2018-19 Regular Season Thread

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DancingPanther

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Jun 19, 2018
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I really feel like we can work on this formatting. Like maybe a couple sentences for each player you want to mention; maybe a few key things; more of a summarization. Hmmm. I want to help. Shocking, I know.
I type it out as I watch the game in a word doc. Kind of free flowing. Perhaps a change of standard work process is in order. I'll run it up the flagpole.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Patrick is going to be Coots 2.0. Injuries are going to curb his offensive totals for the next few seasons but he'll be strong defensively. He'll be labeled a 3C and eventually explode offensively around 24.
STRONG DEFENSIVELY?!?!?

HAVEN’T YOU HEARD??????

HES -5

And as we all know +/- is the #1 stat for any and all judgements to be made.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Any questions or concerns about the various metrics inputs should be directed toward those who are responsible for the various metrics. People like Emmanuel Perry of Corsica, the @EvolvingWild (twitter handle) twins of evolving-hockey.com, Chace McCallum (CMhockey66) on twitter known for his Goals Above Replacement Data, the people behind NaturalStatTrick, the people behind OffsideReview, etc. The answers are out there for you. These people, like most scientists, control for as many variables as possible prior to rolling out their stats for public consumption. It’s next to impossible to control for everything. Thinking that that is the only way for every one of these metrics to be useful/applicable is folly. Science isn’t perfect and neither are stats. They’re a jumping off point for further analysis.

I'm not that heavily interested in really raising my questions or concerns beyond this forum since its just a particular place I like to come and discuss hockey at. I'm just a bit jaded that people use corsi and other statistical points as pure evidence that they are right and someone else's opinion is wrong. As if the data can be mathematically boxed up and represented as a conclusion. I'm fine with people using it to enhance their point of view or question another person's point of view.

I think a lot of people view statistics as a tool like in baseball where the controls are significantly greater.
 

Lindberg

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They wouldn’t put a timeline on a head injury, which some people speculated on. So, it’s probably just a shoulder tweak or something.

But I’ve been thinking. You know how in sci-fi movies the government always wants to capture the alien to dissect it and learn about its powers? I’m not saying they should dissect Andrew MacDonald. But I’m not saying they shouldn’t dissect Andrew MacDonald.

If they put a timeline on a head injury this organization deserves to sink to the bottom. I think we've reach a point collectively where everyone knows better to do that with concussions and other related head injuries.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
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I agree with most of this, although of course this is true with data from any walk of life. Definitely is a term that I don't like to use in this context for reasons I am positive I don't have to explain. I tend to go as far as "X would have to be an outlier" and then look for signs that could be the case within the micro tracking data we do have before making up my mind. Or to give an example, Laine has some observable and measurable traits that allow you to make an argument that he's an outlier in some ways. A potential 5/6 D does not.

Hockey is in a much more base data state than the other major sports at this point in time. Hopefully the NHLPA changes some of its stances and we get access to more minutiae, but I'm not at all hopeful with Fehr at the helm and another stoppage on the horizon.

I would like to see technology be brought into the sport but I doubt it'll happen in the way I'm interested in it. The use of accelerometers and other related sensors could give a significant amount of data on puck spin, ice condition, exact player and stick position and such. Minor details that could give a lot of insight to certain plays and why they had the outcome they did.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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I agree, math does completely suck.

In kindergarten, we learned math with rods. They were little wooden blocks that were proportionally sized so if you put, for example, the 1 rod and the 2 rod together, they would be the same length as the 3 rod.

I hit my peak in mathematics.

I also hate calculus. It made my stomach hurt.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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It's worse than that, Zezel was traded for Mike Bullard. Rod was in the Ron Sutter deal.

I always get those all twisted up lol. I watched pretty much every game Rod played for the Blues in person, then got to see Zezel in person a bunch of times too. I would have been grateful, but Peter should have retired a Flyer. Maybe my all-time favorite Flyer. RIP.
 

BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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Were those rods on the metric system?

I was in kindergarten. The metric system had barely been introduced. I don't think the imperial system had even been invented.

Also, real fact: a new player on my softball team casually mentioned in conversation that Rod Brind'amour is his cousin. I demanded being present at his family get-togethers. And that he organize a family get-together immediately.
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
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I'm not that heavily interested in really raising my questions or concerns beyond this forum since its just a particular place I like to come and discuss hockey at. I'm just a bit jaded that people use corsi and other statistical points as pure evidence that they are right and someone else's opinion is wrong. As if the data can be mathematically boxed up and represented as a conclusion. I'm fine with people using it to enhance their point of view or question another person's point of view.

I think a lot of people view statistics as a tool like in baseball where the controls are significantly greater.


Are you implying that advanced statistics in hockey aren’t worthwhile since the “controls” for other sports are stronger? If so, that’s a profoundly lazy position. Tell that to NHL teams who employ data analysts. Why not use every tool at your disposal if you’re a part of an NHL front office, & coaching staff to find (& exploit) your opponent’s weaknesses?

Corsi and other statistics only imply three things about a player (or team): they’re above average, average, or below average for that specific statistic. When a player is above average in most advanced statistics, many times were talking about a pretty good player. Average stats, average player; bad stats, bad player. Is it always the case? Definitely not. However, many times it is. When stats are used in conjunction with traditional eye-test analysis, analysts are covering all their bases. I aim to incorporate the two in my writing so I’m not missing out on any valuable information.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Are you implying that advanced statistics in hockey aren’t worthwhile since the “controls” for other sports are stronger? If so, that’s a profoundly lazy position. Tell that to NHL teams who employ data analysts. Why not use every tool at your disposal if you’re a part of an NHL front office, & coaching staff to find (& exploit) your opponent’s weaknesses?

Corsi and other statistics only imply three things about a player (or team): they’re above average, average, or below average for that specific statistic. When a player is above average in most advanced statistics, many times were talking about a pretty good player. Average stats, average player; bad stats, bad player. Is it always the case? Definitely not. However, many times it is. When stats are used in conjunction with traditional eye-test analysis, analysts are covering all their bases. I aim to incorporate the two in my writing so I’m not missing out on any valuable information.

I'm implying that they don't have as much merit as a tool compared to a sport like baseball where the controls are tighter and things can be more well defined.
 

TB87

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May 30, 2018
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I'm implying that they don't have as much merit as a tool compared to a sport like baseball where the controls are tighter and things can be more well defined.

The two sports use of analytics aren’t comparable. The only statistic that the two sports share is WAR. Literally everything else is different. This is a B.S. narrative (& it always will be). “One sports analytics aren’t as controlled as another’s so the former is less valid & reliable than the latter.” B.S.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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The two sports use of analytics aren’t comparable. The only statistic that the two sports share is WAR. Literally everything else is different. This is a B.S. narrative (& it always will be). “One sports analytics aren’t as controlled as another’s so the former is less valid & reliable than the latter.” B.S.

Who implied that the sports share the same analytics?

I don't see how you can draw those conclusions. If you're collecting data and you can't control the variables or randomness of an instance than by default the data is more susceptible to either being wrong/incomplete/corrupt. The method to collect the data should be (really must be) consistently reliable and not left up to an interpretation. As far as I'm aware most metrics are collected and inputted by an individual and not through the use of computer vision which would still have some % of error. Given that it is a comparison I believe one can make that statement.
 

TB87

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May 30, 2018
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Who implied that the sports share the same analytics?

I don't see how you can draw those conclusions. If you're collecting data and you can't control the variables or randomness of an instance than by default the data is more susceptible to either being wrong/incomplete/corrupt. The method to collect the data should be (really must be) consistently reliable and not left up to an interpretation. As far as I'm aware most metrics are collected and inputted by an individual and not through the use of computer vision which would still have some % of error. Given that it is a comparison I believe one can make that statement.

“Left Up to interpretation” is fallacious. Like all statistical analyisis, the data is heavily tested and scrutinized (ad infinitum). The data is collected by the NHL and the data analysts “individuals” get the play by play data from the NHL. The individuals input the data via algorithms and some regression to calculate the stats for them. When you trash something, know the ins and outs of what you’re trashing. Since you’re unwilling to contact the people who run these stats sites with your questions and concerns, that tells me that you’re perfectly fine wallowing in ignorance. Which is your prerogative I guess. If it were me, I’d want to get all the facts before I critique something.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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JVR going on IR gives them a roster spot, but they'll need another to put Neuvirth and Knight on the team. So maybe Weise does end up going to the Phantoms.


Travis Who? :laugh:

 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Transcript of Hextall's comments on Andrew MacDonald:

"(sigh) Everybody has their ups and down during the year. I don't think he's been that bad, there's been a couple of things but you can say that about every player. For some reason with Mac it seems to always to get highlighted.

Umm, but everybody's got something going on right now. There's very few guys who get thru training camp that something didn't go on, or something in the summer, or something that they're dealing with from last season, so....

Mac will be fine."
 

SolidSnakeUS

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Transcript of Hextall's comments on Andrew MacDonald:

"(sigh) Everybody has their ups and down during the year. I don't think he's been that bad, there's been a couple of things but you can say that about every player. For some reason with Mac it seems to always to get highlighted.

Umm, but everybody's got something going on right now. There's very few guys who get thru training camp that something didn't go on, or something in the summer, or something that they're dealing with from last season, so....

Mac will be fine."

"On both sides..."
 
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