2018-19 Roster Talk: Part One

[Striiker]

I really honestly hope you are just desperate as opposed to this blatantly ignorant.

So placing his hope in Neuvirth and Elliott is the same as calling them Hextall's chosen championship goalies. That's a new low even for you which is saying something.

He signed them, he obviously had some level of hope and belief in them that they could do an adequate job which they have not done. Again, at no point do my actual comments line up with your frabrications or even closely resemble them.

Completely embarrassing on your part, but keep on telling me I'm the pathetic one and how Elliott, Neuvirth, and Mrazek havent been bad moves.

Look at you scramble after getting caught

 

[Stizzle]

This tool is pretty excellent. I've enjoyed looking at Filpulla's handywork from this past season.

Tableau Public

 

[Adtar02]

Your missing the point. It doesn't make them good moves. A bad move is a bad move regardless of where the organization is. Neuvirth couldn't stay healthy and Hextall still gave him a two year dal at over 2 million per. That move (and his lack of durability) led to Hextall wasting a third round pick on Mrazek. Brian Elliott just isn't very good so signing him was simply a waste. Also, I disagree with your assessment that Hextall is just biding his time. His moves and the way the coach he continues to support coaches the team clearly indicates they are trying to be competitive while developing and growing young talent. Either way, like I said, a bad move is a bad move regardless of how you want to spin it.

he also did it to expose a goalie at the expanse draft

 

[David St Hubbins]

he also did it to expose a goalie at the expanse draft

Exactly. While people are pissing and moaning about Neuvirth, the Flyers needed to either sign him or Mason to meet the expansion rules. Mason would have been a LOT more expensive, so I can live with a cheap 2 year signing of Neuvirth. I suppose they could have scooped up someone who would be nothing more than a tick mark in the box, but when that goalie was (predictably) NOT selected I suspect there would have been even more pissing and moaning about wasting a spot on a crap goalie that is blocking the kids, sucking up cap space, or f'n worthless as a backup.

The Elliott signing can at least be argued as a "bad" one, but I would argue it was "meh" considering the other options out there. Hakstols (over) usage of Elliott was a much bigger problem.

 

[Adtar02]

Wrong, as per usual. However even if it were true it wouldn't be nearly as pathetic as completely fabricating things to try to discredit someone simply because they disagree with you. Example:

"For example, acting like Elliott and Neuvirth are here as Hextalls chosen champions shows how far from reality you are."

Nowhere did I say that, say anything remotely similar to that, act like that, imply that, etc etc. I simply said they were bad signings which has proven to be true. A very concrete and simple fact that you refuse to acknowledge. You talk about me "not getting it" but that simple fact seems to allude you whether it be ignorance or denial. You won't even admit that the Mrazek trade was bad which is such a stupid point of view you can't even make it up.

its how you come across. Up in arms that the super cheap FA goalies aren't the best in the league. I am not happy the Flyers are a bubble team still. But I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Stock piling pick and slowly bring them into the lineup meant some retread vets on cheap deals to clear out the bad contracts that we already had. Still have at least one but you can see that the timing has been to be bring in youth behind the the recycled vets and cap dumps he has taken on to get better assets.

 

[Curufinwe]

I won't go as far to say he's made all good trades/signings, but I don't think it's fair to label those signings as bad.

- Relative to the market and what was available, Elliot was a good signing (and I still think he was a good one). Again: relative to the market.
- Neuvirth I personally didn't want, but we didn't pay him a lot. Didn't realize he'd be so injured.
- Mrazek trade was the epitome of low risk, high reward -- hard to knock him for trading a pick for a young, experienced goalie who possibly needed a change of scenery (again, a trade almost universally loved by all aside from Detroit fans). It was worth the gamble, frankly. I don't know if you are disputing that, but I don't think you can dispute it; the potential was there for a big winner and minimal loss if it was a loser (which it ended up as).

If you go back and read the threads when we initially acquired Neuvirth and Mzraek, the reaction was mostly very positive.

The Elliott signing was kind of funny because there was so much shit talking of Hextall prior to that based on the assumption that he would screw up and sign Bernier because of their Kings connection. Of course, Bernier ended up having a solid season as the Avs backup.

 

[Adtar02]

Exactly. While people are pissing and moaning about Neuvirth, the Flyers needed to either sign him or Mason to meet the expansion rules. Mason would have been a LOT more expensive, so I can live with a cheap 2 year signing of Neuvirth. I suppose they could have scooped up someone who would be nothing more than a tick mark in the box, but when that goalie was (predictably) NOT selected I suspect there would have been even more pissing and moaning about wasting a spot on a crap goalie that is blocking the kids, sucking up cap space, or f'n worthless as a backup.

The Elliott signing can at least be argued as a "bad" one, but I would argue it was "meh" considering the other options out there. Hakstols (over) usage of Elliott was a much bigger problem.

its two years and cheap can be buried in the minors just like nevy's if a kid plays his way in.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

This tool is pretty excellent. I've enjoyed looking at Filpulla's handywork from this past season.

Tableau Public

Going through the thread and you really had me when you said "This tool" but then when you said "is excellent" I realized you were talking about something else.

 

[Striiker]

If you go back and read the threads when we initially acquired Neuvirth and Mzraek, the reaction was mostly very positive.

The Elliott signing was kind of funny because there was so much **** talking of Hextall prior to that based on the assumption that he would screw up and sign Bernier because of their Kings connection. Of course, Bernier ended up having a solid season as the Avs backup.

Funny how pretty much every move that's now complained about was supported by the majority on here, for a reason.

Even Weise and Filppula.

 

[David St Hubbins]

Funny how pretty much every move that's now complained about was supported by the majority on here, for a reason.

Even Weise and Filppula.

Now, I will admit to some creeping "old timers disease" - probably associated with a lavish lifestyle - but my recollection was people were at best mixed about Bernier. His relatively good season seems to be bringing out some 20/20 hindsight. As for Filpula, he was generally considered a positive - I know I didn't expect him to suck as much as he has. Weiss was a guy who got a nice blurb from Hextall on his signing but was never considered anything more than a capable bottom 6 forward. Lehtera was the price of getting what has turned into the #14 pick this draft.

So what is the root issue here? TO me, it's mostly usage. Overuse of Elliott, Lehtera and Filpula (and Manning and Hagg and Macdonald) which cost us games and could not help but impact prospect development. On the plus side, Weiss didn't get ice time, which suggests Hak can avoid playing veterans who don't pan out. It's just that he has a hell of a time recognizing the suck.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Funny how pretty much every move that's now complained about was supported by the majority on here, for a reason.

Even Weise and Filppula.

I don't remember what I said, if anything, about Weise - I never liked his giant Moonheaded longface and he was awful in his brief stint with the Hawks, and only really was any good briefly with the Habs, but I may have gotten behind the signing. I was definitely behind the Mrazzle Dazzle and thought he could turn it around. I'm convinced he played terribly just to make me look stupid.

 

[Pantokrator]

I don't know hold old some of you are on here, because I operate from length of suffering. I remember the team in the late 80s that almost won a Cup, and then we were bad for 4 years retooling, leading to years of meddling by owner and/or GM, inconsistent goaltending, bad coaching, impatient GM, and bad signings. So when I see Hextall's plan taking time, it doesn't bother me because I have seen so many stupid moves from the Flyers just trying to win a Cup at the expense of the future. I look at a GM like David Poile who was patient for years before it finally paid off - and look at Nashville now, a perennial contender. That is what I am looking for in a GM.

 

[Striiker]

Now, I will admit to some creeping "old timers disease" - probably associated with a lavish lifestyle - but my recollection was people were at best mixed about Bernier. His relatively good season seems to be bringing out some 20/20 hindsight. As for Filpula, he was generally considered a positive - I know I didn't expect him to suck as much as he has. Weiss was a guy who got a nice blurb from Hextall on his signing but was never considered anything more than a capable bottom 6 forward. Lehtera was the price of getting what has turned into the #14 pick this draft.

So what is the root issue here? TO me, it's mostly usage. Overuse of Elliott, Lehtera and Filpula (and Manning and Hagg and Macdonald) which cost us games and could not help but impact prospect development. On the plus side, Weiss didn't get ice time, which suggests Hak can avoid playing veterans who don't pan out. It's just that he has a hell of a time recognizing the suck.

I don't remember what I said, if anything, about Weise - I never liked his giant Moonheaded longface and he was awful in his brief stint with the Hawks, and only really was any good briefly with the Habs, but I may have gotten behind the signing. I was definitely behind the Mrazzle Dazzle and thought he could turn it around. I'm convinced he played terribly just to make me look stupid.

I've looked back to make sure I was remembering correctly, and yeah, Filpula, Weise, Mrazek, Elliott, and Lehtera were all either seen as good moves or at least not bad.

If anyone wants/needs a reminder...

Filppula
Weise
Mrazek
Elliott
Lehtera

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

As usual, the death blow was delivered by Fart Vacuum

This makes me happy.

Weise looks like a foot.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

As usual, the death blow was delivered by Fart Vacuum

Lmao, where the hell did you find that.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Lmao, where the hell did you find that.

That link Striiker posted. You were just being honest, as usual.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm just surprised that anyone has any faith in Hextall after his decision to keep Lappy. That is beyond egregious to me.

 

[kelmitchell]

If you go back and read the threads when we initially acquired Neuvirth and Mzraek, the reaction was mostly very positive.

The Elliott signing was kind of funny because there was so much **** talking of Hextall prior to that based on the assumption that he would screw up and sign Bernier because of their Kings connection. Of course, Bernier ended up having a solid season as the Avs backup.

I actually wanted bernier to be honest, not saying hed be the best option, not saying hed be our best goalie, just who i wanted, because any goalie might get lit up with most of our defense on the ice

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This tool is pretty excellent. I've enjoyed looking at Filpulla's handywork from this past season.

Tableau Public

Gudas was 15th in the entire NHL in "game score" for defensemen who played at least 50 games.
Brandon Manning was 83rd, and tripled Chris Tanev's (whom I do think is overrated) game score.
Ristolainen was 21st from last among all 50 game + defensemen.

Seems flawed.

 

[kelmitchell]

I don't know hold old some of you are on here, because I operate from length of suffering. I remember the team in the late 80s that almost won a Cup, and then we were bad for 4 years retooling, leading to years of meddling by owner and/or GM, inconsistent goaltending, bad coaching, impatient GM, and bad signings. So when I see Hextall's plan taking time, it doesn't bother me because I have seen so many stupid moves from the Flyers just trying to win a Cup at the expense of the future. I look at a GM like David Poile who was patient for years before it finally paid off - and look at Nashville now, a perennial contender. That is what I am looking for in a GM.

Not looking for an arguement, but do you think hextall is doing/has what it takes to get us over the proverbial hump? Because me personally i am a bit worried that he cant, due to what seems like to much bone headed loyalty towards certain people, and an over cautious approach

 

[kelmitchell]

I don't remember what I said, if anything, about Weise - I never liked his giant Moonheaded longface and he was awful in his brief stint with the Hawks, and only really was any good briefly with the Habs, but I may have gotten behind the signing. I was definitely behind the Mrazzle Dazzle and thought he could turn it around. I'm convinced he played terribly just to make me look stupid.

Him and sarah jessica parker would legit have horses for kids if they reproduced

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I'm just surprised that anyone has any faith in Hextall after his decision to keep Lappy. That is beyond egregious to me.

Has no bearing on when our window opens.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Noy looking for an arguement, but do you think hextall is doing/has what it takes to get us over the proverbial hump? Because me personally i am a bit worried that he cant, due to what seems like to much bone headed loyalty towards certain people, and an over cautious approach

I'm very worried about that too, because as Reb said the decision to keep Lappy was so utterly wrongheaded. You could see why he didn't fire Hakstok before this season, or during it, or even after it - God knows he should have at some point already, he's garbage, but you could at least make a case (i.e. excuses) for keeping the dickhead. Keeping Lappy was just stupid. I guess what it comes down to for me is that this is something that can, and hopefully will, burn out as we get the window of contention open and the pressure starts to mount to do something about it.

To me, it's most vitally important that he has the mindset to build through the draft - establish the pipeline and safeguard it - and I think that underlying mentality is not something that is so easy to acquire if you don't have it already, so I'm glad he has it. (The coaching debacle is going to **** everything up, though, if we don't get it sorted - sending all these gems to Gordo, and then Simple Hak, is massively counterproductive, so the two issues are intertwined.)

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Him and sarah jessica parker would legit have horses for kids if they reproduced

They'd have their own crap HBO show - "Seabiscuit and the City"

 

[Flyerfan13]

I'm just surprised that anyone has any faith in Hextall after his decision to keep Lappy. That is beyond egregious to me.

In my opinion I think the rebuild is taking longer than hexy thought but i do agree the kids r who he is building around. His choice of coaches is concerning extending scott Gordon. Not getting rid of hakstol, keeping lappy on board. I did like the knob addition still wondering if he is being groomed to take over but damn look at who he is learning from. All things are pointing to us being a contender in 2019-2020 with cap space and rid of the bad contracts with having depth at every position after this draft.