2018-19 Roster talk; Part three

[Flyerfan13]

For those with a the athletic access a great Charlie o'conner article...it basically says Myers and nak should get a recall to see where they r in their development. We should root for improvement in the young guys on the flyers (patrick,lindblom,provy,tk) the second half of the season. Neuvirth and Macdonald should go to ir and varone sent back to the phantoms.

A guide: How should the Flyers and their fans approach the...

 

[Striiker]

Giroux should play center.

He's proved beyond all doubt that he's still a great C and all the idiots who said he couldn't play center anymore were wrong

BUT

It might be better for him to be on the wing right now because the top line carrying is the only way we can win and Couturier>JVR as a linemate for Giroux, but Couts needs to be C of any line he's on, so G to wing makes it possible for them to be together.

 

[deadhead]

Myers and NAK will get the recall, my suspicion is that bodies start moving out after the Allstar break.

But if you want to get any value for say Weise, you need to keep him in the lineup as long as he's playing well, he could help a playoff team that needs depth in their bottom six, say a 4th rd pick and retain a few dollars?

People may hate MacDonald, but he's been decent since he returned to the lineup, and veteran defenseman always have value this time of year (due to injuries mounting up) - retain half his salary and there might be a market, say a 5th rd pick?

Weal needs to play to have value, same with Raffl, you're already sitting Weal/Varone each night.

Once Morin is ready to play in March, they'll need to open another roster spot, Folin probably has a market as a 6th/7th D-man insurance policy.
Hagg, if he was traded, is more likely a June deal, too inexperienced for most playoff teams.

So I see a gradual progression over the next month and a half, veterans get moved out and LHV players recalled.

 

[baudib1]

He's proved beyond all doubt that he's still a great C and all the idiots who said he couldn't play center anymore were wrong

BUT

It might be better for him to be on the wing right now because the top line carrying is the only way we can win and Couturier>JVR as a linemate for Giroux, but Couts needs to be C of any line he's on, so G to wing makes it possible for them to be together.

I've given up on caring about right now. Going forward, and not counting getting Hughes, the best way to turn this team around is to go Giroux-Couturier-Frost-Patrick at C. Barring a trade for Seguin, the impact additions you can bring in are wingers (Panarin, Stone, Tarasenko) and the best prospects after Frost are also wingers (Allison, Ratcliffe, NAK, Farabee).

The best center UFA is Duchene, who I like but he's not on the same level as Panarin-Stone.

As I said, when you look at matchups issues, the best teams absolutely murder the Flyers at 2C if it's not Couturier and I don't expect that to be different next year.

 

[KrazyKat]

I've given up on caring about right now. Going forward, and not counting getting Hughes, the best way to turn this team around is to go Giroux-Couturier-Frost-Patrick at C. Barring a trade for Seguin, the impact additions you can bring in are wingers (Panarin, Stone, Tarasenko) and the best prospects after Frost are also wingers (Allison, Ratcliffe, NAK, Farabee).

The best center UFA is Duchene, who I like but he's not on the same level as Panarin-Stone.

As I said, when you look at matchups issues, the best teams absolutely murder the Flyers at 2C if it's not Couturier and I don't expect that to be different next year.

The way we are playing we probably will get Hughes. If we do... do u trade someone? Or move frost to wing?

I would trade JVR, move Frost to wing.
Then sign Stone


Giroux—Hughes—Konecny
Frost—Couturier—Stone
Lindblom—Patrick—Voracek
Laughton—Vorobyev—Aubé Kubel

Provorov—Myers
Sanheim—Gostisbehere
Morin—Gudas


This would be a very young team. With a lot of room to grow. This would also mean Voracek would be expendable going forward. Maybe Lindblom too. As we have Farabee, Obrein, Allison, waiting to come up.

 

[baudib1]

Frost should play center.

Look, I like Vorobyev, but who cares. There's no earthly way that Vorobyev is better for this team or any team than JVR.

Literally everyone, while trying to project future lineups, is making awkward contortions like eliminating JVR or putting Frost and Giroux on a wing to avoid moving Patrick down to 4C. Why? 4C is an important role, we should have good 4th line wingers regardless of what happens, and there's no rule that your 4C has to be a low draft pick who overachieved to get here. We don't need to make suboptimal 2nd/3rd lines to carve out room for Vorobyev or keep Patrick higher in the lineup than he should be.
Patrick can still be on PP1. Hell, he should probably be on the PK too.

 

[KrazyKat]

Frost should play center.

Look, I like Vorobyev, but who cares. There's no earthly way that Vorobyev is better for this team or any team than JVR.

Literally everyone, while trying to project future lineups, is making awkward contortions like eliminating JVR or putting Frost and Giroux on a wing to avoid moving Patrick down to 4C. Why? 4C is an important role, we should have good 4th line wingers regardless of what happens, and there's no rule that your 4C has to be a low draft pick who overachieved to get here. He should still be on PP1.

I believe that Patrick is better than that.And in the future we will see that. There is no way he should be on the 4th line. This guy is a almost a number 1 pick, we were so lucky to snag. No way he should be on the 4th line. When we were playing good hockey and went on a 10 game winning streak. Patrick was on fire. This year EVERYONE looks bad. Patrick being a young player, just sucks for him.

JVR on the other hand, will be taking spots away from Lindblom. I dont want to trade Lindblom or Vorobyev. I think those guys can become great hockey players. JVR is only going to get slower, and i dont want to watch a slow team. Look at tampa bay for example. JVR would fit best on there 4th line. Im not paying big $ for a 4th line forward.

 

[KrazyKat]

I believe that Patrick is better than that.And in the future we will see that. There is no way he should be on the 4th line. This guy is a almost a number 1 pick, we were so lucky to snag. No way he should be on the 4th line. When we were playing good hockey and went on a 10 game winning streak. Patrick was on fire. This year EVERYONE looks bad. Patrick being a young player, just sucks for him.

JVR on the other hand, will be taking spots away from Lindblom. I dont want to trade Lindblom or Vorobyev. I think those guys can become great hockey players. JVR is only going to get slower, and i dont want to watch a slow team. Look at tampa bay for example. JVR would fit best on there 4th line. Im not paying big $ for a 4th line forward.

That being said if you get a #1 overall pick this year, youre and idiot if you dont pick Hughes. And i really like Kakko.
Hughes is this years Auston Mathews. Having Patrick/Frost/Hughes/ as your top 3 centers is amazing. But im also not trading Couturier or giving up on Patrick. Frost looked great on wing in the world juniors. No reason he cant start on wing here

 

[baudib1]

I believe that Patrick is better than that.And in the future we will see that. There is no way he should be on the 4th line. This guy is a almost a number 1 pick, we were so lucky to snag. No way he should be on the 4th line. When we were playing good hockey and went on a 10 game winning streak. Patrick was on fire. This year EVERYONE looks bad. Patrick being a young player, just sucks for him.

JVR on the other hand, will be taking spots away from Lindblom. I dont want to trade Lindblom or Vorobyev. I think those guys can become great hockey players. JVR is only going to get slower, and i dont want to watch a slow team. Look at tampa bay for example. JVR would fit best on there 4th line. Im not paying big $ for a 4th line forward.

Regardless of what you believe he isn't better than that now. The best way for him to get where he needs to be may be to let him grow into a role instead of expecting him to compete with the Malkins, Brayden Points and Matthews of the world.

 

[baudib1]

That being said if you get a #1 overall pick this year, youre and idiot if you dont pick Hughes. And i really like Kakko.
Hughes is this years Auston Mathews. Having Patrick/Frost/Hughes/ as your top 3 centers is amazing. But im also not trading Couturier or giving up on Patrick. Frost looked great on wing in the world juniors. No reason he cant start on wing here

He's a center, a really good center, and his skills are more suited to center. He played wing in the WJC because his coach is an idiot who didn't use him correctly, and Canada was a huge disappointment. I'm not messing up Frost's development so we can all feel kumbaya about Nolan Patrick's draft placement. Patrick/Frost/Hughes isn't as exciting as any 3 of Giroux/Couturier/Frost/Hughes.

 

[deadhead]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Hughes, that's a long shot.
Any solid forward prospect in the top 5 would help, along with Frost. And maybe Farabee. At worst all three are starters in 2020-21.
Add one FA, one big trade, Hart get established and you're looking at a very quick turnaround.

Getting rid of the scrubs was never the issue, replacing the scrubs with much better players was the issue.
Varone/Weal/Laughton or even Vorobyev at 3C is the problem, not which one you choose.
Rubtsov/Frost/draft pick is the answer.

 

[KrazyKat]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for Hughes, that's a long shot.
Any solid forward prospect in the top 5 would help, along with Frost. And maybe Farabee. At worst all three are starters in 2020-21.
Add one FA, one big trade, Hart get established and you're looking at a very quick turnaround.

Getting rid of the scrubs was never the issue, replacing the scrubs with much better players was the issue.
Varone/Weal/Laughton or even Vorobyev at 3C is the problem, not which one you choose.
Rubtsov/Frost/draft pick is the answer.

i wouldnt say Hughes is a long shot. We are LAST in the NHL. and the last 20 games i've watched have been brutal. I don't see us winning many games going forward. Ottawa , St Louis and Even LA all look better than us.

And baudibi1 is right. Giroux/Couturier/Frost/Hughes does look better. BUT, i dont see giroux playing center here going forward. Hughes certainly wouldn't be playing on our 4th line either. Thats where your getting it wrong.

Patrick, will be a great Top 6 player for us. No way i get rid of him. He's what 21 years old? It took Couturier like 6 years before he broke out. Once he matures, he will be a great player.
I'd hate to pull a classic Philadelphia and trade him and watch him win a CUP or be a superstar somewhere else.

 

[KrazyKat]

I also keep forgetting about Rubtsov as well. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
I would call up Vorobyev NOW, to see what he can do. Because in the long run. There won't be much room for him.

 

[KrazyKat]

Plus who knows, Bunnaman will probably be our #1 Center next year

 

[deadhead]

i wouldnt say Hughes is a long shot. We are LAST in the NHL. and the last 20 games i've watched have been brutal. I don't see us winning many games going forward. Ottawa , St Louis and Even LA all look better than us.

And baudibi1 is right. Giroux/Couturier/Frost/Hughes does look better. BUT, i dont see giroux playing center here going forward. Hughes certainly wouldn't be playing on our 4th line either. Thats where your getting it wrong.

Patrick, will be a great Top 6 player for us. No way i get rid of him. He's what 21 years old? It took Couturier like 6 years before he broke out. Once he matures, he will be a great player.
I'd hate to pull a classic Philadelphia and trade him and watch him win a CUP or be a superstar somewhere else.

Patrick turned 20 in September.
Scheifele, another big center, didn't break out until he was 22.
Giroux can't play center against top opposing centers anymore, which is why he's back at LW.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

That’s why he’s back at left wing?

 

[baudib1]

It was poorly expressed by me, but I'm not saying Hughes is going to be the 4C, but that 3 of Giroux/Couturier/Frost/Hughes is better than the 1-2-3 combo suggested.

I have a lot of confidence that Patrick will develop into a fine two-way player with significant offensive upside. He's not there yet. There's no reason to rush it.

He's been outplayed this year by Weal, whom absolutely no one thinks should be brought back. He's played about as well as people like Laughton, Raffl and Weise.

 

[deadhead]

Patrick has played better than Weal, Laughton or Varone at center, he's struggled on offense after a strong start, but is reliable on defense.

If the Flyers lucked into Hughes, they'd probably trade Frost if they didn't see him as a wing, though they could always start him as a 4C (because of his hockey IQ) and see how things shake out. A problem I'm sure they'd like to have.

 

[BillDineen]

G-Couturier-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek
JVR-Vorobyev-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-NAK

Provorov Gudas
Ghost Myers
Sanheim Friedman

... and if anyone is scared that is too young, you have been brained washed by this franchise p***yness.

 

[deadhead]

It's not that young, it's just not much better.

Folin/MacDonald haven't been a real problem since MacDonald got healthy.
Vorobyev isn't much of an upgrade over Weal/Varone right now. Neither is NAK over Weise on the 4th line.
Myers might be an upgrade, but like Sanheim, expect a lot of mistakes if you don't shelter him for a year, Sanheim's play fell off significantly since he was paired with Provorov and faced top matchups.

Might as well go whole hog and move out Weise, Weal, Raffl, Voracek and Simmonds, along with Folin and maybe Hagg (though he'll have more value in June). Move MacDonald if you can find a taker. Listen to offers for Laughton, JVR and Gudas.

The idea that replacing a couple limited players with inexperienced young players is going to make a significant difference is wishful thinking. Myers is the only LHV prospect who would be a significant upgrade in terms of talent, and he's probably a year or two from being a difference maker. A healthy Rubtsov might have been a major upgrade. Vorobyev and Friedman are not going to move the needle.

I want to see the kids (and a couple top prospects obtained in trades), but right now I'd rather Fletcher remain patient and try to accumulate more assets. Come June, those picks can provide ammunition for trades and more opportunities for our scouts to find steals.

 

[Beef Invictus]

MacDonald has been a constant, dreadful problem.

 

[baudib1]

G-Couturier-TK
Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek
JVR-Vorobyev-Simmonds
Raffl-Laughton-NAK

Provorov Gudas
Ghost Myers
Sanheim Friedman

... and if anyone is scared that is too young, you have been brained washed by this franchise *****ness.

Patrick-Vorobyev-Laughton would be the worst 2-3-4 center group in the league by a wide margin, I believe. Patrick-Vorobyev at 2-3 is just impossibly bad.

JVR and Simmonds probably should never be on the same team, let alone the same line.

 

[BillDineen]

Patrick-Vorobyev-Laughton would be the worst 2-3-4 center group in the league by a wide margin, I believe. Patrick-Vorobyev at 2-3 is just impossibly bad.

JVR and Simmonds probably should never be on the same team, let alone the same line.

Misha looked best with them. Also, the team is in last fkn place. Development is all that matters.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

4 lines with players who mesh well together and play any situation. all equally sharing time on ice and thought of as a great team,not just role players or rated by line designation or situation. this is what i think this team might be in the future with the tallent they have drafted and some trades to take out the, only good at one or two thing and worthless trash players they have now.

 

[Curufinwe]

Patrick-Vorobyev-Laughton would be the worst 2-3-4 center group in the league by a wide margin, I believe. Patrick-Vorobyev at 2-3 is just impossibly bad.

JVR and Simmonds probably should never be on the same team, let alone the same line.

Who are the Devils centers behind Nico?