Benning hater", but why would Aquaman be involved in making such a decision? He can't possibly oversee every detail of the day to day operations of the Canucks.

Benning is supposed to know everything that's going on and decisions as serious as this one should involve his input. Am I crazy to think such? If he isn't, then those making this decision should no longer be employed. If he is making this decision, Aquaman has to seriously reconsider this guy's qualifications to hold this position.

Do you seriously think Benning overruled the medical staff? Seriously? You seriously think that the medical staff told Benning or told someone who reported to Benning that Demko shouldn't be fly and Benning is like "Tell Demko to get on the plane."

I think your bias against Benning has been there for everyone here to see. You aren't risking any labels.
 
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DonnyNucker

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Do you seriously think Benning overruled the medical staff? Seriously? You seriously think that the medical staff told Benning or told someone who reported to Benning that Demko shouldn't be fly and Benning is like "Tell Demko to get on the plane."

I think your bias against Benning has been there for everyone here to see. You aren't risking any labels.
Yup - the notion that Benning is over ruling doctors is absurd. Is he so desperate that Demko doesn’t miss a game in Utica? Lol
Utica fans love drama and many Canuck fans hate the current management so much that they invent lies constantly. What a time to be a fan :) hopefully Demko heals quickly. I don’t believe for a second that his recovery was set back weeks due to a flight. Concussions are simply unpredictable
 

Bad Goalie

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Who is in charge of the Canucks? If things like the Demko flight against his wishes, backed up by his people, and supported by concussion medical protocol occurred, where does the blame lie? You tell us. If it's medical personnel only and after this occurred they were not fired, who is to blame?

Eventually as with all businesses the buck stops at the top. Jim Benning is at the top. Directly or indirectly it's on Jim. The only other person with greater control is Aqualini.

You also know Pettersson flew while concussed long after the Demko flight. That means these bozos still haven't changed their concussion protocol. Benning was well aware of the Demko situation and yet weeks later Pettersson is in the air. You go right ahead and follow your leader. This is on him no matter where the actual demand that Demko and Elias board a plane came from. Oh, and you are damned right he cares if Pettersson is not in the lineup!

Demko is still not anywhere close to returning to play. The Vancouver goal tending messiah may never be the same. A concussion cost Mike Richter his career early from a puck to the mask. Demko hasn't even started his career.

We have no idea what the lasting effects of this current concussion might be. He certainly isn't recovering quickly which leans towards the idea he's going to be one of those cases which take some time. When he does return we have no idea how he will respond to the next inevitable puck to the head.

Also have to be concerned with the AHL officiating which leaves goalies open targets by players crashing the net. A 2-minute penalty, when it's called and that's not very often, has zero effect on stopping such behavior. In fact is easy to understand why the 2 minutes would be worth it to take out a star keeper who may be the difference between a team and a win, a playoff berth, or playoff series. Demko was run on numerous occasions last season. Almost every game at least once and in some games I watched several such collisions in several separate games. Almost none resulted in a penalty.

Concussion protocol should be foremost on the minds and practiced behavior of the training staff, medical team, coaching staff, and all management personnel at every level. That protocol should be written, distributed to every one of the members of the aforementioned groups, and made mandatory that every step be followed to the letter. If they think they have done this and judging by the way concussions have recently been mismanaged in these 2 cases by the Canucks in general, some heads should be rolling. Medical procedure in the case of all injuries should be on paper and every player should have them as part of a players' bill of rights.

Call me a drama queen for being factually informed and concerned for the health and welfare of an athlete. I'll wear the title proudly. Glad to see we have Vancouver neurologists and concussion specialists who give us reason to be highly optimistic. Sorry guys, guess we must be dramatically over reacting. Demko's injury occurred in preseason and it's going on November. He has yet to participate in any on ice interactions with his team. As I understand it, he is not even skating on a regular basis.

What will the Comets do? How can we go on? Oh, such drama! WTF?

I could give a **** about his participation at this point in time. My concern is for a complete recovery so this kid may continue to pursue his goal as an NHL goalie. We have no idea whether or not that will happen and we know he will be prone to the same thing all over again as that IS how concussions work. Sitting in the dark for months on end and being susceptible to any bright or flashing lights or sudden glints or flashes of sunlight or artificial light precipitating headaches, dizziness, other issues a la Chris Pronger or leading to early retirement like Mike Richter and Pat LaFontaine just to mention 2. There are many NHL players who have missed long periods of ice time due to their concussion issues, e.g. Sidney Crosby. Taking any liberties with the proper management of this injury can exacerbate the symptoms and extend the recovery time. It is that simple. Rushing players back can also increase the likelihood of recurring symptoms and also make the person more susceptible to another one.

Oh, and it is a fact that air flight is to be avoided by persons with concussion symptoms due to the direct fact that symptoms may be worsened and recovery time may be extended. Does it always occur? Nope, but the warning is there because it often does and thus erring on the side of caution is highly advisable. Questioning this and then wishing a player a quick recovery is preposterous if not outright ignorant.

I speak from vast personal experience. I have had 4 diagnosed and according to the doctors certain tests show I likely had more earlier in life before the medical diagnosis was more detailed and easier to arrive at due to improved technology. Believe me, you don't want to mess with this injury.
 
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Motte and Bailey

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I’m surprised most goalies aren’t concussed all the time with the millions of flying pucks shot at them over their lifetime.

This is so sad to hear, if I was Demko or his parents I would be looking for answers too.

But Pettersson went on a flight right after and he’s fine. So it’s not a black and white thing. Everyone is different and every concussion is different. What if he didn’t fly what if they waited till the next week to clear him to fly and he suffers a setback in training? You never know with these things. I hope it doesn’t change anything about the way Thatcher plays or god forbid his wonderful personality off the ice.
 

Bad Goalie

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I’m surprised most goalies aren’t concussed all the time with the millions of flying pucks shot at them over their lifetime.

This is so sad to hear, if I was Demko or his parents I would be looking for answers too.

But Pettersson went on a flight right after and he’s fine. So it’s not a black and white thing. Everyone is different and every concussion is different. What if he didn’t fly what if they waited till the next week to clear him to fly and he suffers a setback in training? You never know with these things. I hope it doesn’t change anything about the way Thatcher plays or god forbid his wonderful personality off the ice.

"But Pettersson went on a flight right after and he appears to be fine fine." I fixed that for you Doc.

"Everyone is different and every concussion is different."
This means that people can appear to be fine and then later on an innocent little thing like sudden exposure to a lot of bright lights, exposure to flashing lights like an ambulance, police vehicle, fire engine, or strobe lights, a bump that changes one's direction abruptly, extreme or blaring noise, a jerking action on the neck causing the head to snap back and forward, lack of sleep, and other things can trigger concussion symptoms all over again. Can you see how a hockey player may encounter any of these situations? Those issues will occur and that is black and white. You have to tread lightly with a concussion victim and that person has to be monitored on a steady basis even when he is symptom free.

Oh, and don't be surprised. You would be correct. Most goalies have been concussed and most more than once, but it has only been recent history in which they have received more treatment than a night or 2 off and an aspirin regimen for the headaches. "Tough it out. You'll be okay. Besides your team needs you. You don't want to let them down do you?"

Read Ken Dryden's book, "The Game" or "The Goaltender's Union" by Greg Oliver & Richard Kamchen. There's a lot more, but they all go into the treatment of injuries to keepers, especially the head injuries. Loss of a few teeth (chicklets, funny huh) and 30 or 40 stitches from a puck to the face (it's your head) meant a 30 minute delay and then they rolled him back out there with enough novocaine to allow him no feeling in his face. Yeah, we all had them at all levels of the game from beer leagues to the NHL and everywhere in between.
 
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Motte and Bailey

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"But Pettersson went on a flight right after and he appears to be fine fine." I fixed that for you Doc.

"Everyone is different and every concussion is different."
This means that people can appear to be fine and then later on an innocent little thing like sudden exposure to a lot of bright lights, exposure to flashing lights like an ambulance, police vehicle, fire engine, or strobe lights, a bump that changes one's direction abruptly, extreme or blaring noise, a jerking action on the neck causing the head to snap back and forward, lack of sleep, and other things can trigger concussion symptoms all over again. Can you see how a hockey player may encounter any of these situations? Those issues will occur and that is black and white. You have to tread lightly with a concussion victim and that person has to be monitored on a steady basis even when he is symptom free.

Where do you draw the line? If a doctor says you can fly, how long are you supposed wait until you fly?

It’s easy to say “be careful” when you’re not the one making the call because it’s not clear whether another day or another week or another month without airplane travel would’ve prevented this setback.

Another possibility is that Demko was absolutely fine to fly and his fear or flying with a concussion triggered a nocebo effect which is the opposite of placebo, and that itself caused his concussion symptoms to worsen.
 

VanJack

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Apparently Demko suffered a concussion after being hit with a shot to his mask during warmup in a pre-season in Salt Lake City. I'm sorry, but how can a goalie suffer a concussion from being hit with a puck to the mask? There's lots of goalies now who actually use their masks and helmets to stop the puck. The technology of goalie helmets-masks is that far advanced.

There has to be something else happening here. Does Demko have some sort of pre-existing concussion history? It's a huge red flag for me if a goalie suffers a concussion from the shot to his mask. Because unfortunately it's going happen a lot to every goalie, including Demko.
 

F A N

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Who is in charge of the Canucks? If things like the Demko flight against his wishes, backed up by his people, and supported by concussion medical protocol occurred, where does the blame lie? You tell us. If it's medical personnel only and after this occurred they were not fired, who is to blame?

Eventually as with all businesses the buck stops at the top. Jim Benning is at the top. Directly or indirectly it's on Jim. The only other person with greater control is Aqualini.

You haven't answered the question. Do you seriously believe Jim Benning overruled the medical staff and forced Demko and Pettersson to fly? That's what you were suggesting, so back it up.

To answer your question, I would blame the medical staff. If my memory serves me correctly, after Hodgson's back injury was MISS diagnosed, nothing happened until Linden made changes. If the Canucks' medical staff is incompetent, I hope they make changes. I'm with you on that one.

In reality, it's hard for GMs to evaluate their medical staff. They aren't medically trained. They probably don't spend any time reading medical reports to know how thorough they are. You think Gillis is incompetent because he trusted his medical staff's diagnosis of Hodgson? Do you know how many medical opinions Hodgson got before he was correctly diagnosed and Gillis' comments over the whole ordeal?

You know why medical malpractice cases are very difficult to win? Because all a doctor needs to do is follow certain procedures. They can completely miss something. As long as they checked and didn't find anything or made a referral to a specialist they are in the clear because it's hard to prove that "they should have seen" when they did the checks/tests.

I'm sorry to hear about your concussions. But it sounded you received good treatment and I am glad. But I can tell you from experience that if you tell your doctor that you hit your head and soon developed headaches, nausea, and vomiting, the chances are that you would be diagnosed with a concussion. Conversely, if Demko or Pettersson told the doctor that he doesn't have any headaches or nausea/vomiting at this point they might be cleared to fly.
 

orcatown

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Game Saturday against Syracuse

Liked

Biega - had to play extra time after the injury to Sautner and was critical in the late going to hold the lead. Plays a hard game and this is what the Comet back end needs. Biega is real good player at this level

Kolbakov - had to make some outstanding saves to get the win. Both goalies were good in a loosely played game.

Archibald - usual solid effort. Important both ways

Jasek - by far his best game. Played center and showed very good speed and touch with the puck. Hopefully can build on this and start providing some offense from the center position

Bancks - did what he does. Played solid defense and helped defend the lead. 0 goals and 2 assists in 8 games indicates you can't expect much else.

MacEwen - showed nice touch on his goal and was physical. Beat up Gaunce's brother late in the game so may be liable for suspension???? MacEwen has some very good periods of play but at other times kind of disappears. Still needs to get into the pro groove where you work the play and stay in the system throughout the game. (little like Virtanen and Gaudette in this aspect). This will help him get hopefully into better plus/minus territory

Sifers - best game to date. Got to the play quicker and eliminated people from the play better. More pro-active in this game.

Bad

McMaster - couldn't get much of anything done. Out on the perimeter and showed no ability to penetrate. Looked poor on the PP.

Kero - whole lot of nothing all the time.

Others

Joulevi - looked good on the PP and defended the 2 on 1 better. Still needs more intensity and more willingness to get on the body. Can't be all about finesse. Got nailed on a hard check to the head in the late going (of course no call) and looked a little groggy going to the bench.

Lind - some very good periods of play, Lead the rally leading to the 4th goal at the end of the second. Very good puck movement showing he does see the ice well. Missed a chance to score and still needs to improve his shot. Lind must get stronger and hold his ground better. Also needs a step or two to get the separation needed to make plays

Dahlen - produced a couple of good chances but otherwise not a factor. With all the penalties in the third didn't get much ice time.

Brisebois - is a lot more solid than last year and holding his own in his own end.

Saunter - didn't see him after the first. Took a couple of hard checks in the center ice area when he was dumping the puck into the offensive end so might have been dinged there. Too bad as he was playing well.

Boucher - should have been credited with another goal but the net came off. Got injured when he was in a knee on knee hit by Yan. PP tanked once Boucher was out. Will be sorely missed if out long.

Not Playing: Gadjovich, Blujus, Gaunce (injured), Darcy, Palmu, Hamilton (injured), Chatfield, Graham
 

Motte and Bailey

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It must be well past your beddy-bye time by now, no? This is an incredibly dumb comment, even for you.

Can you prove that it wasn’t nocebo? No? Then it’s perfectly within the realm of possibilities and your incredibly disrespectful response is without merit.
 
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Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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And people wonder why the only ones left here are "UticaHockey", "go comets", and myself. It is impossible to have an actual discussion with people who are determined to defend every move made by this organization and they will construct straw men, employ "alternate facts", and flat out make up shit designed to frustrate and cause folks to just disengage. The last one was the straw to break my back. You can't be concussed by a puck that hits the mask because they are simply made too good today. I guess all the current keepers to have suffered such a malady are making it up.

Good bye. Fair well. Adios. Hasta la vista. Ciao. This discussion is beyond my willingness to engage. I have "suffered fools" long enough. (This saying aimed at no one ought to stimulate some more derogatory remarks.)
 

go comets

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I don't think there was any reason to be in a hurry to send Demko down. He wasn't cleared and could not play anyway..... And Demko is still on Vancouver's roster as he can't be sent down till healthy.

They bend over backwards for Gagner and the future player in goal gets told to fly after asking to wait a few days. Weird.......
 

F A N

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Aug 12, 2005
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And people wonder why the only ones left here are "UticaHockey", "go comets", and myself. It is impossible to have an actual discussion with people who are determined to defend every move made by this organization and they will construct straw men, employ "alternate facts", and flat out make up **** designed to frustrate and cause folks to just disengage. The last one was the straw to break my back. You can't be concussed by a puck that hits the mask because they are simply made too good today. I guess all the current keepers to have suffered such a malady are making it up.

Good bye. Fair well. Adios. Hasta la vista. Ciao. This discussion is beyond my willingness to engage. I have "suffered fools" long enough. (This saying aimed at no one ought to stimulate some more derogatory remarks.)

Why do you take comments from people who think you can't be concussed by a puck to the mask so seriously?

Even though I get into jabs with you all the time, I and along with many other Canucks fans, clearly appreciate your posts here. There are a lot of stupid people online. As for people who defend the organization, well you can always post on the Canucks threads, there will be plenty of Benning haters who shares your opinion.
 

krutovsdonut

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Sep 25, 2016
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And people wonder why the only ones left here are "UticaHockey", "go comets", and myself. It is impossible to have an actual discussion with people who are determined to defend every move made by this organization and they will construct straw men, employ "alternate facts", and flat out make up **** designed to frustrate and cause folks to just disengage. The last one was the straw to break my back. You can't be concussed by a puck that hits the mask because they are simply made too good today. I guess all the current keepers to have suffered such a malady are making it up.

Good bye. Fair well. Adios. Hasta la vista. Ciao. This discussion is beyond my willingness to engage. I have "suffered fools" long enough. (This saying aimed at no one ought to stimulate some more derogatory remarks.)

dude i value your comments here but maybe you do need to take a breather. this concussion ranting of yours is out of character. i have hesitated to launch into that subject.

for pettersson there are a number of reasons why flying on the team plane is by far the most desirable way to get someone home after a concussion and overrides the typical concerns about flying. it's actually not atypical for a pro-team physician to keep a concussed player with the team on the road so they can ride the team plane home eventually rather than head straight home commercial. as for demko, i do not know how many days after the injury he flew or what his symptoms were beforehand, but i am assuming they followed standard medical procedure which would have a very low level of concern about such a flight provided the patient has not had severe recent symptoms and has no other condition or illness like a sinus infection or cold.

a few thoughts for you -- team jets have fully reclining wide seats and generally fly with the oxygen recirculation level set for high passenger load, which, combined with a very small passenger load, means an o2 rich environment. many teams modify that system to boost o2 level further. they also will fly at lower altitudes with an injured player so they can maintain a cabin pressure closer to sea level. they also have a team physician onboard.

personally, i'd rather fly home concussed on a team jet than drive home, everytime. the jet is way l more comfortable.

or, to put it another way, if your concerns were justified there would be pro athletes all over north america stuck in hotel rooms in strange cities after being concussed on the road.
 

DonnyNucker

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dude i value your comments here but maybe you do need to take a breather. this concussion ranting of yours is out of character. i have hesitated to launch into that subject.

for pettersson there are a number of reasons why flying on the team plane is by far the most desirable way to get someone home after a concussion and overrides the typical concerns about flying. it's actually not atypical for a pro-team physician to keep a concussed player with the team on the road so they can ride the team plane home eventually rather than head straight home commercial. as for demko, i do not know how many days after the injury he flew or what his symptoms were beforehand, but i am assuming they followed standard medical procedure which would have a very low level of concern about such a flight provided the patient has not had severe recent symptoms and has no other condition or illness like a sinus infection or cold.

a few thoughts for you -- team jets have fully reclining wide seats and generally fly with the oxygen recirculation level set for high passenger load, which, combined with a very small passenger load, means an o2 rich environment. many teams modify that system to boost o2 level further. they also will fly at lower altitudes with an injured player so they can maintain a cabin pressure closer to sea level. they also have a team physician onboard.

personally, i'd rather fly home concussed on a team jet than drive home, everytime. the jet is way l more comfortable.

or, to put it another way, if your concerns were justified there would be pro athletes all over north america stuck in hotel rooms in strange cities after being concussed on the road.
Interesting information regarding the teams planes. I’ve flown with concussions in the past and haven’t had worsening symptoms. Perhaps this is just bad luck. What do all of these NFL players do after receiving concussions on the road? Does half the team sit in a hotel room for weeks?
 

Guardian452

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Jun 10, 2011
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Apparently Demko suffered a concussion after being hit with a shot to his mask during warmup in a pre-season in Salt Lake City. I'm sorry, but how can a goalie suffer a concussion from being hit with a puck to the mask? There's lots of goalies now who actually use their masks and helmets to stop the puck. The technology of goalie helmets-masks is that far advanced.

There has to be something else happening here. Does Demko have some sort of pre-existing concussion history? It's a huge red flag for me if a goalie suffers a concussion from the shot to his mask. Because unfortunately it's going happen a lot to every goalie, including Demko.

It's actually become a very common occurrence, so much that the NHL is testing the design of goalie masks and looking at ways to improve them. Carey Price, Matt Murray, Jonathan Bernier, Al Montoya, Michael Hutchinson, Chad Johnson, Steve Mason and Mike Condon all were concussed by shots to the mask within the past year. What's more troubling is almost half occurred during practice rather than games.

By the way, goalie mask technology hasn't changed much in 20 years.
 

Foundational Player

Benning the Incompetent
Mar 27, 2008
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And people wonder why the only ones left here are "UticaHockey", "go comets", and myself. It is impossible to have an actual discussion with people who are determined to defend every move made by this organization and they will construct straw men, employ "alternate facts", and flat out make up **** designed to frustrate and cause folks to just disengage. The last one was the straw to break my back. You can't be concussed by a puck that hits the mask because they are simply made too good today. I guess all the current keepers to have suffered such a malady are making it up.

Good bye. Fair well. Adios. Hasta la vista. Ciao. This discussion is beyond my willingness to engage. I have "suffered fools" long enough. (This saying aimed at no one ought to stimulate some more derogatory remarks.)

Bad Goalie, your comments and insight are greatly appreciated and you obviously have a great understanding of the game, especially from a goaltenders perspective. I hope a few bad apples who abide by the Benning doctrine to the bitter end don't sway you to leave HF boards. It is baffling at times how some can ignore facts, reason and just plain common sense but alas this is the world in which we live.

Yeah, the comment about goalies not being concussed because its 2018 is just completely out to lunch.

VanJack have you ever played hockey? Are you aware that players aren't using wooden sticks anymore and even a toothpick like Pettersson can rip the puck with the best of them. Yeah, guys shouldn't be concussed when a puck hits them in the mask, like WTF?? Get a clue.

Best part being that Benning is exempt from any liability regarding any decisions made on behalf of the players. I mean Demko is upset that he had to fly, his agent is upset and yet it must be Demko's weak mental makeup.....yeah that must the the problem alright. What a crock of sh*t! Blame anyone but our beloved, dear leader.....god help this franchise.

I mean he is only the General Manager, why would he be involved with such decisions? I do recall (I can't find the quote but remember it being mentioned on TSN 1040), not long after the Linden fiasco, Benning himself mentioned that he was going to take a bigger role on the medical side of things. Coincidence, of course not!

Anyway Bad Goalie, just want to mention that posters like myself value your input and it would truly be a shame not to have you post on these boards moving forward.
 

DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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Bad Goalie, your comments and insight are greatly appreciated and you obviously have a great understanding of the game, especially from a goaltenders perspective. I hope a few bad apples who abide by the Benning doctrine to the bitter end don't sway you to leave HF boards. It is baffling at times how some can ignore facts, reason and just plain common sense but alas this is the world in which we live.

Yeah, the comment about goalies not being concussed because its 2018 is just completely out to lunch.

VanJack have you ever played hockey? Are you aware that players aren't using wooden sticks anymore and even a toothpick like Pettersson can rip the puck with the best of them. Yeah, guys shouldn't be concussed when a puck hits them in the mask, like WTF?? Get a clue.

Best part being that Benning is exempt from any liability regarding any decisions made on behalf of the players. I mean Demko is upset that he had to fly, his agent is upset and yet it must be Demko's weak mental makeup.....yeah that must the the problem alright. What a crock of sh*t! Blame anyone but our beloved, dear leader.....god help this franchise.

I mean he is only the General Manager, why would he be involved with such decisions? I do recall (I can't find the quote but remember it being mentioned on TSN 1040), not long after the Linden fiasco, Benning himself mentioned that he was going to take a bigger role on the medical side of things. Coincidence, of course not!

Anyway Bad Goalie, just want to mention that posters like myself value your input and it would truly be a shame not to have you post on these boards moving forward.
Lol “a few bad apples” scaring BG away. I don’t think it’s outrageous to question someone when they make a claim that Benning chose to override doctors and force to Demko to fly. That’s a pretty serious accusation. Agree regarding the fact goalies get concussions from shots all the time. Not sure what that poster was talking about. Hopefully everyone’s feelings have been sufficiently managed
 
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Nomobo

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Interesting information regarding the teams planes. I’ve flown with concussions in the past and haven’t had worsening symptoms. Perhaps this is just bad luck. What do all of these NFL players do after receiving concussions on the road? Does half the team sit in a hotel room for weeks?
I flew two days after being in a head on with an eighteen wheeler while on a motorcycle. No after effects except for my heart skipping a couple beats when I see an approaching truck.
Everyone is different.
 

DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
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I flew two days after being in a head on with an eighteen wheeler while on a motorcycle. No after effects except for my heart skipping a couple beats when I see an approaching truck.
Everyone is different.
The only time I had a doctor tell me not to fly was when I had a severe head injury...facial and skull fractures etc. The reason being, I had a bubble of oxygen in my brain and there was concerns of an aneurysm. Regular concussions, never been told not to fly
 
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