League News: 2018-19 NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) Vol. 1

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discobob

Listen... do you smell something?
Dec 2, 2009
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Leonsis bought the Caps for $85 million. It’s now valued valued somewhere north of $625 mil, around 11th most valuable in the league according to Forbes, only to go up after a Cup.

If that’s not “value”.....don’t know what to say....That’s largely on the back of #8.

I know you’re probably ONLY thinking production vs cap hit, but any discussion about the “worth” or “value” of Ovy over the life of the contract just seems dumb if it’s trying to be discussed negatively. He’s human. We all have ups and downs. I bet Ted signs that same deal 100/100 times if he had a time machine.

You are talking about something different here. The original point was about his on ice performance vs cap hit.

Of course Leonsis is happy with the contract, he won a cup and OV has lived up to what he paid. You are making this conversation out to be a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacking 10 years too late. From very early on, I thought Leonsis should have structured OVs deal in the same way other contracts were be structured at the time. It could have been done in a way where his cap hit was more like 8.5M - that would have given the team much more cap flexibility during some years where it mattered.

I'm glad they signed him PERIOD. My only issue is the characterization of this contract as a "steal" or "value". Ovechkin lived up to his deal. When you pay someone a historic contract, your reasonable expectation should be a Stanley Cup. They got what they paid for, that doesn't mean it was at a discount.
 
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Alexander the Gr8

Registered User
May 2, 2013
31,758
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Toronto
You are talking about something different here. The original point was about his on ice performance vs cap hit.

Of course Leonsis is happy with the contract, he won a cup and OV has lived up to what he paid. You are making this conversation out to be a bunch of arm-chair quarterbacking 10 years too late. From very early on, I thought Leonsis should have structured OVs deal in the same way other contracts were be structured at the time. It could have been done in a way where his cap hit was more like 8.5M - that would have given the team much more cap flexibility during some years where it mattered.

I'm glad they signed him PERIOD. My only issue is the characterization of this contract as a "steal" or "value". Ovechkin lived up to his deal. When you pay someone a historic contract, your reasonable expectation should be a Stanley Cup. They got what they paid for, that doesn't mean it was at a discount.

Ovechkin is an exceptional player, therefore he got an exceptional contract. He was bar none the best player in the world at the time it was signed and had the best season anyone has had for a very long time.

Winning the Stanley Cup has never squarely rested on one player's shoulders, no matter who the player is. The expectation was to win the Stanley Cup but a lot of stars had to be aligned for that to happen. Ovechkin has delivered far beyond his contract. Let's face it, he put hockey on the map in DC. This hockey team has 10 times more fans than it did before Ovi got here.

Ovi's deal was fair even if he had never won the Cup.
 

hockeykicker

Moderator
Dec 3, 2014
35,182
12,785
Ovie is making like 9.5M and is maybe 10th in the league for average contract cost per year. And he just led us to our first Cup in amazing style even for his HOF career.

I don't know how anyone can possibly complain about any of this.

giphy.gif
 

Vilica

Registered User
Jun 1, 2014
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Here's a partial defense of the point some of us are making. Ovechkin signed for 9.538 starting in 08-09, on a 56.7m cap. He was the highest cap hit from 08-09 to 14-15, in 15-16 Kane/Toews jumped him, in 16-17 Kopitar jumped him, and he remained 4th in 17-18. Finally, this year, he's going to be down in 8th after McDavid, Tavares, Price and Eichel all have their contracts start. So basically it has taken a decade and the cap going from 56.7 to 79.5 to push Ovechkin's cap hit out of the top 5 in the NHL.

The point that we're trying to make is that despite living up to his 13 year, 124 million dollar contract, the Caps may have been better served signing him to something like 15 years, 132 million (8.8 cap hit) or 16 years, 140 million (8.75 cap hit). Ovechkin would have still been the highest paid player in the NHL, with the largest and longest contract, but the Caps would also have an additional ~700k in cap space each year. That might only be ~1% of the cap, but in a hard cap world, every little bit helps.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,597
14,666
Absolutely armchair hindsight-powered nitpicking to quibble over that.

If Ovechkin's camp walks away from the offer, what do? Are you going to whittle down your franchise player over $700K? When he's the best player in the world at the time and the backbone of your franchise, potentially for decades?

A: NO. You do a better job of finding savings elsewhere, as Gmbm has done. McPhee's failures, and the failures of other coaches and rosters, are not Ovie's fault.

Do you think all parties were unaware that the contract would provide better value later as the cap went up? They all knew it. That's why both sides did it...to provide Ovie with a big cash boost at the moment in exchange for a long-term, team-friendly deal later.

It's asinine that weeks after winning the Cup for the first time we're arguing over savings on Ovechkin's contract 10 years ago. Unreal.
 

Acallabeth

Post approved by Ovechkin
Jul 30, 2011
9,996
1,422
Moscow
Horrible to hear about Emery :(

Ovechkin was the best player in the world when he signed his contract, and even after he stopped being #1, his contract as never the reason for the Caps' inability to win it all. Not with Brooks Laich, an ECHL level player, on a 4.5M contract, and not with the trash defensive roster we used to have.
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

Registered User
Jan 1, 2011
7,684
5,681
Emery was a bad guy. Beat his girlfriend multiple times. Assaulted the team doctor in the KHL. Showed no remorse or effort to change. I hope his friends and family find peace, but I’m not a fan of this “don’t speak ill of the dead” thing, how you act when you are living will dictate how you are remembered when you are gone.


He didn’t deserve to die so young, but the dog and pony parade like he was a saint is a bit much.
 

Sam Spade

Registered User
May 4, 2009
27,484
16,207
Maryland
Emery was a bad guy. Beat his girlfriend multiple times. Assaulted the team doctor in the KHL. Showed no remorse or effort to change. I hope his friends and family find peace, but I’m not a fan of this “don’t speak ill of the dead” thing, how you act when you are living will dictate how you are remembered when you are gone.

He didn’t deserve to die so young, but the dog and pony parade like he was a saint is a bit much.

I was thinking it, you said it. Very crappy person died a very crappy death.
 

Empty Goal Net

Do I see another GOAT?
Feb 13, 2010
4,370
3,395
Emery was a bad guy. Beat his girlfriend multiple times. Assaulted the team doctor in the KHL. Showed no remorse or effort to change. I hope his friends and family find peace, but I’m not a fan of this “don’t speak ill of the dead” thing, how you act when you are living will dictate how you are remembered when you are gone.

He didn’t deserve to die so young, but the dog and pony parade like he was a saint is a bit much.

... not to mention his unprovoked and unsportsmanlike assault on Holtby (which went largely unpunished by the league, either in game or in terms of supplemental discipline). His on-ice behavior was close to Avery-level "doesn't belong in the game."
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

Registered User
Jan 1, 2011
7,684
5,681
... not to mention his unprovoked and unsportsmanlike assault on Holtby (which went largely unpunished by the league, either in game or in terms of supplemental discipline). His on-ice behavior was close to Avery-level "doesn't belong in the game."
I didn’t include that because even though I believe it wasn’t in the scope of the game I can see how he or others would argue it was.


The other incidents are clear behaviors of assault and bullying.
 

discobob

Listen... do you smell something?
Dec 2, 2009
1,547
705
Everything
Here's a partial defense of the point some of us are making. Ovechkin signed for 9.538 starting in 08-09, on a 56.7m cap. He was the highest cap hit from 08-09 to 14-15, in 15-16 Kane/Toews jumped him, in 16-17 Kopitar jumped him, and he remained 4th in 17-18. Finally, this year, he's going to be down in 8th after McDavid, Tavares, Price and Eichel all have their contracts start. So basically it has taken a decade and the cap going from 56.7 to 79.5 to push Ovechkin's cap hit out of the top 5 in the NHL.

The point that we're trying to make is that despite living up to his 13 year, 124 million dollar contract, the Caps may have been better served signing him to something like 15 years, 132 million (8.8 cap hit) or 16 years, 140 million (8.75 cap hit). Ovechkin would have still been the highest paid player in the NHL, with the largest and longest contract, but the Caps would also have an additional ~700k in cap space each year. That might only be ~1% of the cap, but in a hard cap world, every little bit helps.

That is the exact point that I was making, but I didn't want to look up the numbers. Everyone is on the Stanley Cup high, and Ovechkin's contract has worked out well, so people don't want to nit pick.

The fact of the matter is, his cap hit was higher than it needed to be IMO. Seven years as the highest cap hit in the NHL is not a "value" contract.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,634
19,462
Absolutely armchair hindsight-powered nitpicking to quibble over that.

If Ovechkin's camp walks away from the offer, what do? Are you going to whittle down your franchise player over $700K? When he's the best player in the world at the time and the backbone of your franchise, potentially for decades?

A: NO. You do a better job of finding savings elsewhere, as Gmbm has done. McPhee's failures, and the failures of other coaches and rosters, are not Ovie's fault.

Do you think all parties were unaware that the contract would provide better value later as the cap went up? They all knew it. That's why both sides did it...to provide Ovie with a big cash boost at the moment in exchange for a long-term, team-friendly deal later.

It's asinine that weeks after winning the Cup for the first time we're arguing over savings on Ovechkin's contract 10 years ago. Unreal.

A-f***ing-men!
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

Registered User
Jan 1, 2011
7,684
5,681
I also don’t get how people are attempting to separate on ice value from overall value to the franchise. I’m sorry, contracts don’t work that way, they don’t operate in a vacuum, yes part of the reason he got the contract he got was because he is maybe the most famous player currently playing, you can’t eliminate that element.
 

um

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
15,776
5,420
toronto
I wonder how many Ovechkin Jersey's have been sold since his contract was signed. Not to mention all the other Caps merchandize he helped sell.
 
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Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,392
9,105
Quibbling over $700k because of some misguided need for “value” that’s been paid 10-fold or more.

Pathetic.
Absolutely. There are only three NHL contracts ever of longer duration than Ovechkin's: Kovalchuk, Weber & DiPietro. Only DiPietro had happened before his. Kovalchuk's deal was initially voided by the league, resulting in a forfeited first rounder, and even the revised deal was bonkers and essentially voided after three seasons. It also carries 12 years of a cap recapture penalty. Weber signed an offer sheet from Philadelphia that Nashville wisely moved after four seasons. DiPietro has another eleven years of buyouts coming to him (hello Bobby Bonilla).

So, sure, maybe they could have signed him to a 20-year deal but one can't just gloss over the risks involved at the time by playing some hindsight game. The smarter way to get the AAV down at the time was to front-load it but that wasn't overly prevalent yet in 2008. There were a couple of deals but they hadn't really defined the market yet in being the way teams sought to exploit the cap.
 
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