Prospect Info: 2018-19 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #5

Who is the Flyers #5 SKATER prospect?

  • Aube-Kubel, Nicolas

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bernhardt, David

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bunnaman, Connor

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cates, Noah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fazleev, Radel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Friedman, Mark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ginning, Adam

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Goulbourne, Tyrell

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hain, Gavin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hogberg, Linus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kalynuk, Wyatt

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Laberge, Pascal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lycksell, Olle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martel, Danick

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • St. Ivany, Jack

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strome, Matthew

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sushko, Maxim

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Twarynski, Carson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vasiliev, Valeri

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Warren, Brendan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Westfalt, Marcus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Willcox, Reece

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wylie, Wyatte

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    141
  • Poll closed .

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
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Huron of the Lakes
The problem with too many good players isn’t with the main team but that the Flyers do a horrid job creating trade value with their prospects. It’s just an, “Oh well,” type situation.
 
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wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
The problem with too many good players isn’t with the main team but that the Flyers do a horrid job creating trade value with their prospects. It’s just an, “Oh well,” type situation.
You mean like trading a 5th Marody and turning him into a 3rd ?
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
You mean like trading a 5th Marody and turning him into a 3rd ?

He was never technically in the organization or developed here. If it wasn’t for Chiarelli he would have just walked next year. If he did sign, I bet that 3rd round value would have diminished with any AHL time.

And I’m talking higher value players than him.
 
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Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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Should be #1 And #2 yep! Playing with this organization for awhile,these two guys!
Head and shoulders skillwise...

Skillwise, Vorobyev is not head & shoulders above Allison or Ratcliffe. Hes a different player altogether than those two and his standout skills dont surpass Wade or Isaacs.
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
Jun 29, 2018
3,691
3,566
Still can’t figure out how to vote in a poll on mobile. Ratcliffe should’ve been 4, so I’m going with him again.
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
He was never technically in the organization or developed here. If it wasn’t for Chiarelli he would have just walked next year. If he did sign, I bet that 3rd round value would have diminished with any AHL time.

And I’m talking higher value players than him.
You said the Flyers do a horrible job creating trade value with their prospects . He was a prospect and they created greater value out of him then they actually spent to get him . If you are talking about Hextall not using his prospects as trade bait to land some more established players then fine , but that ain't his style . He values his prospects and wants to build from within. I have said on here i'm a Jets fan as well and Chevy has done the same thing , draft well and build from within it also helps with cap control
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
You said the Flyers do a horrible job creating trade value with their prospects . He was a prospect and they created greater value out of him then they actually spent to get him . If you are talking about Hextall not using his prospects as trade bait to land some more established players then fine , but that ain't his style . He values his prospects and wants to build from within. I have said on here i'm a Jets fan as well and Chevy has done the same thing , draft well and build from within it also helps with cap control

They didn’t create value with a player who was never in the organization. Marody created his own value before he set foot here at the University of Michigan. Hextall capitalized on a college hungry GM. That’s well and good, but I think it was clear I meant players who are playing or will play in the organization under their control and usage. They are often put in positions where their value can only depreciate, whether you want to trade them or not. And you never really know what possibilities may occur.

Does that sound like I want us to immediately trade our prospects for established vets? When have I — a person who spends time watching these players — ever said such things? It’s only a question of value. Prospect value tends to drop in this organization the second they turn pro.
 
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Flyerfan13

Registered User
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Nov 17, 2016
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Still can’t figure out how to vote in a poll on mobile. Ratcliffe should’ve been 4, so I’m going with him again.

Not sure if this may be why or still in effect but hf had a rule u could not vote in any poll posted until u hit 200 posts
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
They didn’t create value with a player who was never in the organization. Marody created his own value before he set foot here at the University of Michigan. Hextall capitalized on a college hungry GM. That’s well and good, but I think it was clear I meant players who are playing or will play in the organization under their control and usage. They are often put in positions where their value can only depreciate, whether you want to trade them or not. And you never really know what possibilities may occur.

Does that sound like I want us to immediately trade our prospects for established vets? When have I — a person who spends time watching these players — ever said such things? It’s only a question of value. Prospect value tends to drop in this organization the second they turn pro.
Teams like Vegas and now Seattle are relying on this it,s not just a Flyers thing it's all over and always has been .
 

Philly Fanatik

"They're going home!"
Jun 24, 2017
2,512
1,773
Clarenville,NL,Canada
Skillwise, Vorobyev is not head & shoulders above Allison or Ratcliffe. Hes a different player altogether than those two and his standout skills dont surpass Wade or Isaacs.
Misha has been playing against men for the last few years...and hasn't looked out of place!
Allison and Ratcliffe need experience to rate yet!
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
They didn’t create value with a player who was never in the organization. Marody created his own value before he set foot here at the University of Michigan. Hextall capitalized on a college hungry GM. That’s well and good, but I think it was clear I meant players who are playing or will play in the organization under their control and usage. They are often put in positions where their value can only depreciate, whether you want to trade them or not. And you never really know what possibilities may occur.

Does that sound like I want us to immediately trade our prospects for established vets? When have I — a person who spends time watching these players — ever said such things? It’s only a question of value. Prospect value tends to drop in this organization the second they turn pro.
Zac Rinaldo was drafted in the 6th round and returned a 3rd round pick.

Checkmate.
 

NYCFlyer

Registered User
Nov 23, 2002
1,364
400
NYC
Just a rough estimate, with quibbles no doubt....

PLAYERHANDSSKATINGIQPLAYMAKINGGOAL SCORINGDEFENSEPHYSICALITYTOTAL
Rubtsov 60 50 60 60 50 60 55 395
Allison60554045604560365
Ratcliffe45 (50)605545605045 (50)360 (370)
Laczynski5545 (50)5555505060370 (375)
Vorobyev50506060456055380
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I really don't know who to vote for. I think Laczynski and Vorobyev over-perform here due to sheer versatility and brains and lack of standout weaknesses. But I don't know if they have a top 6/9 future here -- not because of talent but because of numbers and preconceived roles. In a vacuum, you could argue Misha as a quality 3C > middle 6 wingers. But I find it difficult to vote for him above some others with a more flashy tool.

I think Allison underperforms due to brains, while having the 2nd best talent but a clearer role perhaps. I struggle to vote for someone who I think has below average IQ. But his production is arguably the best at that level, so whatever weaknesses he has haven't hampered him yet.

I think Ratcliffe is the safe pick because nothing blatantly stands out in terms of ability to translate and even his weaknesses have the potential to get to average and are already trending that way (shown in brackets), and his future role seems somewhat clear. He and Allison might have the clearest path to PP time as well, which is vital.

Rubtsov, for me, has the best combination of skill+brains but also the most questionable level of production from this past season. On sheer tools, he's #1 by a healthy margin. There's a reason he was a consensus 15-20 pick on draft day. He doesn't have the typical red flags. But production is important and you have to decide who is and isn't the real Rubtsov going forward. What do you weight most? Decisions!
Where do you factor in competitiveness, drive and intensity? Some people might view that as part of HIQ but I think its a totally separate evaluation.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
They didn’t create value with a player who was never in the organization. Marody created his own value before he set foot here at the University of Michigan. Hextall capitalized on a college hungry GM. That’s well and good, but I think it was clear I meant players who are playing or will play in the organization under their control and usage. They are often put in positions where their value can only depreciate, whether you want to trade them or not. And you never really know what possibilities may occur.

Does that sound like I want us to immediately trade our prospects for established vets? When have I — a person who spends time watching these players — ever said such things? It’s only a question of value. Prospect value tends to drop in this organization the second they turn pro.

You can't really create value with prospects until they're in your system for a couple years.
Reason is simple - signalling.
A player who is in your system has usually spent two years in juniors, and is now in the AHL.
That signals other teams that he's a developmental project because top prospects "pass jail and go directly to the NHL."
Even players like Lindblom only spend a few months in the AHL acclimating to the NA game.
But all but the top prospects tend to spend 1-2 years in the AHL and for defensemen, up to 3 years (after that you become a pumpkin).

So a player, by spending a couple years in the AHL, has lesser value UNTIL they jump to the NHL, which signals they may be a NHL player.
So Morin had his highest value on draft night (#11), then steadily declined as he didn't dominate juniors or the AHL. If he gets to the NHL and shows he belongs, his value jumps up again.

The value provided by coaching doesn't really materialize until they get to the NHL unless they dominate the AHL (ppg, .920 S%, great advanced metrics).
Simply playing well may mean they're well coached or just they're a AAAA player who can look good against minor league players. Varone was AHL MVP.
Once teams have NHL film, they'll make their own judgments about players, and if they think they're underutilized, will try to "steal" them.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,364
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Wtf???? People seriously think Allison is a better prospect than Vorobyev?

He was one the best players in the NCAA before his injury. He has a near-elite level shot. His shot is more impressive than anything in Vorobyevs arsenal. So, yeah.

Since its so outlandish are you able to elaborate why?
 

NicolasAubeKubel

Registered User
Mar 3, 2018
1,384
1,442
He was one the best players in the NCAA before his injury. He has a near-elite level shot. His shot is more impressive than anything in Vorobyevs arsenal. So, yeah.

Since its so outlandish are you able to elaborate why?

Allison is coming off a torn ACL. Vorobyev has elite vision and defensive game+hockey sense to play the middle, drives play, has produced at every level and was dominant at the WJC. Has better edgework than Allison IMO.

He will show the point production/higher upside in year 2 at LHV. I haven’t watched a ton of Allison, I’ve just watched ALOT of Vorobyev and love him as a prospect
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,192
Skillwise, Vorobyev is not head & shoulders above Allison or Ratcliffe. Hes a different player altogether than those two and his standout skills dont surpass Wade or Isaacs.

Misha falls into the Couturier mold. His brain, vision, and intstincts are his best asset. He pretty much is a poor man's Couturier, and I mean that as a huge complement.

Vorobyev has the ability, like Couturier, to make every linemate better and impact in the game in so many ways. I'm still trying to figure out how he managed such an impressive Corsi number this year. While his most common linemate, Fazleev, finished near the bottom in 5v5 Corsi on LV.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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Allison is coming off a torn ACL. Vorobyev has elite vision and defensive game+hockey sense to play the middle, drives play, has produced at every level and was dominant at the WJC. Has better edgework than Allison IMO.

He will show the point production/higher upside in year 2 at LHV

Elite vision? Lets settle down. Elite vision is what Giroux and Frost possess. Vorobyev is not at that level as a prospect.
 

NicolasAubeKubel

Registered User
Mar 3, 2018
1,384
1,442
Elite vision? Lets settle down. Elite vision is what Giroux and Frost possess. Vorobyev is not at that level as a prospect.

Both of them have a much better shot/goal scoring ability.

If it’s not elite vision, it’s couturier level vision, which is still extremely high level, but point taken.
 
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