Line Combos: 2018/19 Roster Discussion mk2 - Opening Night

Corpus X

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Although I expect there certainly will be discussion after Valimaki plays his 9th game. Send him down then, to the AHL, and the Flames get him on a 4 year ECL. After the 9th game his ECL is reduced to 3 years. Obviously its a no-brainer decision if his play continues to be excellent, but if it declines I expect there will be a serious discussion.

Of course! It's all up to Val. I don't believe the ELC clause really matters if his play holds up. That's saying "I'm cheap." People might think, "no, it's shrewd cap management," but it will look cheap to send a player down if the player plays at an NHL level and it may jeopardize future assets signing here. If he's a tweener than it's a conversation to send him down.
 

Fig

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Although I expect there certainly will be discussion after Valimaki plays his 9th game. Send him down then, to the AHL, and the Flames get him on a 4 year ECL. After the 9th game his ECL is reduced to 3 years. Obviously its a no-brainer decision if his play continues to be excellent, but if it declines I expect there will be a serious discussion.

That's not how an entry level contract works.
NHL Entry Level Contracts (ELC) – A Quick Primer

Valimaki's ELC is 3 seasons. However, if he plays 9 NHL games or less, he is essentially deemed not to have played a season of that ELC so it "slides".

ELS (Entry Level Slide) – If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.



I think if Vali gets to that point (41 games isn't it?) he's here to stay.

Generally if a player gets to 41 games, it means that their UFA comes up early, yes. But honestly speaking, the difference in salary between a UFA year and RFA year spread across a full contract isn't horribly huge (ie: A few million difference in a season). So I don't think it's something that is too worrisome.

Of course! It's all up to Val. I don't believe the ELC clause really matters if his play holds up. That's saying "I'm cheap." People might think, "no, it's shrewd cap management," but it will look cheap to send a player down if the player plays at an NHL level and it may jeopardize future assets signing here. If he's a tweener than it's a conversation to send him down.

If he is heads and shoulders above the next available player, and he's not a liability on the ice I say we play him. If his play holds up, it's obviously earned not given. The issue with assuming he will play the entire season though is that it feels like a given not earned scenario. Saving the ELC year is not about being cheap. It's literally putting yourself in the best position to win a Stanley cup by having high talent/salary ratio for your roster. Furthermore, I don't see how it jeopardizes future assets signing here unless it's a FA NCAA situation, or a foreign player. These situations are rare and Tim Erixon situations are even rarer.
 

Corpus X

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If he is heads and shoulders above the next available player, and he's not a liability on the ice I say we play him. If his play holds up, it's obviously earned not given.

Everybody is basically saying this. No need to rehash it, unless you're going on the record... ;)

The issue with assuming he will play the entire season though is that it feels like a given not earned scenario. Saving the ELC year is not about being cheap. It's literally putting yourself in the best position to win a Stanley cup by having high talent/salary ratio for your roster. Furthermore, I don't see how it jeopardizes future assets signing here unless it's a FA NCAA situation, or a foreign player. These situations are rare and Tim Erixon situations are even rarer.

There is something that many people do when they try to predict things... and that's thinking from one side only. It's why most people get frustrated when others disagree with them. They simply have difficulty looking at issues from the other side. I'm not saying you lack this magical ability to think about more than one POV but in your post you absolutely have. Signing with a team is an absolute players choice. Of course, with RFA or drafted players if they choose that route they don't play unless the team trades them. A team will ALWAYS make a choice that's best for the team (So I agree with you there). However, if a team chooses to send a player down just to save an ELC year even though he has ABSOLUTELY (I'm just emphasizing when using capitals and not yelling:) ) earned that spot it will have a negative social and emotional impact. It tells EVERYONE who's paying attention that a team does't care about merit... If the Flames mistreat a player it will impact others in signing with that team not just new players coming into the league. We also call this "being classy". Just look to Edmonton for a "classy" example in attracting players... Their mistreatment of players made them a pariah. Before McDavid appeared, of course. ... But that gave them Lucic and Draisaitl and we all love those signings. ;) Remember the McDavid verbal fellatio Katz gave McDavid so he'd sign with the Oilers?



When it comes down to it, like on most chat boards, we're just splitting hairs.
 

Rubi

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Oct. 4 practice lines. Hamonic wasn't on the ice. Prout filled in for him.
Frolik moved down to the Bennett-Jankowski line and Czarnik back with Chucky and Backlund.

 

Fig

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Hammer deserves a day or two off, he was busted open pretty good in that tilt.

I'm wondering if it wasn't Gubrandson's fist that hurt his jaw. To me it looked like he smacked his face on the ice going down at the end of that exchange.
 

Fig

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Everybody is basically saying this. No need to rehash it, unless you're going on the record... ;)



There is something that many people do when they try to predict things... and that's thinking from one side only. It's why most people get frustrated when others disagree with them. They simply have difficulty looking at issues from the other side. I'm not saying you lack this magical ability to think about more than one POV but in your post you absolutely have. Signing with a team is an absolute players choice. Of course, with RFA or drafted players if they choose that route they don't play unless the team trades them. A team will ALWAYS make a choice that's best for the team (So I agree with you there). However, if a team chooses to send a player down just to save an ELC year even though he has ABSOLUTELY (I'm just emphasizing when using capitals and not yelling:) ) earned that spot it will have a negative social and emotional impact. It tells EVERYONE who's paying attention that a team does't care about merit... If the Flames mistreat a player it will impact others in signing with that team not just new players coming into the league. We also call this "being classy". Just look to Edmonton for a "classy" example in attracting players... Their mistreatment of players made them a pariah. Before McDavid appeared, of course. ... But that gave them Lucic and Draisaitl and we all love those signings. ;) Remember the McDavid verbal ******io Katz gave McDavid so he'd sign with the Oilers?



When it comes down to it, like on most chat boards, we're just splitting hairs.


Was this part even necessary? Because I read your post last night and just rolled my eyes. I wasn't frustrated, just stating a POV. If you re-read my post and some of the earlier ones, it essentially agrees with the latter half of this post you made. Additionally, the Sam Bennett situation is a perfect example of this situation.

My sole quibble, is anyone who says he's here to stay. I feel it's more prudent to say he gets at least the 9 game cup of coffee. IMO we can start guessing with much more certainty around game 7-8, rather than have an attitude that he is guaranteed to be on the Flames roster the entire season. I even believe the same may occur with Dube, swapping with Mangiapane after a few games ish if he seems replaceable. All I'm saying is that I don't have a crystal ball and neither do other posters and likely management. So I think my opinion is what management is likely doing.

But as you mentioned, it's splitting hairs.
 
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Fig

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Andersson should be called up if hamonic is hurt tbh. Would rather have him in the top 4 than stone.

IMO, Stone isn't completely egregious defensively like some other players out there. If I were Peters, I'd keep him with a young guy and tell that young guy to focus slightly more on his defensive game. I'd play Stone top 4 and have Valimaki/Andersson if Hamonic is indeed out.
 

Corpus X

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Was this part even necessary? Because I read your post last night and just rolled my eyes. I wasn't frustrated, just stating a POV. If you re-read my post and some of the earlier ones, it essentially agrees with the latter half of this post you made. Additionally, the Sam Bennett situation is a perfect example of this situation.

My sole quibble, is anyone who says he's here to stay. I feel it's more prudent to say he gets at least the 9 game cup of coffee. IMO we can start guessing with much more certainty around game 7-8, rather than have an attitude that he is guaranteed to be on the Flames roster the entire season. I even believe the same may occur with Dube, swapping with Mangiapane after a few games ish if he seems replaceable. All I'm saying is that I don't have a crystal ball and neither do other posters and likely management. So I think my opinion is what management is likely doing.

But as you mentioned, it's splitting hairs.

It was not meant as an insult towards you. I'm relatively new to the board (reading/posting wise) and I don't know many posters yet (some are infamous already). However, I have noticed that there is a pattern where people just can't see more than one point of view... Anyway, if my words offended I certainly apologize as that was not my intention.
 

Bounces R Way

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Valimaki will adjust and will only get better with each passing game. Honestly I doubt he’s going anywhere. Who’s better than him to take his position?

I've seen worse debuts. Much worse. Much much worse. By older and much more experienced players. The Flames have seen a lot of em. Once Valimaki gets his feet under him I think he'll be dangerous. Sees the ice really well for a teenager and has great skating. Like that he's not afraid to shoot from anywhere or try to beat a guy to a puck in the offensive zone.
 
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Fig

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It was not meant as an insult towards you. I'm relatively new to the board (reading/posting wise) and I don't know many posters yet (some are infamous already). However, I have noticed that there is a pattern where people just can't see more than one point of view... Anyway, if my words offended I certainly apologize as that was not my intention.

I think that goes with many people on all topics. Not just a few individuals chatting about hockey online.

I'm feeling like Peter Quill explaining Starlord on this... but I am kinda known as the guy who ends up posting walls of text explaining and over explaining commonly held opinions, devil's advocate opinions, and just straight up left field opinions. So perhaps I was especially a bit more annoyed at your post than necessary when you were talking about not looking at both sides of the issue, because it's always something I try to do.

But whatever, water under the bridge. We cool?
 

Lunatik

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I think that goes with many people on all topics. Not just a few individuals chatting about hockey online.

I'm feeling like Peter Quill explaining Starlord on this... but I am kinda known as the guy who ends up posting walls of text explaining and over explaining commonly held opinions, devil's advocate opinions, and just straight up left field opinions. So perhaps I was especially a bit more annoyed at your post than necessary when you were talking about not looking at both sides of the issue, because it's always something I try to do.

But whatever, water under the bridge. We cool?
Might I suggest adding a to;Dr version at the end of your posts? :naughty:
 

super6646

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Apr 16, 2018
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Big props to Hammer for standing up for Dube, hopefully he doesn't miss too much time, hopefully Ras can make the most of his opportunity if he is indeed called up.


Unbelievable this happens on the first game of the season. Hopefully andersson can push for those top 4 minutes and prove he is NHL ready.
 

Mobiandi

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Jan 17, 2015
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Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Hathaway and/or Prout come into the line-up. With Ferland gone, these two guys and Bennett are the only players with any toughness

Although, if Ras does get called up, I think he'd be on the second pairing to avoid an all-rookie third pairing
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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If Prout plays over Rasmus we should fire everyone in management. Can’t have two big slow dummies in the modern game

It’s funny that everyone loved our offseason and yet I feel like we overspent in FA and cut a good player in Kulak to keep two players that aren’t meant for the modern game in Prout and Stone.
 

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