Prospect Info: 2018-19 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, #19

Who is the Flyers #19 SKATER prospect?

  • Fazleev, Radel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Goulbourne, Tyrell

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martel, Danick

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • St. Ivany, Jack

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vasiliev, Valeri

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Warren, Brendan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Westfalt, Marcus

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Willcox, Reece

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wylie, Wyatte

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
55,501
42,239
Every poll is set to close 4 days after being created. If a clear winner emerges, I will start the next poll earlier than that.

1. Frost, Morgan - 84%
2. Myers, Phil - 80%
3. Farabee, Joel - 84%
4. O'Brien, Jay - 42%
5. Allison, Wade - 41%
6. Ratcliffe, Isaac - 61%
7. Morin, Sam - 39%
8. Rubtsov, German - 47%
9. Vorobyev, Mikhail - 85%
10. Laczynski, Tanner - 50%
11. Aube-Kubel, Nicolas - 67%
12. Kase, David - 26%
13. Linus Hogberg - 32%
14. Friedman, Mark - 22%
15. Strome, Matthew - 30%
16. Lycksell, Olle - 36%
17. Ginning, Adam - 25%
18. Cates, Noah - 46%
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
I went Twarynski over Sushko only because I don't think he'll get a lot of votes and deserves more attention, otherwise I see them equal with Cates, all are solid 4th line candidates.

I think the depth at the bottom of the roster (not just surplus top 6 players) is something Hextall has focused on building, I've never thought he was happy having to fill out the roster with players like VdV, Luby, Cousins, PEB, Lehtera, Weise, etc. Just the price you pay in a rebuild when you hoard draft picks. Now those draft picks are building a stockpile of solid role players who have the potential to contribute at both ends of the ice. Say a 4th line in 2019-20 of Laughton/Rubtsov - Vorobyev - NAK/Bardreau with Twarynski, Laczynski, Sushko, Laberge, Ratcliffe, etc. in the AHL an Uber ride from south Philly.

One hidden benefit will be some really deep AHL teams in the future, this both provides a better environment for top prospects to marinate (especially if they go deep into the AHL playoffs each year), and the kind of seasoned depth that allows you to withstand a plague of minor injuries (no team is going to survive losing multiple top 6/top 4 players indefinitely).
 

tymed

Registered User
Jun 11, 2007
2,933
817
British Columbia
Have Sushko/Twarynski/Cates/Bunnaman in the same sort of tier like most.

Tough to come up with an order but I put Sushko at the head of this class primarily due to being the best skater of the bunch.
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
Captain is gonna go ape **** if we don't vote bunny in the top 20 lmao
There is someone who made the WJC in their draft+1 season AND played well there. And was a PPG in the OHL.

Meanwhile Bunny was worse statistically in his draft +2 season than his previous season.

He doesn't deserve top 20. He might be #23...
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
I went Twarynski over Sushko only because I don't think he'll get a lot of votes and deserves more attention, otherwise I see them equal with Cates, all are solid 4th line candidates.

Their puck skills and passing aren't close though; he's a more limited player. You'll probably see it eventually when you watch them, but Twarynski isn't really someone who can make plays with the puck like they can. He's not without strengths, but it's pretty much dump and chase, shoot, grind, skate some. He's also 2 years older in his development and was an overager playing with some really good linemates.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Their puck skills and passing aren't close though; he's a more limited player. You'll probably see it eventually when you watch them, but Twarynski isn't really someone who can make plays with the puck like they can. He's not without strengths, but it's pretty much dump and chase, shoot, grind, skate some. He's also 2 years older in his development and was an overager playing with some really good linemates.

He's also probably the most advanced in terms of fitting a 4th line role where he'll "dump and chase, shoot, grind, skate some."
People got up in arms when Ron said Sushko has to learn to do that, but it's just the reality of making the team as a 4th line winger, if you can do that AND you have better puck and passing skills, that's going to be an advantage, but you'd better master the basics.

I mean when you just look at the roster next year, other than a potential hole at 3RW, Twarnyski may be competing with Laughton and Rubtsov for 4LW, the year after, Bunnaman and Ratcliffe and Farabee. The most talented player won't win that job, but the one that is willing to bump and grind for 8 minutes a night, and sacrifice his body for 2 PK minutes a night. A more skilled, less down and dirty winger will stay in the AHL until he wins a top 9 job or is traded.

Ideally, you'd love your 4th line to have 3 skilled "bump and grind" guys, say Ratcliffe/Lindblom - Vorobyev - NAK/Sushko.
And basically be a change of pace with your 3rd lines, with minutes shifting night to night given matchups.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
Sushko over Kalynuk so far?

I hate you all.

I think Sushko is a good player who deserves to be here or higher. But I would say the same about Kalynuk, who I have a lot higher. The differentiator to me is this team will have forward prospects climbing over each other just to get usage scraps. And it might be bottom end usage. There are simply too many good ones. Even at the AHL level, as has been shown, some of these prospects will not get scoring minutes they would get elsewhere. Sushko (or Cates or Kase or Lycksell or NAK or Strome, etc.) has to be better than a lot of other equal or better talent.

Yet, for the defense, we have our future top 4 of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers (knock on wood). After them? There legitimately is room. Hagg might fill a spot now, and we hope Morin does in the near future, but then there's Hogberg and Kalynuk to me as next men up in the system (then Friedman, Ginning, St. Ivany, etc.). Kalynuk especially, given his NCAA situation and age and abilities, could get PP time in the AHL. None of those other defensemen really have that skill-set, which means he's rather unique among that group as an offensive puck mover. Now, in the NHL that might not mean much for this team (PP at least), but in terms of building value? Could pay dividends. I also just think he's an interesting player.
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,192
I think Sushko is a good player who deserves to be here or higher. But I would say the same about Kalynuk, who I have a lot higher. The differentiator to me is this team will have forward prospects climbing over each other just to get usage scraps. And it might be bottom end usage. There are simply too many good ones. Even at the AHL level, as has been shown, some of these prospects will not get scoring minutes they would get elsewhere. Sushko (or Cates or Kase or Lycksell or NAK or Strome, etc.) has to be better than a lot of other equal or better talent.

Yet, for the defense, we have our future top 4 of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers (knock on wood). After them? There legitimately is room. Hagg might fill a spot now, and we hope Morin does in the near future, but then there's Hogberg and Kalynuk to me as next men up in the system (then Friedman, Ginning, St. Ivany, etc.). Kalynuk especially, given his NCAA situation and age and abilities, could get PP time in the AHL. None of those other defensemen really have that skill-set, which means he's rather unique among that group as an offensive puck mover. Now, in the NHL that might not mean much for this team (PP at least), but in terms of building value? Could pay dividends. I also just think he's an interesting player.

The exact reason the next player left on my list, after Kalynuk, is actually Wyatte Wylie. I rate Wylie a slightly more valuable prospect than guys like Cates, Strome, and Sushko.

I'd often turn on Everrett games late night because of Hart. Most of the time I'd only be passively watching. But I've seen enough to have some confidence in Wylie, and being that he's a RHD it's an automatic boost in value. I liked the pick.

I even took Wylie in this forums fantasy draft where I picked for Detroit. He seemed like a solid, low maintenance defender who was improving. He easily could have been given a look by USA at the Summer Showcase, but I'm sure being a WHL kid from Washington state doesn't help him politically.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
I just don't see where Kalynuk has shown more than Friedman at the same age in college, and Friedman is more physical.
Kalynuk was a 19 year old in the USHL and a 20 year old college freshman, so beware of comparing him to 18 year olds like Hogberg or Ginning. And if what Appleyard says about Bernhardt today is accurate, he may be ahead of Kalynuk, give his play in the SHL at the same age. He was better in the superelite at 17-18 than Kalynuk in the USHL at 19.
 
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Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
The exact reason the next player left on my list, after Kalynuk, is actually Wyatte Wylie. I rate Wylie a slightly more valuable prospect than guys like Cates, Strome, and Sushko.

I'd often turn on Everrett games late night because of Hart. Most of the time I'd only be passively watching. But I've seen enough to have some confidence in Wylie, and being that he's a RHD it's an automatic boost in value. I liked the pick.

I even took Wylie in this forums fantasy draft where I picked for Detroit. He seemed like a solid, low maintenance defender who was improving. He easily could have been given a look by USA at the Summer Showcase, but I'm sure being a WHL kid from Washington state doesn't help him politically.

I guess I just have a clear separation between Kalynuk and Wylie. When I went back and watched Wylie, he definitely was low maintenance and fairly smart and a solid skater, but he was rather bland and safe with pucks. Those aren't bad attributes; I just think his potential is organizational depth as a #6 or something. Kalynuk has a lot more talent and impactful play where I think he can be more than just depth all things being equal. But I know I've never been that worried about handedness either, especially for a 3rd pair defender, which we differ on. Like I think Kalynuk has as much talent or more than some of those forwards where he gets that fit bump. I still think those are superior talent forwards to Wylie.

I just don't see where Kalynuk has shown more than Friedman at the same age in college, and Friedman is more physical.
Kalynuk was a 19 year old in the USHL and a 20 year old college freshman, so beware of comparing him to 18 year olds like Hogberg or Ginning. And if what Appleyard says about Bernhardt today is accurate, he may be ahead of Kalynuk, give his play in the SHL at the same age. He was better in the superelite at 17-18 than Kalynuk in the USHL at 19.

You kill me sometimes, man. First of all, Friedman was voted in a long time ago. I actually have Kalynuk above Friedman, but I reckon most don't.

Kalynuk is playing in college where age 20 is still really young. He's not an over-ager in juniors at age 20. I've been through this: his season at 20 was good for his age too, not just as a freshman on a curve. He finished as the leading defensive scorer on his team and 4th among all skaters. Among Big 10, NCHC, and Hockey East d-men, he was 14th in points; among only Big 10 d-men, he was 4th. Friedman played in a weak WCHA conference; Kalynuk played in a stacked Big 10. Kalynuk's numbers at age 20 were better than Friedman's as a junior (or age 20 sophomore). He has a more projectable, interesting offensive skill-set than Friedman. And if you think Kalynuk isn't physical or chippy, that's betraying you haven't watched him. We can put that one in the "Cates and Laczynski are undersized speedsters" pile.

He's a late bloomer. It happens, so deal with the present. Comparing his numbers to others at younger ages doesn't mean much when he keeps ascending and others stagnate or can't transition certain things as a pro. Guess what? Myers at age 17-18 had 8 f***ing points in 60 games. Why don't you compare his draft year numbers to Adam Ginning or Mark Friedman?
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,642
138,647
Philadelphia, PA
St. Ivany is probably the guy I’m most interested in tracking this year. A re-entry but a young one like Laczynski was as summer birthday. So he played this whole season as an 18 year old.

He was 4th in total points for defensemen & 5th in PPG (removing USNDTP guys &/or guys who played under 30 games) in the USHL.
 
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Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
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Huron of the Lakes
St. Ivany is probably the guy I’m most interested in tracking this year. A re-entry but a young one like Laczynski was as summer birthday. So he played this whole season as an 18 year old.

He was 4th in total points for defensemen & 5th in PPG (removing USNDTP guys &/or guys who played under 30 games) in the USHL.

Obviously, we would invalidate his stats because this was his age 18 season as a re-entry. But if we didn't!......I know a few of us wild and crazy guys might think he's the most interesting defenseman the Flyers just drafted. And he also happens to be righty. I kind of view him as the Strome of our defense though (albeit at least he has good edge work). His skating is subpar enough where it could be a fatal flaw. Subpar skating defensemen are tougher sells than forwards, but his puck skills and IQ and size all scream top 4 potential if he hits and improves his stride and quickness. Long-term potential is there.
 
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Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,192
I guess I just have a clear separation between Kalynuk and Wylie. When I went back and watched Wylie, he definitely was low maintenance and fairly smart and a solid skater, but he was rather bland and safe with pucks. Those aren't bad attributes; I just think his potential is organizational depth as a #6 or something. Kalynuk has a lot more talent and impactful play where I think he can be more than just depth all things being equal. But I know I've never been that worried about handedness either, especially for a 3rd pair defender, which we differ on. Like I think Kalynuk has as much talent or more than some of those forwards where he gets that fit bump. I still think those are superior talent forwards to Wylie.

Oh, I think there is clear seperation as well. Kalynuk is 10th on my list. Wylie is 16th. It just happens that Wylie is the player next left available on the consensus board. I certainly agree that Kalynuk has more talent and impactful play.
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,655
1,581
Carinthia, AUT
Voted Sushko because he has made steady progress and I trust the org and their evaluation of talent and they signed him to an ELC already for a reason.

Kalynuk, Bernhardt, St.Ivany and Wylie are all prospects with legit NHL upside which is amazing for where they were drafted and the Flyers need depth to fill out the third pairing with cheap talent. Unfortuantly, I can't possible tell who is closest to reaching his ceiling, not even if my life was depending on it.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,375
122,675
I think Sushko is a good player who deserves to be here or higher. But I would say the same about Kalynuk, who I have a lot higher. The differentiator to me is this team will have forward prospects climbing over each other just to get usage scraps. And it might be bottom end usage. There are simply too many good ones. Even at the AHL level, as has been shown, some of these prospects will not get scoring minutes they would get elsewhere. Sushko (or Cates or Kase or Lycksell or NAK or Strome, etc.) has to be better than a lot of other equal or better talent.

Yet, for the defense, we have our future top 4 of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers (knock on wood). After them? There legitimately is room. Hagg might fill a spot now, and we hope Morin does in the near future, but then there's Hogberg and Kalynuk to me as next men up in the system (then Friedman, Ginning, St. Ivany, etc.). Kalynuk especially, given his NCAA situation and age and abilities, could get PP time in the AHL. None of those other defensemen really have that skill-set, which means he's rather unique among that group as an offensive puck mover. Now, in the NHL that might not mean much for this team (PP at least), but in terms of building value? Could pay dividends. I also just think he's an interesting player.

This was my line of thinking too. Kalynuk has a clearer path to being a Flyer and a more unique skill set.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,418
10,397
His skating is subpar enough where it could be a fatal flaw.

I haven't watched St.Provorov. How would you describe his skating? I know you think it is below average. I'm talking what do you not like about it. Is his stride choppy? Does he lack quick feet? Poor Edgework? All of the above?
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
This was my line of thinking too. Kalynuk has a clearer path to being a Flyer and a more unique skill set.
In my voting, I am not thinking only Flyers though. I believe some of the guys already voted will be traded away but it doesn't change how good they are.

Voting in a WJC player in his draft +1 season, a top 10 scorer in that WJC, a PPG OHLer, a WC player....above an overage Dman who does have an easier path to the Flyers, is not some crazy abomination. Especially when we are voting on our 19th prospect.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
You kill me sometimes, man. First of all, Friedman was voted in a long time ago. I actually have Kalynuk above Friedman, but I reckon most don't.

Kalynuk is playing in college where age 20 is still really young. He's not an over-ager in juniors at age 20. I've been through this: his season at 20 was good for his age too, not just as a freshman on a curve. He finished as the leading defensive scorer on his team and 4th among all skaters. Among Big 10, NCHC, and Hockey East d-men, he was 14th in points; among only Big 10 d-men, he was 4th. Friedman played in a weak WCHA conference; Kalynuk played in a stacked Big 10. Kalynuk's numbers at age 20 were better than Friedman's as a junior (or age 20 sophomore). He has a more projectable, interesting offensive skill-set than Friedman. And if you think Kalynuk isn't physical or chippy, that's betraying you haven't watched him. We can put that one in the "Cates and Laczynski are undersized speedsters" pile.

He's a late bloomer. It happens, so deal with the present. Comparing his numbers to others at younger ages doesn't mean much when he keeps ascending and others stagnate or can't transition certain things as a pro. Guess what? Myers at age 17-18 had 8 ****ing points in 60 games. Why don't you compare his draft year numbers to Adam Ginning or Mark Friedman?

I think you're overrating Kalynuk because like a lot of people here, you overrate offensive skills in defense.
Kalynuk's USHL stats at 19 aren't very impressive, which makes a one year jump in college at 20 more suspect.
60g 6-25 31 +3
Friedman was more impressive in his last USHL season. 51g 10-30 40 +22 at 18 years old.
Friedman pretty much flatlined after a solid freshman year, so let's see what Kalynuk does.
Kalynuk freshman season: 37g 3-22 25 -11 v Friedman's sophomore year: 42g 6-17 23 +8
The difference in +/- could be a fluke, or a reflection of different roles, Kalynuk scoring more b/c he was being more aggressive.
Or because most of Kalynuk's scoring is assists, generous scorers, what were his P1 numbers?

Ginning is not going to put up big numbers, but at 18 he was starting 28 SHL and 7 SHL PO games, a level well above the NCAA.

If Kalynuk builds on his freshman year, I'll take him more seriously. But right now I see him more as a flash in the pan.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
52,627
85,324
It’s not crazy but you can’t put too much stock into the WJC. He played for Belarus. He was playing 25 minutes a game which is absurd usage for a forward. And he got a bunch of points in the relegation round. I have Sushko in this tier of players, but I think his potential is a high end 4th liner (I’ve thought this since before the infamous Hextall comments).
I haven't watched St.Provorov. How would you describe his skating? I know you think it is below average. I'm talking what do you not like about it. Is his stride choppy? Does he lack quick feet? Poor Edgework? All of the above?
Magua can chime in, but from what I saw he’s a big, well balanced skater, with good edgework as was mentioned. He’s just not quick twitch or particularly fast. The hope is that this is a kid that had a late growth spurt and maybe he’s doing some catch up in terms of his physical development.
 

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