2018-19 Roster Talk: Part One

[Psuhockey]

Hexy has to know what the parameters of a potential deal for Simmonds would be. If Simmer wants too much, then move him PDQ. It might be tough to move him but it would be worse to overpay.

I agree Hextall knows how much it would take to resign him and IMO he has no intention to do it or trade Simmonds either. Unless the season goes off the rails, I think Simmonds walks for nothing when it’s over.

 

[Rebels57]

Are these the projected lines?

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
JVR - Patrick - Voracek
Lindblom - Frost - Simmonds
Laughton - Weal - Weise
Raffl
Lehtera
Leier

Provorov - Gostisbehere
Sanheim - Gudas
MacDonald - Folin
Hagg

Elliott
Neuvirth

Raffl will play ahead of Weise with 100% certainty. Hagg will probably start the year ahead of Folin too. 3C is not settled yet. Frost could just as likely end up going back to Juniors.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
JVR - Patrick - Voracek
Lindblom - 3C* - Simmonds
Raffl - Laughton - 4RW**

*Frost/Vorobyev/Laughton/Weal
**Weal/Leier/Weise/Lehtera/Aube-Kubel

Provorov - Ghost
Sanheim - Gudas
MacDonald - Hagg

Folin

Elliott
Neuvirth

 

[BillDineen]

If Frost makes it, I could see Hak being uncomfortable with two young players on the third line. Sad but true. Maybe that would bump Raffl up and then Lindblom down, but then NAK as RW would have the same issue on the 4th. We cannot forget who our idiot coach played in the playoffs just because they were "vets" despite their lack of NHL abilities (outside of board work of course).

 

[Domino666]

If Frost makes it, I could see Hak being uncomfortable with two young players on the third line. Sad but true. Maybe that would bump Raffl up and then Lindblom down, but then NAK as RW would have the same issue on the 4th. We cannot forget who our idiot coach played in the playoffs just because they were "vets" despite their lack of NHL abilities (outside of board work of course).

Again I’m going to beat the horse a little more, why would a guy who was brought in to work with the young guys be afraid to have more than one youngen on a line? Quick answer: he’s an idiot, long answer: he’s an idiot, any answer regarding Jeff Halfcok: he’s an idiot

 

[ajgoal]

If Frost makes it, I could see Hak being uncomfortable with two young players on the third line. Sad but true. Maybe that would bump Raffl up and then Lindblom down, but then NAK as RW would have the same issue on the 4th. We cannot forget who our idiot coach played in the playoffs just because they were "vets" despite their lack of NHL abilities (outside of board work of course).

FWIW, Patrick and Lindblom played together for over 260 minutes after Lindblom was called up. I don't trust Hakstol either, but those kids played together without issue, even when Lindblom struggled to get points in the beginning.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I wouldn't worry too much about Hakstol being apprehensive of having two rookies on the 3rd line (Lindblom, Frost).

Hexy said in his most recent interview that coaches trust Lindblom and he makes proper plays. It wouldn't shock me to see a set up like this though:

G - Couts - TK
Oskar - Nolan - Jake
JVR - Frost - Simmer

 

[Rebels57]

I wouldn't worry too much about Hakstol being apprehensive of having two rookies on the 3rd line (Lindblom, Frost).

Hexy said in his most recent interview that coaches trust Lindblom and he makes proper plays. It wouldn't shock me to see a set up like this though:

G - Couts - TK
Oskar - Nolan - Jake
JVR - Frost - Simmer

Offensively that 3rd line would be really interesting. Ive thought about it myself. Defensively it could be troublesome though until Frost settles in.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Offensively that 3rd line would be really interesting. Ive thought about it myself. Defensively it could be troublesome though until Frost settles in.

Simmonds was decent defensively in the 16/17 season. At full health he shouldn't be a problem out there. JVR is fairly bad defensively, which is one of the reasons he got very favorable usage in TOR. The obvious advantage of putting JVR on Frost's line is that you can give JVR his normal ~40%+ OZs and ease Frost into the 3C role by giving him easier matchups and zone starts.

While Lindblom doesn't have a bad shot, he isn't quite the same offensive zone presence as JVR. Putting JVR on Frost's line can maximize to some degree, Frost's offensive zone effectiveness. Furthermore, Lindblom, Patrick and Jake had some solid chemistry towards the end of the year, I wouldn't mind exploring that a little further. It is definitely worth experimenting in preseason.

If Frost makes the team, I still fully expect Lindblom to start on Frost's line, but it is nice having the option to swap.

 

[Tripod]

Offensively that 3rd line would be really interesting. Ive thought about it myself. Defensively it could be troublesome though until Frost settles in.

You just shelter that 3rd line like crazy and try and play them with Provy and Ghost.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I have zero confidence in frost staying regardless of how he performs in training camp. Also for all the weal talk I just think they are giving him extra motivation for the summer, but I really doubt he plays there given how flyers want their centers play defense first.

We are one Lehtera waiver away from it being Voro. Otherwise I fully expect manure boy to fire off the season with Torgo on the ice.

Leier and Weise are largely inconsequential and I think NAK will be heading back to Lehigh valley just because we can't afford to kill extra penalties.

 

[renberg]

I agree Hextall knows how much it would take to resign him and IMO he has no intention to do it or trade Simmonds either. Unless the season goes off the rails, I think Simmonds walks for nothing when it’s over.

I don''t care for this approach and would rather move him out before camp begins. Perhaps Hextall feels that when Simmonds sees what his market is in the summer of '19, that he'll tone down his expectations and re-sign here. I just don't like having players with an important role, playing out their contract. Sure some have career years but others don't and it also adds unnecessary uncertainty into the locker room.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

You just shelter that 3rd line like crazy and try and okay then with Provy and Ghost.

Sort of reminds me of the old Hartnell - Briere - Leino line.

 

[flyersfan187]

I don''t care for this approach and would rather move him out before camp begins. Perhaps Hextall feels that when Simmonds sees what his market is in the summer of '19, that he'll tone down his expectations and re-sign here. I just don't like having players with an important role, playing out their contract. Sure some have career years but others don't and it also adds unnecessary uncertainty into the locker room.

If the Flyers are looking to be able to make a deep playoff run I would keep him for the season but if they are a fringe playoff team then you trade him at the deadline.

 

[deadhead]

The idea that Hakstol is uncomfortable playing young players is a stupid myth that keeps repeating itself around here.
Yes, he'll bench young players for repeating certain mistakes (probably because after you say it a dozen times, benching is the only way of getting their attention).
And yes, there's a tougher standard for say TK than Voracek, you're not going to change Voracek at this point, you play him or trade him.

Provorov has led this team in minutes since he hit the ice, why? High hockey IQ.
Patrick played as many minutes as he could physically handle (16+ by the end of the season). He'll play 18-20 a night this season, Why? High hockey IQ.
Lindblom was immediately put on the 2nd line, why? High hockey IQ.
Frost will get plenty of PT once he acclimates to the NHL. Why? High hockey IQ.
(Couts, Patrick, Frost, Vorobyev, Rubtsov - what do they have in common?).

When Farabee comes up, he'll immediately get a significant role. Why? High hockey IQ.

Ghost had great physical skills but was erratic as a rookie, third season, his two way play improved substantially and he played 20+ minutes a night.
TK has improved but it's not an accident he's only played well with Giroux and Couts. Couts covers for him, the way he's covered for a number of forwards.
Sanheim was erratic, bad play in his D-zone, bad gap control in the neutral zone, struggled to finish (i.e. score) in the O-zone.
Laughton simply isn't trustworthy in his D-zone, he's safer at LW with a center who can cover for him.
Hagg played a lot early due to the Gudas suspension and Morin injury, as the season progressed his PT declined because he's not a high IQ player.
Gudas had his minutes reduced because he was far more erratic last season than the previous two.
One reason Schenn got traded I think is because Ron didn't think he was the kind of center that makes his wingers better with his anticipation and defensive acumen.

That's what determines PT for young players, do they execute fundamentals? Do they play a 200 foot game? Do they know when to gamble and when to play it safe?
Some guys have this down as rookies, some guys take 2-3 years, some guys are brain dead (Hextall tries to avoid drafting them) and need to be traded before it becomes obvious to other teams.

 

[Alchemy]

I'm not worried about younger guys getting icetime. You'll see younger players roles increase. Its just the natural progression normally for pro hockey. Despite Hakstol or what you and i think of him.

 

[deadhead]

I'm not worried about younger guys getting icetime. You'll see younger players roles increase. Its just the natural progression normally for pro hockey. Despite Hakstol or what you and i think of him.

In fact, Provorov is the unusual player, rarely do rookies immediately take on such a big role, even top ten picks.
Dumba didn't put up those kind of minutes until he was 23, for example.
One reason I think is that coaches don't want to overwhelm young players physically or mentally by throwing too much at them too fast.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Again I’m going to beat the horse a little more, why would a guy who was brought in to work with the young guys be afraid to have more than one youngen on a line? Quick answer: he’s an idiot, long answer: he’s an idiot, any answer regarding Jeff Halfcok: he’s an idiot

Well, he may feel that isn't good for their development if the majority of a line is full of kids rather than vets. It isn't a super hard concept to grasp.

Now if you disagree that it will work, that's another thing entirely -- but not understanding the logic of having more vets than kids on a line makes a ton of sense for success all-around.

 

[Domino666]

Well, he may feel that isn't good for their development if the majority of a line is full of kids rather than vets. It isn't a super hard concept to grasp.

Now if you disagree that it will work, that's another thing entirely -- but not understanding the logic of having more vets than kids on a line makes a ton of sense for success all-around.

So why was he brought here then? Obviously we all knew there were going to be growing pains during the rebuild or whatever hipster term they call it these days, my point like others on here have expressed is having 2 young guys on a line doesn’t automatically spell disaster, especially when the Flyers have an influx of young kids in the pipeline some who could play on the big club and actually improve the roster, but who the f*** wants that right? For me the non upgrade a goalie tells me this year is another building year so why not let the kids get their reps in? But bottom line I’ll never share your love for Hack, I can’t stand him as a coach he’s basura

 

[deadhead]

It depends on the young players, Lindblom and Patrick work because both are high IQ, two way players.
TK was awful last year until he paired up with two veterans who could cover for him - you wouldn't want him on a line with a rookie center.
Lindblom would probably work with Frost for the same reason he worked with Patrick.
Vorobyev could probably work with Lindblom or NAK because he's a responsible two way center.

One reason Ron probably loves adding smart, two way centers is it's easier to mix and match them with forwards with some cognitive limitations.
For example, Farabee and Frost would be a good combination with Allison, as would Lindblom and Patrick.

 

[Alchemy]

In fact, Provorov is the unusual player, rarely do rookies immediately take on such a big role, even top ten picks.
Dumba didn't put up those kind of minutes until he was 23, for example.
One reason I think is that coaches don't want to overwhelm young players physically or mentally by throwing too much at them too fast.

Agree 100%

 

[Adam Warlock]

Listening to Hexy on Meltzers podcast...Hexy mentioned pretty much every player who can play center (Weal, G, Vorobyov, Laughton, Frost) as a 3C option except for Lethera.

Im real curious to see how he handles it when Hak has Lethera in that spot.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I wouldn't worry too much about Hakstol being apprehensive of having two rookies on the 3rd line (Lindblom, Frost).

Hexy said in his most recent interview that coaches trust Lindblom and he makes proper plays. It wouldn't shock me to see a set up like this though

Lindblom passed the eye test easily. Even if it doesn’t translate to the scoresheet

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So why was he brought here then? Obviously we all knew there were going to be growing pains during the rebuild or whatever hipster term they call it these days, my point like others on here have expressed is having 2 young guys on a line doesn’t automatically spell disaster, especially when the Flyers have an influx of young kids in the pipeline some who could play on the big club and actually improve the roster, but who the **** wants that right? For me the non upgrade a goalie tells me this year is another building year so why not let the kids get their reps in? But bottom line I’ll never share your love for Hack, I can’t stand him as a coach he’s basura

I don't have a love for Hak. I dislike Hak. I wanted him fired and I look forward to when he is fired. I just don't hate Hak and go overboard like you're doing right now.

Asking "why is he here then?" is unfair because it isn't his job to put kids on lines together. His job is to develop young players the best he can and he feels (apparently) the best way to do that is with his own methods of playing them with veterans more often than other kids. That is a classic coaching lineup strategy --- I don't see why that is a ridiculous thing to buy into for you as a fan (kids learning from vets on ice, learning from their presence and composure that kids many times lack).

So far, he hasn't screwed a single kid up yet on this roster yet everyone acts like he's the grim reaper of careers -- no Pavel Brendls or Jeff Woywitkas yet. He's not good at making adjustments, he makes extremely questionable ice time decisions and he has crap Asst. coaches, BUT he also had never had a complete team to work with (it's been trash from a depth perspective for years), our high-end prospects have performed well overall (only one jerked around is Sanheim) under him, and the team made progress in the past year from an overall standings standpoint.

Our goaltending isn't great, but it isn't bad either. If we can fix our PK, we're a whole different team. Elliot was excellent 5-on-5 but one of the worst on the PK.

The sky isn't falling, folks. He's just not a good coach is all. We'll get a better one in a year or so.

 

[deadhead]

I've noticed that every fan base hates their coach, until they win, and they still hate them the next season when the team slips back.
Not sure too many coaches would have gotten last year's Flyer to the playoffs, bad goalies, no depth, 4 reliable forwards, 2 reliable defensemen.
As Hatcher pointed out, Hakstol is running a similar scheme to Gallant, except Gallant had a much deeper team, and oh yeah, MAF in goal.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Listening to Hexy on Meltzers podcast...Hexy mentioned pretty much every player who can play center (Weal, G, Vorobyov, Laughton, Frost) as a 3C option except for Lethera.

Im real curious to see how he handles it when Hak has Lethera in that spot.

Torgo played like 60 games last year. Hexy might need to waive him.