Speculation: 2018-19 Roster Discussion #3 - Not so bad at the moment

[Name Nameless]

Having the present choice I take JVR with his contract over Stone and the length and dollars he is likely to get. I think JVR is the better goal scorer and to me goals are more important than assists. Our chances at either unfortunately are very close to zero.

Well, but if the assists continues, that means the player starts up someone else as a goalscorer... So, not totally following you there.

 

[Name Nameless]

Just don't trade Kirk. I can't say what it is, but he makes me think of Zuccarello. Something about him.

Yeah, I know they so often ask for a player, a prospect and a pick when you make trades. It's clever. And why trading is hard.

 

[Puck possession wins]

Kind of funny seeing Sean Burke and Don Maloney on the list. Both still live in Scottsdale I think.

Edit: Wasn't Chris O'Hearn our old AGM? Didn't realize he followed Don to CGY after Chayka canned him.

Burke still lives out in Scottsdale, not sure about Maloney though.

That's funny that O'Hearn is back with Maloney and Treliving in Calgary ... country clubbers at it again, haha.

 

[Jamieh]

Well, but if the assists continues, that means the player starts up someone else as a goalscorer... So, not totally following you there.

Can you get an assist without a goal? Which is more valuable? And no an assist does not mean you "set" someone up as goalies can get assists unless you thinking passing puck behind your own net is integral.

 

[Name Nameless]

Can you get an assist without a goal? Which is more valuable? And no an assist does not mean you "set" someone up as goalies can get assists unless you thinking passing puck behind your own net is integral.

The fact you cannot get an assist without a goal is actually the point.

So, you are this close to see what I mean.

And obviously, so far away.

 

[hbk]

Considering ours is better than the Rangers and we have at least two better RD than Shattenkirk for a lot less money I think I'd gladly never consider getting him, never mind actually trading for him.

I think ShattenKirk hasn’t been a great fit in nY given where they are at in their rebuild and asa RD he would better balance off our lineup versus Goligoski who will be our 3rd pairing LD next year behind Chychrun and OEL.

 

[Jamieh]

The fact you cannot get an assist without a goal is actually the point.

So, you are this close to see what I mean.

And obviously, so far away.

I am nowhere near understanding what you mean?? If it were done fairly there would either be one assist per goal or 2 points for a goal and 1 for an assist.

 

[rt]

I’m sure the Rangers would love to drop Namestnikov. I’ve like him since juniors and he strikes me as a decent reclamation project. He’s owed 4m next season, which is obviously way too much. Maybe if they retain 25% and are willing to relieve us of a contract we should regret, like Connauton (who’s owed 1.5m next season). Namestnikov has some of that W/C optionality Chayka likes. He plays a responsible two-way game and has some decent skill. He’s also both a Russian and an American.

I’d be quite pleased with Connauton for Namestnikov with 25% retained. I think the Rangers would be pretty open to it, as well. They could always bury 900kay out of his 1.375m CapHit in the minors, as a worst case scenario.

 

[_Del_]

Would love that, but I'm guessing they'd want something more.

 

[Mosby]

Panik is basically the same player, less sticky, more expensive, expiring contract. Why would they do that?

Depends. Pens are fighting for a playoff spot and Rutherford isn't shy of big moves. Panik and Rust have similar production this season, while this sort of deal could also be a chance to dump a term contract (3x3.5) without taking back any future money. A bit more wiggle room if big changes are needed in the summer (should be the case if Pens miss the playoffs).

 

[rt]

Would love that, but I'm guessing they'd want something more.

Add the Pitts sixth?

 

[RABBIT]

2 scouts watching Caps and Ducks. Burakovsky?

 

[_Del_]

KConn has basically sixth round value or less. He's his own form of retention.

So you're asking them to trade Namestnikov @under 2.2M essentially (25%[500k]+ 1.375M KConn) for a sixth and KConn?

 

[rt]

@_Del_ I think if Namestnikov was put on waivers at his current cap hit there would be no claims. I think he has marginally negative trade value. I think if Connauton was put on waivers at his current cap hit there would be no claims. I think he has marginally negative trade value.

I’m saying that the Rangers should save 1.5 in cap and gain a 6th rounder, in exchange for removing what Namestnikov brings and adding what Connauton brings. I think it’s about even.

 

[_Del_]

But Namestnikov at 2.175 for next year has value higher than a sixth. So why do they do this instead of trading him at higher retention for a year or a different asset where they don't get saddled with KConn for a sixth rounder?
They aren't that desperate for cap or cash, and if they were, there are better offers at ~50% that don't include KConn coming back.

 

[rt]

But Namestnikov at 2.175 for next year has value higher than a sixth. So why do they do this instead of trading him at higher retention for a year or a different asset where they don't get saddled with KConn for a sixth rounder?
They aren't that desperate for cap or cash, and if they were, there are better offers at ~50% that don't include KConn coming back.

Connauton can be buried in Connecticut and end up a 0.475 cap-hit. Even with the Rangers retaining 25% (1m), that’s a 1.5m cap hit for nothing, rather than a 4m cap hit for Namestnikov. It comes down to what they think they can use that 2.5m savings on. The flexibility.

 

[_Del_]

Why do that when they could just retain the extra amount and get an actual asset?

Namestnikov at ~2M has a positive value. Way more value than a sixth.

$2M cap hit on air plus a second or whatever else is much better than 1.5M on air for a sixth (and minus a contract spot w/KConn).

 

[rt]

Why do that when they could just retain the extra amount and get an actual asset?

Namestnikov at ~2M has a positive value. Way more value than a sixth.

$2M cap hit on air plus a second or whatever else is much better than 1.5M on air for a sixth (and minus a contract spot w/KConn).

They can’t? Retaining 25% and sending KConn down results in roughly 500k more in savings than they could get by retaining the max. Anyway, if they retain the max, how much more than a sixth is he worth? A 3rd? Alright, change my proposal. Namestnikov with 50% retained for a 3rd.

 

[_Del_]

I bet he'd get a late 2nd from a team for the "rental" value alone.

If they retain a million(25%) plus take KConn, they're still on the hook for 2.375M cash. A tiny increase in cap space. They're still openly in rebuild/retool as far as I know. Why is a sixth rounder and less than an extra 500k in cap (and an extra 375k in cash spending) worth more than a second or even third?

 

[rt]

He’s not a rental. And he’s on pace for 28 points. There’s zero chance he’d return a 2nd. There’s a far greater chance they’d have to give a 2nd to be rid of him. He’s closer to a negative 2nd than a positive 2nd with 1.25yrs of 4m cap remaining.

 

[SR]

He’s not a rental. And he’s on pace for 28 points. There’s zero chance he’d return a 2nd. There’s a far greater chance they’d have to give a 2nd to be rid of him. He’s closer to a negative 2nd than a positive 2nd with 1.25yrs of 4m cap remaining.

Assuming you're talking about Namestnikov, at 25% retained, I think he would have some value. Full price Namestnikov, not so much. I dont see him in the same light as you do, but as a pure value stand point, retained, he has some value.

 

[Mosby]

2 scouts watching Caps and Ducks. Burakovsky?

Good find. Not just ordinary scouts either. Hofford also doubles as Assistant GM.

I'm not particularly enamored with Burakovsky but if the price is cheap then it could be worth a try.

 

[Mosby]

I think if Connauton was put on waivers at his current cap hit there would be no claims.

I'm not so sure. Decent depth D who can play either side, can play up in the lineup, is relatively young, and can score. All for a fair contract. I think I'd take KConn for free off waivers than trade a 4th or 5th for a comparable D.

 

[_Del_]

He’s not a rental. And he’s on pace for 28 points. There’s zero chance he’d return a 2nd. There’s a far greater chance they’d have to give a 2nd to be rid of him. He’s closer to a negative 2nd than a positive 2nd with 1.25yrs of 4m cap remaining.

That's why "rental" is in quotes. I think he has higher value at 50% than a sixth. Which is really all that would matter to the Rags. A late second for a two-way guy who can play anywhere in your lineup for this year and next at 2m? Couple fewer points than Panik. Can play C if needed. You don't think Panik could snag a late second at 2M? Even at a third which was your price tag or a fourth which is worse it makes zero sense for them to skip that return for the pleasure of saving $500k cap (spending more real $) and burying KConn.

 

[rt]

No I don’t think Panik could get a 2nd. Proabbly not even a third.