Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion Part I

[Pinkfloyd]

How many 7 million dollar 60 point players do the sharks need

More than what they have signed next year.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

How many 7 million dollar 60 point players do the sharks need

He's only played 2 season and put up 60 points each season. No way is that his ceiling.

 

[ursus maritimus]

Timo is better than them. They're not even close from him physically or defensively. If you look at scoring only Timo may never equal their totals but if you look at overall performance I'd take Timo over them every day of the year. Especially if you're as focused on possession as the Sharks are. Try find a player stronger on the puck than Meier. There probably isn't a single one.

Plus, Meier, together with Hertl, has proven to be the gamechanger recently. Other players may have scored more but if you look at important goals you'll find out that their sticks were almost always involved. They're clutch players and their ability to dominate every single line in the NHL is intriguing.

NHL.com - Stats

 

[SjMilhouse]

NHL.com - Stats

Dude don't you know size and power is more important than leading the league in points?

Rantanen is a ppg scrub because he doesn't play defense or care about the team like that chump barzal. Sharks don't need game breakers, we need 30g power forwards that are strong on the puck and score clutch goals?


This is such a dumb hill to die on

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

Dude don't you know size and power is more important than leading the league in points?

Rantanen is a ppg scrub because he doesn't play defense or care about the team like that chump barzal. Sharks don't need game breakers, we need 30g power forwards that are strong on the puck and score clutch goals?


This is such a dumb hill to die on

'Rantanen' and 'scrub' hardly go in the same sentence this season. Just saying.

 

[SjMilhouse]

'Rantanen' and 'scrub' hardly go in the same sentence this season. Just saying.

Not according to some or I guess one person on this board. It was sarcasm

 

[Hinterland]

Not according to some or I guess one person on this board. It was sarcasm

I never said anything against Rantanen. I still prefer Timo because of his possession game but Rantanen seems much improved, too. He was MacKinnon's sidekick last season but looks elite now.

 

[Used As A Shield]

Not sure the best thread for these stats, but didn't think they were worth putting in the Sharks News thread. Might be worth talking about. A lot more graphs on his site to look at as well.




Sean Tierney on Twitter

 

[Used As A Shield]

Do we need a thread just for interesting stats and talk, so those that hate stats can just ignore the thread?

 

[one2gamble]

Do we need a thread just for interesting stats and talk, so those that hate stats can just ignore the thread?

no, they should just go in the general sharks discussion thread

 

[Jaleel619]

Timo is great his character traits remind me exactly of this teams identity in the early 2000's. Gritty, leadership, and scoring. I think he could easily be a shark for life. I think he really likes it here.

 

[hockeyball]

I think the biggest frustration this year is that the Sharks are CRAZY good, but they keep losing games. Statistically, they are the best team in the league (advanced stats wise) by quite a bit, but they keep losing games. Why? In my opinion it's a combination of sub part goaltending, and some terrible ass coaching.

 

[Used As A Shield]

no, they should just go in the general sharks discussion thread

The Sharks News/Notes thread? Or is there a general discussion thread I inadvertently ignored?

 

[jarr92]

I think the biggest frustration this year is that the Sharks are CRAZY good, but they keep losing games. Statistically, they are the best team in the league (advanced stats wise) by quite a bit, but they keep losing games. Why? In my opinion it's a combination of sub part goaltending, and some terrible ass coaching.

Isn't coaching also partly responsible then for having the best advanced stats? Or does the system not factor in at all?

 

[one2gamble]

The Sharks News/Notes thread? Or is there a general discussion thread I inadvertently ignored?

to be honest I think it should go here but I wouldnt create a new thread for it. I would either go here or the Sharks news and notes. I think there is a valid argument it should be here since the news and notes thread has devolved int a press release list.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Isn't coaching also partly responsible then for having the best advanced stats? Or does the system not factor in at all?

It is partly responsible for the advanced stats but I think the critique in coaching is more revolved around personnel decisions in-game mostly.

 

[hockeyball]

It is partly responsible for the advanced stats but I think the critique in coaching is more revolved around personnel decisions in-game mostly.

Pretty much. The system they are trying to run is theoretically fine, and plays a role in how we dominate play (same thing the Penguins did to us, and Vegas did to us), but bonkers line matching and bizarre line deployments. Essentially, the Sharks will have the momentum, then some out of left field adjustments will break that momentum, or the inability to counter-adjust to the other teams adjustments.

I don't blame the players here at all. They are playing plenty well to win games overall, DeBoer, and too a lesser extent the goalies are the root cause here. I say a lesser extent, because a bad goalie can be masked by a good system, but the system we are playing requires good goaltending, which we are not getting.

 

[jarr92]

It is partly responsible for the advanced stats but I think the critique in coaching is more revolved around personnel decisions in-game mostly.

While I haven't agreed on all his moves, I feel like PDB has been trying to see what D/O pairings work in game now verus later on/the playoffs.

Other then throwing the D pairings in a blender occasionally, the personnel has been okay imo. The recent back to back wasn't great I will say, and that PP.. Put Burns on high left wing EK65 middle Couture high right, Pav in front and Hertl retrieving. Doesn't seem that complicated.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Just want to put this here for future reference so people remember all players go through slumps:

Couture: 0 goals, 1 assist, -8 in last 6 games
Donskoi: 1 goal, 1 assist, -1 in last 9 games
Kane: 2 goals, 1 assist, -6 in last 10 games

Because if Labanc goes through a stretch like that people want to waive him.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Just want to put this here for future reference so people remember all players go through slumps:

Couture: 0 goals, 1 assist, -8 in last 6 games
Donskoi: 1 goal, 1 assist, -1 in last 9 games
Kane: 2 goals, 1 assist, -6 in last 10 games

Because if Labanc goes through a stretch like that people want to waive him.

Difference is that when Lebanc does it he generally looks inept and like he's half assing it. The other players you mentioned still appear to be busting their ass and getting chances but suffer from being a little more unlucky in their slumps.

 

[NiWa]

Difference is that when Lebanc does it he generally looks inept and like he's half assing it. The other players you mentioned still appear to be busting their ass and getting chances but suffer from being a little more unlucky in their slumps.

I wouldn't agree with that assessment and I am curious how others have perceived this.

From what I've seen, even when in a slump you can also see Labanc continues to work hard.
You just see him trying to do too much / too complicated things and getting burned on them. And then next shift he is trying to make up for that mistake and it backfires (e.g. by taking a silly penalty while fighting intensely for the puck along the walls/boards).

Instead, I have the impression fans would love it if he'd just simplify it and quickly make the easy play instead. But do that without thinking about the complicated high risk play for an eternity first.

 

[WTFetus]

Difference is that when Lebanc does it he generally looks inept and like he's half assing it. The other players you mentioned still appear to be busting their ass and getting chances but suffer from being a little more unlucky in their slumps.

Completely disagree. I haven't seen Labanc float or coast more than the other 3 during slumps.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Just want to put this here for future reference so people remember all players go through slumps:

Couture: 0 goals, 1 assist, -8 in last 6 games
Donskoi: 1 goal, 1 assist, -1 in last 9 games
Kane: 2 goals, 1 assist, -6 in last 10 games

Because if Labanc goes through a stretch like that people want to waive him.

When Couture isn't scoring, he's still great defensively, controlling play through the neutral zone, winning faceoffs, stripping opponents of the puck, generally doing well in possession, etc.

Donskoi's not as good as Couture, but he's still solid defensively and great on zone entries.

Kane I have criticized because I think he is below-average defensively, but when he isn't scoring, he's at least playing physically, doing well along the boards, stretching the ice with his speed, etc.

When Labanc is not producing (and no one wants to waive him), he's at best a black hole, or at worst, actively costing the team. He's poor defensively, not physical, not a specialist in any way, not particularly fast...his contributions are almost solely captured by his point totals. Plus, on top of all that, Couture, Kane, and Donskoi are known quantities. We know what they are capable of, and expect slumps. With Labanc, not only are you hoping that he can prove to be better, but he hasn't established that kind of trust.

Last year, the question was whether Labanc deserves a regular spot with regular ice time. The question this year is if Labanc should be in the long-term plans of the organization, or someone who is moved for that piece?

Difference is that when Lebanc does it he generally looks inept and like he's half assing it. The other players you mentioned still appear to be busting their ass and getting chances but suffer from being a little more unlucky in their slumps.

I don't think it is about effort. Labanc just doesn't do as much away from the puck.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

LaBanc has been pretty solid all season, even during his slumps. He’s 7th on the team with 12 points and he’s on pace for 49 points and he really hasn’t been floating at all. People just see him as an easy target for criticism because he isn’t particularly physical or gritty.

 

[Dicdonya]

Just want to put this here for future reference so people remember all players go through slumps:

Couture: 0 goals, 1 assist, -8 in last 6 games
Donskoi: 1 goal, 1 assist, -1 in last 9 games
Kane: 2 goals, 1 assist, -6 in last 10 games

Because if Labanc goes through a stretch like that people want to waive him.

Probably because Cooch gets the benefit of the doubt, having scored like 50+ pts 6 times in his career. However there is no doubt to me that Cooch is stinking it up badly this year, even when Hertl was healthy and on his line. Cooch is barely shooting, not going to dangerous shooting locations, and is crap on the boards. The only reason his season does not look pathetic is that Hertl/Meier carried him quite a bit so far. Hertl being hurt lately has not surprisingly lead to Cooch sucking.

Donskoi has been playing well, things just have not been going in for him. He busts his butt on the forecheck, creates takeaways, and is dangerous quite often from plays he makes. He can be better, and we need some more finish out of him, but he is in no way invisible out there the majority of the time.

I agree Kane needs to step it up. Hes been alright lately, but we need him to be better than alright. He is one of the most impactful players on the team, we need him to play like that on most occasions.

Labanc gets crapped on because he can be 100% negated by a team that pressures him. These others players, except maybe recently Cooch, have the ability to break through that pressure and be dangerous still, even if the other team is taking away their preferred method of attack.

Labanc MUST have time and space, if the defense is anywhere near him he will lose the puck, and if the opposing team even breathes on him near the boards he loses the battle 100% of the time. That is my only problem with Labanc, compared to the others, he is just waaaaaay to soft. Not sure if its just a mental thing, or a physical thing, because hes not a big guy, but he is also is not a super small guy either.