Prospect Info: 2018-19 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #4

Who is the Flyers #4 SKATER prospect?

  • Aube-Kubel, Nicolas

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bernhardt, David

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cates, Noah

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fazleev, Radel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Friedman, Mark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ginning, Adam

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Goulbourne, Tyrell

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hain, Gavin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hogberg, Linus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kalynuk, Wyatt

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Laberge, Pascal

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Laczynski, Tanner

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lycksell, Olle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martel, Danick

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • St. Ivany, Jack

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Strome, Matthew

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sushko, Maxim

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Twarynski, Carson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vasiliev, Valeri

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Warren, Brendan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Westfalt, Marcus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Willcox, Reece

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,619
16,426
I went O’Brien. 19th overall in a good draft
class. Seems to have a ton of physical talent
& a great motor, so if the Flyers’ scouts aren’t swayed by his level of competition, then I’m buying in.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,579
123,068
That's a valid point, but it's not like Allison was a 6th or 7th rounder. He has some pedigree and was having an excellent D+2 year before his injury.

For sure. Allison is a gem. I have no issue with anyone choosing Allison and a few others as our 4th best prospect. I am just defending the selection of O'Brien.
 

Alex K

Registered User
Apr 20, 2016
2,533
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Earth
O'Brien was selected higher in his draft class than all 4 of them and you're bewildered as to how some people like him more?
I like him too, but I'm not ready to place him high on this list yet.
JOB's upside is just too high to ignore in my opinion. His package of elite skill, grit, tenacity, and work ethic could yield a truly phenomenal player. I'm really excited to see how he does this year in Providence.
That's the point, we need too see him against higher competition first. I don't ignore his skills oposite I expect a lot of him.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
5,932
1,233
Went with Allison. Don't know how JOB can be above Allison, Ratcliffe and Vorobyov. Right now even in Rubtsov I have more confidence than in JOB. Let's look at him in NCAA and then evaluate.
Unlike those other three, JOB doesn't have lead feet.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,503
104,656
I'd really like to see some specific discussion on this vote because there are so many defensible ways to go.

I fully understand I'm on an island here, but I was between Rubtsov and JOB. The only reason Allison wasn't there as well was the injury. Ratcliffe looks good too and he'll be coming soon, but I think people see 6'6" and toss an unrealistic high ceiling label on him. I don't see the skills people typically describe in that way.

I suspect I don't have to defend having Allison or JOB up in this tier, but assuredly Rubtsov. Here's the thing. The previous years didn't get erased from history. He could be a guy that has just stalled out, but I vote on reasonable peak. In Rubtsov, I have the best stretch of play from any of these guys (minus JOB because I haven't seen enough), I have the one I was highest on going into the draft by a mile, and I have a guy who could stick in the middle. He has a higher flat bust potential at this point than some others for sure, but the reasonable ceiling is still there.
 

Dumpster Flyers

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
5,932
1,233
Are those the same type of "lead feet" that prevented Couturier from ever being more than a 3C?
They’re the same type of lead feet that prevented countless players from being in the NHL. The exception is not the rule, and it’s disingenuous to dismiss the issue.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

THE TORTURE NEVER STOPS
Sponsor
Sep 24, 2009
23,491
4,471
NJ
I'm not feeling the JOB love at #4. I think his ceiling and floor or too speculative to put ahead of a guy like Ratcliffe or Allison (or even Rubstov or Vorobyov). For me anyway, I am just concerned about the competition that he played against. That will be quickly assuaged by a good showing at Providence, but I think for me he is going to be at the highest #6 behind Ratcliffe and Allison. It seems like even the most common projections for JOB are a middle sixer. Looking at a guy like Ratcliffe or Allison that has the potential to be a top six guy, I just can't put him ahead of them.

If he wows at Providence, then this will obviously change that, but I don't even think we are going to see that because my understanding is that Providence plays a pretty underwhelming and defensive style (please correct me if I am wrong about that because I am just basing off of a couple random blurbs I've read about the team so this could be wholly incorrect).
 

Alex91

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
2,474
741
Went with JOB based solely on his upside and ceiling still. I wouldn’t put money on him yet until he proves it vs better competition, but his ceiling is still a lot better compared to Rat who is next for me.
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
37,442
155,293
Huron of the Lakes
Ratcliffe looks good too and he'll be coming soon, but I think people see 6'6" and toss an unrealistic high ceiling label on him. I don't see the skills people typically describe in that way.

tumblr_o5n9iyIrwz1vqqh19o1_500.gif


(I'll give a real reply hold on lol)

Went Lycksell

I wish I loved something as much as you love little Olle.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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Ratcliffe had a great post-draft season for a PF, then followed up with a better playoff performance.
And when Hextall starts praising his hands . . .
He's also has speed, as a big man he will probably need years to improve his skating mechanics, but he's not Strome.
"He was one of the top performers at the combine in a sprint challenge that involved several changes of direction, finishing ninth in one of the two agility tests."

Allison is more polished, but at 6'2 205 (or whatever he weighs these days) you'd expect him to be ahead of a giraffe.
He was having a great college season before he was injured.

You could go either way, it says something when Laczynski, who has shown steady improvement at Ohio State, is clearly behind these two.
Laczynski is listed at 6'1 190, which is fictional, looking at the picture with Allison, he has to be at least 205 or more.

Marody, the least talented of the NCAA trio, was traded for a 3rd rd pick.
 
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Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
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I fully understand I'm on an island here, but I was between Rubtsov and JOB. The only reason Allison wasn't there as well was the injury. Ratcliffe looks good too and he'll be coming soon, but I think people see 6'6" and toss an unrealistic high ceiling label on him. I don't see the skills people typically describe in that way.

I suspect I don't have to defend having Allison or JOB up in this tier, but assuredly Rubtsov. Here's the thing. The previous years didn't get erased from history. He could be a guy that has just stalled out, but I vote on reasonable peak. In Rubtsov, I have the best stretch of play from any of these guys (minus JOB because I haven't seen enough), I have the one I was highest on going into the draft by a mile, and I have a guy who could stick in the middle. He has a higher flat bust potential at this point than some others for sure, but the reasonable ceiling is still there.

Rubtsov was my guy in 2015. His Chicoutimi sample was fantastic in 2016, and I watched almost every game. It's hard to rank him too low for me because those years didn't not happen -- I've defended him this year, even though my scant non-WJC viewings weren't as good as I remembered. I was actually wondering if he'd fall out of the top 10 for many, let alone people still ranking him top 5. I don't think he has any "bust" potential, even as a role player, since his game is so pro-style (his AHL season will be key), but that notion of a player's likelihood of hitting their ceiling, as Hextall oft mentions, is something I toss about upstairs.

German has a skill-set and intelligence combo only matched by Farabee and JOB. He's an atypical case because there is nothing stopping him from having top 6 ability but his own willingness to tap into that ability -- though I still think his skating needs slight work too. It's not work ethic or attention to detail; it's a mental block where he is hesitant to play aggressive and confident with pucks. Even his on-ice demeanor can tilt low-key. Though my memories of him in previous years was being more aggressive off-puck than he was this year too. Farabee and JOB don't have that block. I'm willing to give German a mulligan, and off-ice issues (injuries, culture, poor fit) could be playing a sizable role. I think it's okay to have the player who had 43 points in 49 games behind two recent 1sts with more sheen, certainly Farabee. After them?

I've turned around on Ratcliffe 1 year later. I still don't think he has great puck handles in tight, his passing is pretty average, and he needs to improve physically in tight spaces, but I've liked his improvement, and he still has many good (realistic) features: net front work, PP ability, shot, compete, skating, size if he can use it better, IQ, solid off puck play. I'd be willing to vote him #5/6. Allison......I don't worry about his injury. We have a large sample to vote for him or not vote for him. If I thought he was the player many do, I'd vote him #3 or 4. But his hockey sense has always bothered me, and even Mark Edward and Pronman have mentioned it. It's questionable enough for me to make me think. He has terrific tools and it hasn't hampered him at the college level in production, but too much floating around positionally at both ends, routine weird decisions on/off puck. He’s fine around the net and off the rush (he scores a lot off the rush if you go through his highlights), but his reads can break down too often in the cycle. He's probably the type who's not easy to have chemistry with. Laczynski has always been my guy, but his ceiling here I'm not sure about (and he needs to improve his feet). Vorobyev is similar. I like grouping those two. It's a bitch for me ranking Ratcliffe, Rubtsov, Allison, Laczynski, and Vorobyev.
 
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Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,691
42,636
They’re the same type of lead feet that prevented countless players from being in the NHL. The exception is not the rule, and it’s disingenuous to dismiss the issue.

There's no issue because they don't have lead feet. We're not talking about Strome.
 
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runkle

Registered User
Feb 19, 2006
1,301
98
I went with Rubtsov, because I still like his upside. I didn't see him too much with Acadie-Bathurst this year, but both Magua? (I think) and Hextall have said that he's just not being as aggressive offensively. That's pretty curable.

I went with Rubtsov too based on upside and readiness, but it's not an easy decision. Everything I have seen and read about O'Brien has me extremely excited about the kid. He also seems an extremely likeable sort. I keep on feeling like he is Konecny the center version and I cannot imagine how much fun it would be to have those two annoying the crap out of other teams sometime in the not too distant future.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The problem with Rubtsov is outside of a few games two years ago, he just hasn't been dominant anywhere. MHL, International, last year in the Q, a ho hum Q playoff. Playing against your same age peers I just expect top prospects to dominate.
There just seems to be something missing, compare to Couts who is also a smart, two way player, he tore up the Q at 16 and 17 years old.

Makes me wonder if there's any "there there" with Rubtsov, though if he just turns out to be a smart, consistent bottom six winger who plays good defense, is excellent on the PK and pots 20-30 points a year, he could have a long career. And that's really not a bad outcome for #22.

Magua, are we getting spoiled? Allison isn't that smart, well, Voracek isn't that smart, Hartnell was an adventure at times.
I suppose not every prospect is going to have off the chart hockey IQ (though it seems most do these days!).
Just put him on a line with Patrick, Frost or Vorobyev, they'll cover for him.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,503
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Rubtsov was my guy in 2015. His Chicoutimi sample was fantastic in 2016, and I watched almost every game. It's hard to rank him too low for me because those years didn't not happen -- I've defended him this year, even though my scant non-WJC viewings weren't as good as I remembered. I was actually wondering if he'd fall out of the top 10 for many, let alone people still ranking him top 5. I don't think he has any "bust" potential, even as a role player, since his game is so pro-style (his AHL season will be key), but that notion of a player's likelihood of hitting their ceiling, as Hextall oft mentions, is something I toss about upstairs.

German has a skill-set and intelligence combo only matched by Farabee and JOB. He's an atypical case because there is nothing stopping him from having top 6 ability but his own willingness to tap into that ability -- though I still think his skating needs slight work too. It's not work ethic or attention to detail; it's a mental block where he is hesitant to play aggressive and confident with pucks. Even his on-ice demeanor can tilt low-key. Though my memories of him in previous years was being more aggressive off-puck than he was this year too. Farabee and JOB don't have that block. I'm willing to give German a mulligan, and off-ice issues (injuries, culture, poor fit) could be playing a sizable role. I think it's okay to have the player who had 43 points in 49 games behind two recent 1sts with more sheen. After them?

I've turned around on Ratcliffe 1 year later. I still don't think he has great puck handles in tight, his passing is pretty average, and he needs to improve physically in tight spaces, but I've liked his improvement. I'd be willing to vote him #5/6. Allison......I don't worry about his injury. We have a large sample to vote for him or not vote for him. If I thought he was the player many do, I'd vote him #3 or 4. But his hockey sense has always bothered me, and even Mark Edward and Pronman have mentioned it. It's a thing to me. He has terrific tools and it hasn't hampered him at the college level in production, but Too much floating around positionally at both ends, routine weird decisions on/off puck. He’s fine around the net and off the rush (he scores a lot off the rush if you go through his highlights), but his reads can break down too often in the cycle. Laczynski has always been my guy, but his ceiling here I'm not sure about (and he needs to improve his feet). Vorobyev is similar. I like grouping those two. It's a ***** ranking these players.

I will attempt to be brief and probably fail miserably.

I agree with most of the individual evaluations here. I just rank my prospects a little differently. I vote almost strictly on realistic upside, which I would define as reasonably positive development but not everything going sunshine and rainbows. It’s basically impossible for me to move a guy down a tier for injuries short of something undeniably a problem. Myers’ issues could influence his ranking within my top tier of 2, but could not drop him to 3, etc.

I have this a tier of JOB, Rubtsov, and Allison. These are the guys I’ve seen spurts from that give me higher hope than the rest, but all still have serious issues that need to be improved/corrected for an ideal Middle 6er. Of course I’m most fluid on JOB because I couldn’t tell you what translates well from NE High School tape, but any ordering here I wouldn’t object to at all. I easily could have gone JOB, but then that’s just another vote with no discussion to be had.

Depending on the day you ask me, I might tack Ratcliffe onto the tail end or have him down one with Laczynski/Vorobyev, or even in the middle on his own. That’s a turnaround for me on Ratcliffe too, but I see terms like top-line upside thrown around and I’ve just never seen that player. If everything goes quite well, that’s a quality Middle 6 Wing. If I have a Wing and a Center pretty close, I’m more often than not going with the latter. It gets tricky in situations like Rubtsov and JOB of course, but etc.
 

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