2018-19 Roster Talk: Part One

[bobbythebrain]

I have said time and time and time and time again that he has done an excellent job of drafting over the last four years. Trades has been hit and miss and free agency signings have been pretty terrible. Nothing about what I am saying is ground breaking or different than what the average Flyers fan has to say. For some reason though you feel the need to obsessively stalk me and rant like a crazy person of their meds, and it's starting to get a little creepy.

No. Just seeing you bash him over and over cuz you fail to realize that he doesn't want to spend yet. You get angry when you saw Drouin get traded and bashed Hexy for not jumping on that, even tho he has spouted patience how many times? Bash him for his cheap FA signings. Well no duh, they are cheap half measure signings. What do you expect?

And I'm not stalking you, but it's tough not to reply to a poster who makes comments towards other posters that we just don't get it..when infact, it very much seems like you are the one not getting it. Despite Hextall's repeated plan

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Every thread is the same debate in different language with different posters.

Sigh.

Eh, people are bored. Nothing else to do but debate the team's direction and pick wings off flies.

 

[The Madrigal]

No. Just seeing you bash him over and over cuz you fail to realize that he doesn't want to spend yet. You get angry when you saw Drouin get traded and bashed Hexy for not jumping on that, even tho he has spouted patience how many times? Bash him for his cheap FA signings. Well no duh, they are cheap half measure signings. What do you expect?

And I'm not stalking you, but it's tough not to reply to a poster who makes comments towards other posters that we just don't get it..when infact, it very much seems like you are the one not getting it. Despite Hextall's repeated plan

Nobody is bashing anybody. I am simply stating facts. Trusting the team's goaltending position in recent years to a guy like Michal Neuvirth who makes injury prone players look like Cal Ripken JR., and a very average Brian Eliott who sucks in the playoffs were horrible moves. If you want to deny that or try to spin things by saying they were "minor moves" or whatever other excuse you can come up, good for you. Don't follow me around and take it out on me though for keepingit real and pointing out the obvious.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Nobody is bashing anybody. I am simply stating facts. Trusting the team's goaltending position in recent years to a guy like Michal Neuvirth who makes injury prone players look like Cal Ripken JR., and a very average Brian Eliott who sucks in the playoffs were horrible moves. If you want to deny that or try to spin things by saying they were "minor moves" or whatever other excuse you can come up, good for you. Don't follow me around and take it out on me though for keepingit real and pointing out the obvious.

So here's the deal:

The Brain here has basically gotten you to admit you don't know/don't care what Hextall's plan is. This whole post you just wrote is talking about why his bandaid goalies aren't better currently (as in can't get it done in the playoffs)...when, as Bobby the Brain was saying, Hextall's plan clearly isn't to be a contender.

In that case, playoff success would be nice but it's nothing to damage long-term for.

See what he (and myself) is saying?

 

[The Madrigal]

So here's the deal:

The Brain here has basically gotten you to admit you don't know/don't care what Hextall's plan is. This whole post you just wrote is talking about why his bandaid goalies aren't better currently (as in can't get it done in the playoffs)...when, as Bobby the Brain was saying, Hextall's plan clearly isn't to be a contender.

In that case, playoff success would be nice but it's nothing to damage long-term for.

See what he (and myself) is saying?

All I see is you making up a bunch of stuff and putting words in my mouth to try to "win" an argument that nobody can. It comes down to opinion. I'm not the one who gets all bent out of shape and stalks people who don't see things from my perspective.

 

[Magua]

Every thread is the same debate in different language with different posters.

Sigh.

Sometimes you read the same arguments over and over in thread after thread and you just want to scream to the heavens:

"THAT IS A NORMAL COLLAR. MOVE ON, FIND A NEW SLANT."

 

[bobbythebrain]

Nobody is bashing anybody. I am simply stating facts. Trusting the team's goaltending position in recent years to a guy like Michal Neuvirth who makes injury prone players look like Cal Ripken JR., and a very average Brian Eliott who sucks in the playoffs were horrible moves. If you want to deny that or try to spin things by saying they were "minor moves" or whatever other excuse you can come up, good for you. Don't follow me around and take it out on me though for keepingit real and pointing out the obvious.

Sure. But what has he spent in these minor moves? Late picks or low risk contracts. Atleast the team is half a** competitive while developing vs flat out tanking like how many other teams. I'm happy players like Patrick, Konecny, Provy and Ghost get to stay competitive vs players like Hall,Ebs and RNH did in Edm or now, Eichel and Risto in Buf who spend their development years in a losing culture

And you say "trusting". He ain't trusting anyone. He's biding time. You seriously think Hextall is that stupid and such a bad judge of talent he thinks other teams trash like Elliot and Mrazek are gonna be this teams treasure? Clearly he is just treading water

Stating the obvious that these goalies suck is no revelation. We know it. He knows it.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I wish Dave Hakstol had a burner account. That guy takes a beating on here & twitter.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

All I see is you making up a bunch of stuff and putting words in my mouth to try to "win" an argument that nobody can. It comes down to opinion. I'm not the one who gets all bent out of shape and stalks people who don't see things from my perspective.

I didn't make anything up. I used what you gave me to determine why you're constantly disappointed with Hextall's current state of the team. You've said you don't understand how Flyers fans accept mediocrity and that Hextall has made bad goaltending signings, yet you seemingly can't tell me who would've been a much more logical signing/trade than Elliot to bridge to Hart (I hope you can-- you just haven't answered my prompt yet).

The debate of whether or not Hextall's plan is a good one is indeed opinion, but that's not an argument any of us seem to be having. Some like yourself have said his signings have blown, when I think that's extremely questionable (ala Elliot) considering Hextall's long-term plan.

I'm not bent out of shape. I'm in a discussion with you about some statements you have dug in your heels about as facts (or near-facts). I'm trying to get to the root of why and how they are facts to you when I feel I've presented points/posed questions that show otherwise (but I've been left hanging on many of those).

 

[The Madrigal]

Sure. But what has he spent in these minor moves? Late picks or low risk contracts. Atleast the team is half a** competitive while developing vs flat out tanking like how many other teams. I'm happy players like Patrick, Konecny, Provy and Ghost get to stay competitive vs players like Hall,Ebs and RNH did in Edm or now, Eichel and Risto in Buf who spend their development years in a losing culture

And you say "trusting". He ain't trusting anyone. He's biding time. You seriously think Hextall is that stupid and such a bad judge of talent he thinks other teams trash like Elliot and Mrazek are gonna be this teams treasure? Clearly he is just treading water

Your missing the point. It doesn't make them good moves. A bad move is a bad move regardless of where the organization is. Neuvirth couldn't stay healthy and Hextall still gave him a two year dal at over 2 million per. That move (and his lack of durability) led to Hextall wasting a third round pick on Mrazek. Brian Elliott just isn't very good so signing him was simply a waste. Also, I disagree with your assessment that Hextall is just biding his time. His moves and the way the coach he continues to support coaches the team clearly indicates they are trying to be competitive while developing and growing young talent. Either way, like I said, a bad move is a bad move regardless of how you want to spin it.

 

[The Madrigal]

I didn't make anything up. I used what you gave me to determine why you're constantly disappointed with Hextall's current state of the team. You've said you don't understand how Flyers fans accept mediocrity and that Hextall has made bad goaltending signings, yet you seemingly can't tell me who would've been a much more logical signing/trade than Elliot to bridge to Hart (I hope you can-- you just haven't answered my prompt yet).

The debate of whether or not Hextall's plan is a good one is indeed opinion, but that's not an argument any of us seem to be having. Some like yourself have said his signings have blown, when I think that's extremely questionable (ala Elliot) considering Hextall's long-term plan.

I'm not bent out of shape. I'm in a discussion with you about some statements you have dug in your heels about as facts (or near-facts). I'm trying to get to the root of why and how they are facts to you when I feel I've presented points/posed questions that show otherwise (but I've been left hanging on many of those).

First of all, yes you did fill in the blanks and put words in my mouth to try to suit your argument.

Second, if you honestly think that Brian Elliott was a decent signing than we have nothing to talk about. You want proof or facts? Look at his numbers, look at how he played in the playoffs this year and with two other teams in recent years. He wasn't good, period, simple fact.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

First of all, yes you did fill in the blanks and put words in my mouth to try to suit your argument.

Second, if you honestly think that Brian Elliott was a decent signing than we have nothing to talk about. You want proof or facts? Look at his numbers, look at how he played in the playoffs this year and with two other teams in recent years. He wasn't good, period, simple fact.

Welp this is the best I'm gonna get, huh?

If so, we do indeed have nothing else to talk about.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I didn't make anything up. I used what you gave me to determine why you're constantly disappointed with Hextall's current state of the team. You've said you don't understand how Flyers fans accept mediocrity and that Hextall has made bad goaltending signings, yet you seemingly can't tell me who would've been a much more logical signing/trade than Elliot to bridge to Hart (I hope you can-- you just haven't answered my prompt yet).

The debate of whether or not Hextall's plan is a good one is indeed opinion, but that's not an argument any of us seem to be having. Some like yourself have said his signings have blown, when I think that's extremely questionable (ala Elliot) considering Hextall's long-term plan.

I'm not bent out of shape. I'm in a discussion with you about some statements you have dug in your heels about as facts (or near-facts). I'm trying to get to the root of why and how they are facts to you when I feel I've presented points/posed questions that show otherwise (but I've been left hanging on many of those).

Bingo. Especially about other goalies who were available. No response there of course.

Neuvy and Elliot are off the books next year. Just like the Hartnell trade, I see that as deliberately planned cap management vs idiotic GM'ing

 

[bobbythebrain]

First of all, yes you did fill in the blanks and put words in my mouth to try to suit your argument.

Second, if you honestly think that Brian Elliott was a decent signing than we have nothing to talk about. You want proof or facts? Look at his numbers, look at how he played in the playoffs this year and with two other teams in recent years. He wasn't good, period, simple fact.

Who was available on a cheap two year term? Facts only please. With links if possible?

 

[The Madrigal]

Bingo. Especially about other goalies who were available. No response there of course.

Neuvy and Elliot are off the books next year. Just like the Hartnell trade, I see that as deliberately planned cap management vs idiotic GM'ing

Yep, Hextall deliberately planned to sign two crappy goalies (and waste a third round pick on another) who would be injured and/or play poorly for a few years. Great plan.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Who was available on a cheap two year term? Facts only please. With links if possible?

Crickets

 

[The Madrigal]

Who was available on a cheap two year term? Facts only please. With links if possible?

Why do they have to be cheaper on a two year deal only? That's my whole point, you can't go cheap and go bargain bin shopping or the most important position in all of sports after QB. Off the top of my head and last summer alone Ben Bishop, Mike Smith, and Antti Raanta, were all traded and would have been better than Elliott or Neuvirth. I will remove Raanta from the equation since he was traded from a division rival and sent out West. That still leaves Bishop and Smith. Jonathan Bernier took a one year deal at less money than both Elliott and Neuvirth last summer in free agency and had a better season than both. Now there are rumors that Hextall wants to ditch Neuvirth and sign Bernier.

Either way, you can't just write off the goaltending position for two years because you are under this belief that Carter Hart and/or Felix Sandstrom will be magically be ready to carry the load for a playoff team by 2019-2020. That is yet to be determined and if they aren't ready, guess what, you are right back to dipping back into the goalie market and getting the place holders to the last place holders. It wouldn't hurt to actually acquire decent NHL goalie to play for a few years and help the team be competitive and then ease in one of your young goalies so they aren't thrown into the middle of the ocean and have to be the savior of the franchise right away.

 

[The Madrigal]

Crickets

 

[bobbythebrain]

Why do they have to be cheaper on a two year deal only? That's my whole point, you can't go cheap and go bargain bin shopping or the most important position in all of sports after QB. Off the top of my head and last summer alone Ben Bishop, Mike Smith, and Antti Raanta, were all traded and would have been better than Elliott or Neuvirth. I will remove Raanta from the equation since he was traded from a division rival and sent out West. That still leaves Bishop and Smith. Jonathan Bernier took a one year deal at less money than both Elliott and Neuvirth last summer in free agency and had a better season than both. Now there are rumors that Hextall wants to ditch Neuvirth and sign Bernier.

Either way, you can't just write off the goaltending position for two years because you are under this belief that Carter Hart and/or Felix Sandstrom will be magically be ready to carry the load for a playoff team by 2019-2020. That is yet to be determined and if they aren't ready, guess what, you are right back to dipping back into the goalie market and getting the place holders to the last place holders. It wouldn't hurt to actually acquire decent NHL goalie to play for a few years and help the team be competitive and then ease in one of your young goalies so they aren't thrown into the middle of the ocean and have to be the savior of the franchise right away.

I'm not under the belief that he is waiting for Hart or whoever. What did you say about putting words in people's mouths?

I'm under the belief he took what was available under the parameters of his cap/term plan and he will spend significant assets on that position if it is not filled internally...when the time is right

I am ecstatic we don't have Bishop signed till 2022, or a Lucic contract, or wasted the assets it took to get Drouin and/or Duchene. I'm happy we didn't pony up what Cagy did for Hamonic

But in 2 years from now, when we do make those kinda moves, then it will be time to judge.

And BTW...the team is competitive. They just made the post-season FYI

 

[The Madrigal]

I'm not under the belief that he is waiting for Hart or whoever. What did you say about putting words in people's mouths?

I'm under the belief he took what was available under the parameters of his cap/term plan and he will spend significant assets on that position if it is not filled internally...when the time is right

I am ecstatic we don't have Bishop signed till 2022, or a Lucic contract, or wasted the assets it took to get Drouin and/or Duchene. I'm happy we didn't pony up what Cagy did for Hamonic

But in 2 years from now, when we do make those kinda moves, then it will be time to judge.

And BTW...the team is competitive. They just made the post-season FYI

So in other words we are two years away from being two years away from contending. Got it.

Sad state of affairs as a Flyers fan when you have people vehemently defending Hextall for placing his goaltending hopes on Michal Neuvrith, Brian Elliott, and Petr Mrazek.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Sometimes you read the same arguments over and over in thread after thread and you just want to scream to the heavens:

"THAT IS A NORMAL COLLAR. MOVE ON, FIND A NEW SLANT."

“THESE ARE NORMAL MONOGRAMMED SANDLES. MOVE ON, FIND A NEW SLANT.”

 

[bobbythebrain]

So in other words we are two years away from being two years away from contending. Got it.

Sad state of affairs as a Flyers fan when you have people vehemently defending Hextall for placing his goaltending hopes on Michal Neuvrith, Brian Elliott, and Petr Mrazek.

Placing his hopes would have been long term contracts.

 

[Magua]

I wish Dave Hakstol had a burner account. That guy takes a beating on here & twitter.

I've thought about it, and there's just no way Hakstol has a burner account.

The man could not have been more clear when he told us, "I don't care what social media says."

 

[The Madrigal]

Placing his hopes would have been long term contracts.

Oh, so in other words the last two years were just planned write offs and thus Hextall was incapable of making any bad moves. I'll take excuses for $1,600 Alex.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I've thought about it, and there's just no way Hakstol has a burner account.

The man could not have been more clear when he told us, "I don't care what social media says."

In general I don’t think this type of scenario is really in the cards for the NHL. I’d imagine whatever executives/coaches that actually do have legit verified accounts a fair amount of them are probably ran by someone else.