Line Combos: 2018-19 Starting Roster II

[Maukkis]

Last one hit a thousand. Continue from here.

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[Mortimer Snerd]

Last one hit a thousand. Continue from here.

Thought post count didn't matter on the new software. Oh well.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

@KingBogo

As a starting point do you really think Armia was going to get a better defenseman back than Myers? Armia was a 29 point bottom 6 winger. Myers is a 4/5 defenseman and a #4 on our team. No team gives up a top 4 defenseman for a bottom 6 winger. I'll also add that at this point in time MP is a far more important player for the Jets than Armia was. IMO Armia's value was relatively low, especially for a team getting tight to the cap. As it turns out he was likely looking for approx double what the Jets are planing on paying to fill his spot with one of Petan, Dano, Lemieux or KV. IMO Armia was used as an asset, except rather than for a pick or player he was used for cap space. His value to the Jets was Mason's cap hit, plus the cost savings of replacing him with a cheaper option. So in total he was worth approx $5 M in cap space to the Jets. IMO not a bad use of an asset for a team as deep as the Jets.

Not an established one, no. A good prospect though. If not, then we should have kept him. I only point out the possibility of getting something for him as a consideration.

Myers is not a 4/5 defenseman. He just isn't. He is a 5/6 and that is a significant difference. He is not a top 4 D.

Armia's value was his forechecking and defensive play, not his scoring ... although I still think he has more offense in him. It may never come out.

I understand that he was used to gain cap space. Obviously, since he was payment for another team to assume cap hit. The Jets depth is entirely irrelevant. It is a fallacy around here that because you are rich you can get careless with assets.

Myers is overrated. He is not worth his cap hit. He will not be worth his next contract. I hope it is with someone else. Perreault is very good, but aging. I suspect he is declining. After that gets confirmed we will no longer be able to get anything for him. Either would have brought back valuable assets. You can't leave that out of the equation.

 

[KingBogo]

@KingBogo


Not an established one, no. A good prospect though. If not, then we should have kept him. I only point out the possibility of getting something for him as a consideration.

Myers is not a 4/5 defenseman. He just isn't. He is a 5/6 and that is a significant difference. He is not a top 4 D.

Armia's value was his forechecking and defensive play, not his scoring ... although I still think he has more offense in him. It may never come out.

I understand that he was used to gain cap space. Obviously, since he was payment for another team to assume cap hit. The Jets depth is entirely irrelevant. It is a fallacy around here that because you are rich you can get careless with assets.

Myers is overrated. He is not worth his cap hit. He will not be worth his next contract. I hope it is with someone else. Perreault is very good, but aging. I suspect he is declining. After that gets confirmed we will no longer be able to get anything for him. Either would have brought back valuable assets. You can't leave that out of the equation.

I disagree on the value you put on Myers. I agree he is over paid at $5.5 M, but few teams would have 2 RHD better than him. Having the luxury of playing him on the bottom pairing over Poolman makes us a stronger team than having Armia play bottom 6 wing over one of Dano/Petan/KV. MP may be aging but for now he is an important part of the team and a significant play driver. Sometimes assets decline, sometimes assets are used to gain cap space and sometimes they are used at the TD to fill a hole. I'm just more open to spending them when you a top contender in win now mode. Contention windows are limited and actual players help you win a cup.

Saying that Myers over to LHD needs to end. Just a poor fit.

 

[Neuf]

Liked the roslovic Ehlers connection. Maybe Connor on that line, unless they try Laine.?

29-55-26
81-28-27
85-18-56
9-17-13

Probably buries Little too much, but he could get pp minutes...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I disagree on the value you put on Myers. I agree he is over paid at $5.5 M, but few teams would have 2 RHD better than him. Having the luxury of playing him on the bottom pairing over Poolman makes us a stronger team than having Armia play bottom 6 wing over one of Dano/Petan/KV. MP may be aging but for now he is an important part of the team and a significant play driver. Sometimes assets decline, sometimes assets are used to gain cap space and sometimes they are used at the TD to fill a hole. I'm just more open to spending them when you a top contender in win now mode. Contention windows are limited and actual players help you win a cup.

Saying that Myers over to LHD needs to end. Just a poor fit.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Myers. He is a very good 3rd pair player, but his D zone play betrays him on the 2nd pair.

If I am correct about MP declining then you are stating what he was, not what he is.

It is not a law of physics that contention windows are limited. They are limited by poor asset management.

Agree about Myers at LHD. Even if he successfully adjusted to the other side, which he hasn't yet, I don't think he is a good fit with Buff. And, as I've said elsewhere, I also don't think he belongs in the top 4.

Just to clarify, I don't hate Myers. I like his offense. I think he defends well against the rush. His D play begins to break down once the opposition gets possession in our zone. But playing 2nd pair, he is facing faster, more skilled opponents. He is less effective against the rush and gets hemmed in more often. At least that is what I see happening.

I think his scoring will get him a bigger contract than he deserves. Bigger than any 3rd pair D should get. Bigger than we can afford. So we are only talking about Myers for 1 year (I hope). I'm hoping that last year was not a fluke and that he can stay reasonably healthy with his hip surgery behind him. But all this talk of his value assumes health. If he reverts to his earlier form and misses large parts of the season, his value is further reduced.

 

[10Ducky10]

KC -Scheif -Ehlers
Lemieux/Dano/Vaseline-Little -Wheeler
MP- Roslo- Laine
Copper -Lowry -Tanev

JMo -Trouba
Kuli -Buff
Morrow/Chiarot- Myers

Helle Brossoit

Poolman and Niku in the minors and a hard look at Lemmy and Vaseline as LWers with Little and Wheeler.
Scheif, Wheeler and Laine on different lines makes it hard for other teams to match up against. The CLT is a given.

 

[Maukkis]

I disagree on the value you put on Myers. I agree he is over paid at $5.5 M, but few teams would have 2 RHD better than him. Having the luxury of playing him on the bottom pairing over Poolman makes us a stronger team than having Armia play bottom 6 wing over one of Dano/Petan/KV. MP may be aging but for now he is an important part of the team and a significant play driver. Sometimes assets decline, sometimes assets are used to gain cap space and sometimes they are used at the TD to fill a hole. I'm just more open to spending them when you a top contender in win now mode. Contention windows are limited and actual players help you win a cup.

Saying that Myers over to LHD needs to end. Just a poor fit.

Based on Sean Tierney's viz of blended WAR stats... (EW, Corsica & CMHockey's models all in one)

ANA
BOS
CAR
CBJ
CHI
COL
DAL
FLA
MIN
MTL (Weber doesn't qualify due to low GP, but he absolutely smokes Myers in comparison)
NSH
NYI
OTT (currently, this pretty much means 'SJ')
PHI
PIT
STL
TB
VAN
VGK
WPG
WSH

...had two better RHDs than Myers. 21 teams, that is.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Interesting that Paul Edmonds this AM has Vesalainen not making the team... Instead, Lemieux.

 

[10Ducky10]

I'd agree. Lemieux has showed enough that he is ready.
I don't think Poolman makes the team either.
Does anyone know Petan's expected return. He not being here allows Maurice to carry 2 extra forwards and with Poolman and Niku in the minors, 7 D men.
Once Petan returns I expect one of Lemmy or Vaseline to go down.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Vesa needs time in the AHL. Hopefully they give him a chance on the PP tonight to get off his one-timer.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think Vesa needs time playing big minutes in the AHL. Hes been ok but he needs some confidence in his game. He probably has another game here to show he can stay but he kind of reminds of Poolparty in Edmonton at 19, he has the talent but it wasn't just there yet.

 

[Halberdier]

If I am correct about MP declining then you are stating what he was, not what he is.

I seriously do hope you are completely wrong on MP declining, but preseason games (I know, I know) have made me worried a bit.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I seriously do hope you are completely wrong on MP declining, but preseason games (I know, I know) have made me worried a bit.

I hope so too. I love his game. But it showed the last half season plus PO's as well as pre-season. My thinking is that his style of play has worn him down. The effects of all those injuries is somewhat cumulative. Just guessing at this point. We'll soon see.

 

[Lars65]

I'm hoping with a reduced role, and with it ice time, that MP can get healthy and adjust. Maybe not what he once was, but a reasonably priced vet.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

I kind of hope that the Jets hire Doctor Cautious as team doctor. Be far more liberal with giving players time off for healing and avoiding unnecessary injuries. Maybe average 3 forwards injured a night.

I can think of a few players that would benefit. A serious injury to old man wheeler or buff Could have serious implications for the rest of their contracts. You could see players buying in as they could potentially extend their careers a few years.

Otherwise the depth is completely wasted.

It would be interesting to see how many players have been seriously injured over the years because they were playing games they should have taken off.

 

[Zhamnov10]

This is how it will start,maybe the D is wrong but I hope Maurice figures out Myers on LD doesn’t work and takes Myers strongest part of his game away tight turns to the right then skates out of trouble.Plus I really don’t like any combination of remaining D to fill out the bottom pair.He might shorten the bench at times and that’s when Myers moves up beside Buff.

Connor/Scheifele/Wheeler
Perreault/Little/Laine
Vesalainen/Roslovic/Ehlers
Copp/Lowry/Tanev

Morrissey/Trouba
Morrow/Byfuglien
Kulikov/Myers

Chariot/Dano/Petan

First call ups Poolman/Lemieux

 

[KingBogo]

This is how it will start,maybe the D is wrong but I hope Maurice figures out Myers on LD doesn’t work and takes Myers strongest part of his game away tight turns to the right then skates out of trouble.Plus I really don’t like any combination of remaining D to fill out the bottom pair.He might shorten the bench at times and that’s when Myers moves up beside Buff.

Connor/Scheifele/Wheeler
Perreault/Little/Laine
Vesalainen/Roslovic/Ehlers
Copp/Lowry/Tanev

Morrissey/Trouba
Morrow/Byfuglien
Kulikov/Myers

Chariot/Dano/Petan

First call ups Poolman/Lemieux

It was mentioned on 1290 that on Monday Myers and Maurice had a long discussion and then the next day at practice Myers was back on the right side. I think the experiment is over though I can see it pulled out late in games we are down.

 

[KingBogo]

I kind of hope that the Jets hire Doctor Cautious as team doctor. Be far more liberal with giving players time off for healing and avoiding unnecessary injuries. Maybe average 3 forwards injured a night.

I can think of a few players that would benefit. A serious injury to old man wheeler or buff Could have serious implications for the rest of their contracts. You could see players buying in as they could potentially extend their careers a few years.

Otherwise the depth is completely wasted.

It would be interesting to see how many players have been seriously injured over the years because they were playing games they should have taken off.

Players play. It is what they do. Teams need their players playing to win games. The margin at the end of the season is often very close, and a game lost on October is the same as losing one in March. Players get the best possible medical attention along the way. Also interesting you singled out "old man" Wheeler one of the most fit and certainly most durable player on the team. He'd be one of the last guys I'd be worried about needing a night off.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Vesalainen is a big question mark for me right now. I think he's proven himself to be a final cut, never thought it'd get this interesting.

Petan, Dano and Lemieux already made a case for a roster spot. Vesalainen now too.

 

[puck stoppa]

Vesalainen is a big question mark for me right now. I think he's proven himself to be a final cut, never thought it'd get this interesting.

Petan, Dano and Lemieux already made a case for a roster spot. Vesalainen now too.

Not many thought this in summer, some were saying he needs time in Europe. I said he's ready and he is, but I'd still over ripen him like they did Roslo and are Niku. He may end up being the piece we add at trade deadline instead of a trade if he plays well with the Moose.

 

[Whileee]

This preseason has illustrated how much depth the Jets have in their organization at forward. Vesalainen, Dano and Lemieux have pushed hard for the 12th forward slot, and Petan probably had the inside track to begin the camp. But they also have had good showings from a few other forwards.

On D, Niku has been quite strong. Stanley and Nogier show that they have work to do, but have improved.

 

[Fire Chevy]

Not many thought this in summer, some were saying he needs time in Europe. I said he's ready and he is, but I'd still over ripen him like they did Roslo and are Niku. He may end up being the piece we add at trade deadline instead of a trade if he plays well with the Moose.

I’d agree for Vesa give him top line minutes in the A and get a season under his belt The cap crunch is happening and having him for 3 more years on a elc will be huge and I really hope they don’t split up 28-27 they look great together speed kills and Roslovic really impressed me how quickly he’s adapting to playing center and is very good off reading ehlers

 

[Whileee]

One reason why Vesalainen might have an inside track on a roster spot over Dano, Lemieux and Petan is that he's much earlier in his development trajectory and likely has more potential to improve and become a more high impact player as he gets familiar with the NHL style. Dano, Petan and to a lesser degree Lemieux are likely playing closer to their peak potential, while we can perhaps expect much more out of Vesalainen as the season progresses. So, if he's close to the same level now, it's not a bad idea for Maurice to keep him, anticipating a more productive player as the season progresses.

 

[GaryPoppins]

Get ready for Brendan Lemieux to make this team out of camp..