Rumor: 2018-19 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[KingsFan7824]

Doing something different is what made Lombardi successful.

And his emotional loyalty was also a strength at one point. Being a GM is a complicated job, completely dependent on the actions of at least 20+ other people during a season.

And "PMD" or "Offensive Defenseman" is usually shorthand for lacking effectiveness in the defensive zone.

IMO, having a defensive specialist makes it easier to work your young defensmen into the NHL by giving them a responsible player to pair them with. It can also let your offensive defensemen roam a bit more.

If we had a prime Mitchell/Scuderi type player, I'd feel totally comfortable pairing Brickley/LaDue/Fantenberg with one of them. As it stands now, I don't feel comfortable pairing those guys with any one not named Doughty.

When they had Mitchell and Scuderi, they were some of the higher paid d-men on the team. Martinez, Voynov, Muzzin, all barely taking up $1m on the cap, if that, in 2012 and 2014. Voynov was getting paid in 2014, but that was the one time. Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell, and even Regehr, they were luxuries to some extent, and the Kings no longer have the luxury of having such a luxury. Everyone had to get paid. Well, they didn't have to, but Lombardi's emotional loyalty finally became a negative after 2014. And they didn't have the next wave of cheap young players coming in. And the current vets that used to be the young guys haven't been able to lead the team anywhere.

Forbort is your defensive specialist, and Doughty, Phaneuf, Muzzin and Martinez are the veterans. LaDue and Brickley are the cheap younger guys. What else is there to do? If they could use Phaneuf's cap space for something better, that would be great, but he's here because of the Gaborik mistake.

 

[Herby]

Brickley will be an RFA whether he makes the Kings or not, a brilliant move by his agent. He is 23, will turn 24 during the season, he has played three years of college hockey, a senior world championships and that one game with the Kings. This isn't some 20 year old kid who has spent the previous 3 years playing against teenage boys, not saying he should be given a spot, but some of you guys seem to be stuck in the 90's with how long it takes for guys to be an NHL player. If your not in the show by your 24 year old season your chances are greatly reduced. If he is half as good as the Kings (and the rest of the league) thought he should be an NHL regular by Christmas at the latest..

 

[johnjm22]

And his emotional loyalty was also a strength at one point. Being a GM is a complicated job, completely dependent on the actions of at least 20+ other people during a season.

When they had Mitchell and Scuderi, they were some of the higher paid d-men on the team. Martinez, Voynov, Muzzin, all barely taking up $1m on the cap, if that, in 2012 and 2014. Voynov was getting paid in 2014, but that was the one time. Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell, and even Regehr, they were luxuries to some extent, and the Kings no longer have the luxury of having such a luxury. Everyone had to get paid. Well, they didn't have to, but Lombardi's emotional loyalty finally became a negative after 2014. And they didn't have the next wave of cheap young players coming in. And the current vets that used to be the young guys haven't been able to lead the team anywhere.

Forbort is your defensive specialist, and Doughty, Phaneuf, Muzzin and Martinez are the veterans. LaDue and Brickley are the cheap younger guys. What else is there to do? If they could use Phaneuf's cap space for something better, that would be great, but he's here because of the Gaborik mistake.

I'm talking about whether or not defensive defensemen are still valuable and/or would be beneficial to the team. You seem to be talking about a different subject.

 

[Herby]

I'm talking about whether or not defensive defensemen are still valuable and/or would be beneficial to the team. You seem to be talking about a different subject.

They will always have some value, especially on a team that may have a couple of defenseman who are limited on the PK. I mean even if he played today a guy like Mattias Norstrom would still have a ton of value to an NHL team because he could move. But yeah some guys back in the day that carved out long careers as defensive guys would struggle greatly. I mean how would a Craig Ludwig do in today's NHL?

When I think of bad, boring deadpuck era hockey in the late 90's he is the one guy I think of. Skated worse than me, just played physical and blocked shots with those massive shin guards.

 

[kingsfan28]

At the draft the TSN expects ripped our defense and said we'll be in a world of hurt if we don't fix it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They will always have some value, especially on a team that may have a couple of defenseman who are limited on the PK. I mean even if he played today a guy like Mattias Norstrom would still have a ton of value to an NHL team because he could move. But yeah some guys back in the day that carved out long careers as defensive guys would struggle greatly. I mean how would a Craig Ludwig do in today's NHL?

When I think of bad, boring deadpuck era hockey in the late 90's he is the one guy I think of. Skated worse than me, just played physical and blocked shots with those massive shin guards.

I was always impressed he was able to move at all in those goalie pads under socks

 

[KingsFan7824]

I'm talking about whether or not defensive defensemen are still valuable and/or would be beneficial to the team. You seem to be talking about a different subject.

Forbort is your defensive defenseman. He's just not the veteran that Scuderi was. Folin was here, but he's not Mitchell or Greene. MacD might be fighting for a spot come camp, but he's not Regehr. McNabb was the same way.

In 10-11, Mitchell, Scuderi, and Greene were the highest paid d-men on the team. Once the luxury of that disappears because you have to pay the skill guys, you're left to pick between the Forbort's and Folin's of the world. Unless you draft better defensive defenseman, but rarely do people want to see a pick wasted on a guy like that. We see what happened with Forbort. Most would rather take the chance on skill.

Defensive d-men are valuable, and it would be beneficial if they had another one or two on the team. Doughty, Muzzin, and Martinez are 3 of the top 4 in ES ice time, 3 of the top 4 in PP ice time, and 3 of the top 4 in SH ice time. Martinez isn't the greatest defensive presence, and I think Muzzin has been very awkward in the defensive zone the last few years. In 13-14, M&M were the two least used guys on the PK.

 

[johnjm22]

Forbort is your defensive defenseman. He's just not the veteran that Scuderi was. Folin was here, but he's not Mitchell or Greene. MacD might be fighting for a spot come camp, but he's not Regehr. McNabb was the same way.

In 10-11, Mitchell, Scuderi, and Greene were the highest paid d-men on the team. Once the luxury of that disappears because you have to pay the skill guys, you're left to pick between the Forbort's and Folin's of the world. Unless you draft better defensive defenseman, but rarely do people want to see a pick wasted on a guy like that. We see what happened with Forbort. Most would rather take the chance on skill.

Defensive d-men are valuable, and it would be beneficial if they had another one or two on the team. Doughty, Muzzin, and Martinez are 3 of the top 4 in ES ice time, 3 of the top 4 in PP ice time, and 3 of the top 4 in SH ice time. Martinez isn't the greatest defensive presence, and I think Muzzin has been very awkward in the defensive zone the last few years. In 13-14, M&M were the two least used guys on the PK.

You've used an awful lot of words to basically say you agree with me.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Unpopular opinions: offensive defensemen are actually overvalued. That John Carlson contract is a poison pill. They are amplifiers, though--great on a good to great team, terrible on an average to bad team. With the exception of the very top guys, like Burns and Karlsson, who are instant offense themselves. I'm talking about the upper-middle-class and less, guys like Carlson, Shattenkirk, even THUS FAR Klingberg, though I think he'll be fine in the long run (just uber sheltered by literally two pairings of defensive d-men behind him).

 

[Kingspiracy]

I'm usually late to the party with things, but there was a pretty sweet interview with Quick on the insider page. In case you missed it.



Phillips, Thomas to WJC showcase; Mitchell; Buchberger; local products; more - LA Kings Insider

 

[Reaper45]

I was always impressed he was able to move at all in those goalie pads under socks

Ha i dont remember his legs like that haha that looks photoshopped. I think back on a guy like Derian Hatcher. He skated how Eric Karros ran. Always blew my mind lumbering guys like that could stay in the league.

 

[Fishhead]

Unpopular opinions: offensive defensemen are actually overvalued. That John Carlson contract is a poison pill. They are amplifiers, though--great on a good to great team, terrible on an average to bad team. With the exception of the very top guys, like Burns and Karlsson, who are instant offense themselves. I'm talking about the upper-middle-class and less, guys like Carlson, Shattenkirk, even THUS FAR Klingberg, though I think he'll be fine in the long run (just uber sheltered by literally two pairings of defensive d-men behind him).

I totally agree with this. It's the flavor of the month right now, and will probably be so for the near future. Not so long ago the more physical defensive guys were getting more than they were worth, it's just part of the cycle I guess.

What's going to hurt some teams is their GM's are confusing "great offensive defensemen" with "difference maker" when they are handing out these contracts.

 

[Reaper45]

I totally agree with this. It's the flavor of the month right now, and will probably be so for the near future. Not so long ago the more physical defensive guys were getting more than they were worth, it's just part of the cycle I guess.

What's going to hurt some teams is their GM's are confusing "great offensive defensemen" with "difference maker" when they are handing out these contracts.

It's a cycle indeed. Remember when Bobby freaking Holik and his defensive acumen ended up with 10 million a season or whatever it was pre cap? GMs never learn.

 

[KingsHockey24]

What's the deal with Slava Voynov; is he coming back or what.

Wasn't he cleared to work in the US or somthin?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I totally agree with this. It's the flavor of the month right now, and will probably be so for the near future. Not so long ago the more physical defensive guys were getting more than they were worth, it's just part of the cycle I guess.

What's going to hurt some teams is their GM's are confusing "great offensive defensemen" with "difference maker" when they are handing out these contracts.

Thats the best description of it, I think. To some degree, it makes sense to give guys with potential a better look--but GMs are confusing guys crushing softer minutes and matchups with great all-around guys then acting surprised when they get crushed with defensive minutes and extra responsibility and you even see it on HF with the BS statement "the best defense is not staying in your own end" and it's like no shit you'd better not end up getting shots on your net with 70% Ozone starts and 3rd line matchups. The good ones outproduce their problems to a degree, but people often confuse being barely a net positive with being a difference maker. Sure you need guys who can score/produce because you're going to get scored on, but a lot of these players are the problem within the solution. Even the absolute best corsi guys in a given year are seeing 40+% of the shots go their way have to be able to mitigate that somehow. Hell even saw it in EK's crazy point-producing season, the Sens were actually worse by nearly a full goal per 60 with him on the ice with him off due to no zone awareness and terrible pinches to make plays.

 

[johnjm22]

It's not easy to measure the contributions of a defensive defensemen. For an offensive minded dman you can simply look at the point totals. That's why they'll always get paid more.

I would take prime Willie Mitchell over any defenseman on the Kings roster not named Doughty.

I look at guys like Martinez/Fantenberg/LaDue and I see a lot of redundancy.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Unpopular opinions: offensive defensemen are actually overvalued. That John Carlson contract is a poison pill. They are amplifiers, though--great on a good to great team, terrible on an average to bad team. With the exception of the very top guys, like Burns and Karlsson, who are instant offense themselves. I'm talking about the upper-middle-class and less, guys like Carlson, Shattenkirk, even THUS FAR Klingberg, though I think he'll be fine in the long run (just uber sheltered by literally two pairings of defensive d-men behind him).

Value is subjective. A lot depends on the timing too. When a guy is a free agent. How much are you, worth to me, right now. Like Carlson. He was basically the only defenseman available, and coming off a career year, and coming off the Cup.

If every team could get a Doughty, Karlsson, Burns, Hedman, they would wait until they were available. Have to pay someone though.

 

[YP44]

It's not easy to measure the contributions of a defensive defensemen. For an offensive minded dman you can simply look at the point totals. That's why they'll always get paid more.

I would take prime Willie Mitchell over any defenseman on the Kings roster not named Doughty.

I look at guys like Martinez/Fantenberg/LaDue and I see a lot of redundancy.

I agree with the exception of Martinez. Before last year I thought he would be perfect trade bait but I really liked his game last year.

 

[YP44]

What's the deal with Slava Voynov; is he coming back or what.

Wasn't he cleared to work in the US or somthin?

Everything i have read is that it is going to be a long process before we hear anything, and even if/when he is cleared to comeback a suspension is probable.

One thing I have not heard anything on is that we all know LA will hold his rights. Assuming he is permitted to return does he comeback at his old contract or is he like an RFA where a new deal would be required?

 

[Sol]

As long as the game keeps getting faster, two way defenseman will be more valuable. Their prices are inflated but they are thriving in the current NHL.

The NHL right now has phased out defensive defenseman. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing if the NHL is trending towards speed. Slow stay at home defenseman get exposed way too easily.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Value is subjective. A lot depends on the timing too. When a guy is a free agent. How much are you, worth to me, right now. Like Carlson. He was basically the only defenseman available, and coming off a career year, and coming off the Cup.

If every team could get a Doughty, Karlsson, Burns, Hedman, they would wait until they were available. Have to pay someone though.

Totally agree on 'timing' but not many defensive specialists get inflated contracts.

Value is also definitely subjective, but I guess what I'm saying is points and corsi in a vacuum (deployment be damned) get too many dollars, defensive prowess (whatever that looks like) not enough. Unless you're Vlasic late-career, but he's a good example as look at his last few deals. The guys that are constantly argued as the best defensive defensemen in the league had these deals: Vlasic 3.1 and 4.25 thru his prime; Tanev 2 and 4.45; Hjalmarsson 3.5 and 4.1; etc. Going rate seems to be between 3-4.9 for the last decade. Maybe Vlasic is now the gold standard and he's topped out at 7.

That kind of thinking allowed us to take advantage over the years though, signing prime guys like Scuderi, Mitchell, Regehr, even Greene to deals that got laughed at by many outside (LOL 10 POINTS LAST YEAR, Regehr is dead, etc.) but enabled us to rock out.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

As long as the game keeps getting faster, two way defenseman will be more valuable. Their prices are inflated but they are thriving in the current NHL.

The NHL right now has phased out defensive defenseman. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing if the NHL is trending towards speed. Slow stay at home defenseman get exposed way too easily.

Disagree that defensive d-men have phased out unless you're talking about total pluggers. Two way d are valuable, but not many can actually play at a high level, most of them are specialists to one side or other--those are the defensive d-men I'm talking about. You have to be able to think or skate and make a first pass at least these days. I don't think you're going to see many pin-and-dump guys anymore for sure. But a lot of these puck moving guys look godly on a 2nd pairing, then get exposed when they get the heavy minutes--that's the overvalue I'm talking about. And that's fine if that's the role they play on your team--like Colin Miller, Krug, etc.--the problem rises when you pay Shattenkirk to be your #2 and then wonder why he can't rise to the occasion. People are blinded by some flash and numbers and the ability to 'defend well' against 3rd liners when you start 70% of your shifts in the other zone.

 

[The Butcher]

Please no Slava Voynov. I don't really care if he plays in the NHL again but I hope it's not with the Kings. F Slava, not a good guy.

I really think his actions set the Kings way back and we are still recovering to this day. I remember hearing a rumor that the incident really divided the locker room in 2015.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I for one appreciate that Quick wears the same mask every season. It's become iconic.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Please no Slava Voynov. I don't really care if he plays in the NHL again but I hope it's not with the Kings. F Slava, not a good guy.

I really think his actions set the Kings way back and we are still recovering to this day. I remember hearing a rumor that the incident really divided the locker room in 2015.

zzzzzzzz

I hope he comes back....with the Kings.