WC: 2017 Team Russia

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

So i ask is there a sort of arrogance among the russian players? Do you really have to tell professional players how to play beeing up 2-0 before the 3 periode?

1) No. 2) Yes.
Simple as that.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Malkin recently said in an interview about Team Russia's performance that Znarok should travel to NA and see how they play. Will Znarok actually do that? Does he do such things at all?

 

[Caser]

Malkin recently said in an interview about Team Russia's performance that Znarok should travel to NA and see how they play. Will Znarok actually do that? Does he do such things at all?

He used to do that when he wasn't employed at SKA, but back then the "fans" on Russian sport websites were screaming that it was a waste of taxpayers money.

 

[Yakushev72]

He used to do that when he wasn't employed at SKA, but back then the "fans" on Russian sport websites were screaming that it was a waste of taxpayers money.

I'm not sure how much he would learn going to North America. Tarasov believed that he should create his own system instead of trying to interpret something from somewhere else. In the end, its just hockey. They need to formulate ways to keep the puck out of the defensive zone, and then better clear it once it is in.

It appeared that there was some improvement with more aggressive forechecking and trapping in the neutral zone this year, especially when killing penalties. They could consider standing up and meeting the attack at the blue line, as North American teams do. That forces the opposition to dump the puck in, instead of bringing it in without opposition and setting up an attack, and with the help of the goaltender, makes it easier to clear it out quicker. Znarok and his colleagues have to think and start creating solutions, or they will justifiably be replaced.

 

[Nino33]

Tarasov believed that he should create his own system instead of trying to interpret something from somewhere else.

Have you never heard of Lloyd Percival and his 1951 book The Hockey Handbook? Tarasov certainly had http://www.1972summitseries.com/tarasovsbible.html

 

[Nino33]

So i ask is there a sort of arrogance among the russian players? Do you really have to tell professional players how to play beeing up 2-0 before the 3 periode?

1) No. 2) Yes.
Simple as that.

Sorry Alessandro! HaHa but I think it's the opposite



Regarding #1
I think there is an arrogance among Russia regarding hockey fans, and as a result I think the players don't have the same desire/need to win that a NA would feel (especially a Canadian); there's so many "excuses" that are given for not winning (or blaming others, like coaches, but not the players), and praise given to Russian players and Russian ways

Ken Dryden said in game 8 in 1972, with Russia winning, he thought to himself "tomorrow I'm going to be the most hated person in Canada"

I don't see Russian players feeling bad about losing the way I'd expect (and they're so praised/glorified by Russian fans they understandably don't seem to focus on the results much)



Regarding #2
No, you should not have to "tell professional players how to play"
Of course coaching matters, and teams need to decide which of the different options/variants they're going to choose, but as professionals that doesn't take long (and the players, at this point, should know how to play...what we're talking about is basic play that players learn as young teenagers)

Again many Russian fans seem to make excuses for the loss, as if it's not the player's fault for blowing a 2-0 lead in the last ten minutes of a game

The celebrating of silver/bronze wins seems so odd to an old timer like me (the Russia I grew up with would never have celebrated not winning)




IMO Russia would have better results if players were held to a higher accountability by their fans, instead of so many excuses being made for them

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Sorry Alessandro! HaHa but I think it's the opposite



Regarding #1
I think there is an arrogance among Russia regarding hockey fans, and as a result I think the players don't have the same desire/need to win that a NA would feel (especially a Canadian); there's so many "excuses" that are given for not winning (or blaming others, like coaches, but not the players), and praise given to Russian players and Russian ways

Ken Dryden said in game 8 in 1972, with Russia winning, he thought to himself "tomorrow I'm going to be the most hated person in Canada"

I don't see Russian players feeling bad about losing the way I'd expect (and they're so praised/glorified by Russian fans they understandably don't seem to focus on the results much)



Regarding #2
No, you should not have to "tell professional players how to play"
Of course coaching matters, and teams need to decide which of the different options/variants they're going to choose, but as professionals that doesn't take long (and the players, at this point, should know how to play...what we're talking about is basic play that players learn as young teenagers)

Again many Russian fans seem to make excuses for the loss, as if it's not the player's fault for blowing a 2-0 lead in the last ten minutes of a game

The celebrating of silver/bronze wins seems so odd to an old timer like me (the Russia I grew up with would never have celebrated not winning)




IMO Russia would have better results if players were held to a higher accountability by their fans, instead of so many excuses being made for them

How do you conclude that Russian players 'don't care' about the fans? If you listen to any interviews, you'd understand that it's the opposite. And have you ever seen how 'content' Russian fans are if the team blows a 2-0 lead like they did vs. Canada? Just look at the discussion here on the HF boards, one can't be content and Russian fans aren't. We understand that our team was trying as hard as they could, so we don't start hating on them, but we're definitely not going to be content with everything. Just like any other fan base. [MOD]

 

[Nino33]

How do you conclude that Russian players 'don't care' about the fans? If you listen to any interviews, you'd understand that it's the opposite.

I didn't comment in any way about what Russian players thought of their fans, or imply in any way that Russian players don't care about their fans, and the fact you thought this is bizarre - I was talking about the fans [MOD], not the players

[MOD]


I'm suggesting that (IMO) Russia would likely achieve better results if their fan base wasn't so quick to defend them against criticism [MOD]

 

[MaxV]

Seriously? Just about every Russian poster here is extremely critical of Russian "stars" performances in international play.

 

[Nino33]

Seriously? Just about every Russian poster here is extremely critical of Russian "stars" performances in international play.

Yes, that's seriously my opinion! HaHa

The other two threads (along with this one) currently at the top in this Forum are one questioning the coach (I've seen Russian supporters blame the coaching too) & the other praising Russia for 2nd/3rd place finishes (which always strikes me as odd, as does the excitement/happiness I've noticed after Bronze medal victories...the Russians I grew up watching in the 70s/80s weren't ever happy with a Bronze)

[MOD]

 

[jimstark]

Sorry Alessandro! HaHa but I think it's the opposite



Regarding #1
I think there is an arrogance among Russia regarding hockey fans, and as a result I think the players don't have the same desire/need to win that a NA would feel (especially a Canadian); there's so many "excuses" that are given for not winning (or blaming others, like coaches, but not the players), and praise given to Russian players and Russian ways

Ken Dryden said in game 8 in 1972, with Russia winning, he thought to himself "tomorrow I'm going to be the most hated person in Canada"

I don't see Russian players feeling bad about losing the way I'd expect (and they're so praised/glorified by Russian fans they understandably don't seem to focus on the results much)



Regarding #2
No, you should not have to "tell professional players how to play"
Of course coaching matters, and teams need to decide which of the different options/variants they're going to choose, but as professionals that doesn't take long (and the players, at this point, should know how to play...what we're talking about is basic play that players learn as young teenagers)

Again many Russian fans seem to make excuses for the loss, as if it's not the player's fault for blowing a 2-0 lead in the last ten minutes of a game

The celebrating of silver/bronze wins seems so odd to an old timer like me (the Russia I grew up with would never have celebrated not winning)




IMO Russia would have better results if players were held to a higher accountability by their fans, instead of so many excuses being made for them

Well since my 2 questions are beeing discussed here i just like to point out that what i meant was is there and arrogance among Russian players (NOT the fans ) why do his kind of talent collapse at times at it does ?
How do you enter the 3 periode up to that moment beeing playing a perfect game finially showing a good deffence and as pointed out by Yakushev72 playing with more aggresive forechecking and trapping the neutral zone. Heck we even killed penalties in a way i had not seen for some time. And then take 3 stupid penalties and it all falls down in what 10 min...its sad and i just wanted a discusion about this because we have seen it before.

But like i have been saying in my posts earlier i saw that Russia is adjusting doing the right things to bring us on top again and for me i like many of our new players call it and after Ovi era players. I feel good about that.

Now to reply to you Nino33 and your sentence : The celebrating of silver/bronze wins seems so odd to an old timer like me (the Russia I grew up with would never have celebrated not winning) i can say that i understand you because i grow up with CCCP started to follow them in 1984 when i was 11 years old and we won it all ( I am from Norway but mye hockey heart is russian and have been like this since i was 11 years old now turning 46 but i still get the same feeling when i see Russia play ) So i understand you and the feeling but maybe we old timers does see this different than younger fans does that have grown up with another Russia where gold not have beeing taken every year and. Having said that i dont think Russian fans are satisfied at all but from en sensetive point of wiew i get you.
Remember Ovi was asked about a loss and replied " it is what it is " and i have just so mixed feelings about this and ofcourse thinking you dont care and that Tichhonov would NEVER accepted this and so on...we comes from another time

But i truly belive its all going the right way and i love that the players said we did not loose to Canada we lost to ourselfe. You have that talent you just have to put it all together and we saw that Znarok had made adjustment

I am staying posive tough i dont think lets called it after the russian turn around from 2007 yet have seen the best Coach to get the best out of them

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Seriously? Just about every Russian poster here is extremely critical of Russian "stars" performances in international play.

I don't what he's talking about either. I think most of the Russian fans are highly critical of the team's performance - we like our boys but we feel our team could've gotten Gold and that adjustments to our game are certainly needed.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Well since my 2 questions are beeing discussed here i just like to point out that what i meant was is there and arrogance among Russian players (NOT the fans ) why do his kind of talent collapse at times at it does ?
How do you enter the 3 periode up to that moment beeing playing a perfect game finially showing a good deffence and as pointed out by Yakushev72 playing with more aggresive forechecking and trapping the neutral zone. Heck we even killed penalties in a way i had not seen for some time. And then take 3 stupid penalties and it all falls down in what 10 min...its sad and i just wanted a discusion about this because we have seen it before.

But like i have been saying in my posts earlier i saw that Russia is adjusting doing the right things to bring us on top again and for me i like many of our new players call it and after Ovi era players. I feel good about that.

Now to reply to you Nino33 and your sentence : The celebrating of silver/bronze wins seems so odd to an old timer like me (the Russia I grew up with would never have celebrated not winning) i can say that i understand you because i grow up with CCCP started to follow them in 1984 when i was 11 years old and we won it all ( I am from Norway but mye hockey heart is russian and have been like this since i was 11 years old now turning 46 but i still get the same feeling when i see Russia play ) So i understand you and the feeling but maybe we old timers does see this different than younger fans does that have grown up with another Russia where gold not have beeing taken every year and. Having said that i dont think Russian fans are satisfied at all but from en sensetive point of wiew i get you.
Remember Ovi was asked about a loss and replied " it is what it is " and i have just so mixed feelings about this and ofcourse thinking you dont care and that Tichhonov would NEVER accepted this and so on...we comes from another time

But i truly belive its all going the right way and i love that the players said we did not loose to Canada we lost to ourselfe. You have that talent you just have to put it all together and we saw that Znarok had made adjustment

I am staying posive tough i dont think lets called it after the russian turn around from 2007 yet have seen the best Coach to get the best out of them

Hehe, so you're Norwegian but you're a fan of Team Russia? Interesting . I guess you're a fan of 2 teams then, good for you .

 

[Atas2000]

We just can't beat Canada, even friggin Switzerland can beat them, but we can't. Germany played 2-1 against them. It's just ridiculous. And who should replace Znarok? Maybe Bykov, since he has experience in beating Canada. Why was Bykov removed in the first place?

Oh, you mean his 3-7 loss at the Olympics? Bykov is done and was never good to begin with.

 

[MaxV]

OK, back to discussion about hockey.

What did you guys think of performances by Barabanov, Zub and Gavrikov?

 

[Yakushev72]

OK, back to discussion about hockey.

What did you guys think of performances by Barabanov, Zub and Gavrikov?

I was very impressed by all 3. More than anything, the performance of the young unheralded KHL players was the most encouraging and exciting thing about the tournament. Barabanov is a very talented stickhandler and playmaker, and Zub and Gavrikov suggest that there might actually be some good D man prospects there after all. I was also impressed with Andronov, Gusev, Telegin, and I even liked Tkachyov, who is really nifty with the puck (some guys obviously weren't impressed with him). I really loved the way the team moved the puck and created great scoring chances. They just have to find a way to fix the 3rd period meltdowns.

 

[Fantomas]

Oh, you mean his 3-7 loss at the Olympics? Bykov is done and was never good to begin with.

Thank you.

 

[jimstark]

I was very impressed by all 3. More than anything, the performance of the young unheralded KHL players was the most encouraging and exciting thing about the tournament. Barabanov is a very talented stickhandler and playmaker, and Zub and Gavrikov suggest that there might actually be some good D man prospects there after all. I was also impressed with Andronov, Gusev, Telegin, and I even liked Tkachyov, who is really nifty with the puck (some guys obviously weren't impressed with him). I really loved the way the team moved the puck and created great scoring chances. They just have to find a way to fix the 3rd period meltdowns.

I agree. I liked Gavrikov a lot. Really really good.

 

[jimstark]

Thank you.

Bykov was and amazing player , not so good Coach but i dont get why people are talking about him now..he will not come back as a Coach and neither should he

Talk about Bykov - talked about the they player Bykov

 

[jimstark]

Hehe, so you're Norwegian but you're a fan of Team Russia? Interesting . I guess you're a fan of 2 teams then, good for you .

Well if Russia and Norway meets i allways root for Russia. Sounds maybe strange but i was so deeply effectec as and 11 year boy when i first saw them and it will allway be that way. Of course Norway playing against other team i root for them

My father said later i liked their deep red CCCP jersey and i guess it started there but i soon become sort of and expert allway writing down who scored and had assist (remember this was before internett og mobil Phones) and was pretty mad according my mother When they lost in 1985 WC i did not go to school for 3 days and when i did i hade a black armlet showing my suffering to everyone...
I was a litle boy but i soon understood that what i saw on tv once in a year was something special.

Of course getting older knowing more how Soviet controlled their players made you look at everything a litle different but it was for sure a thing of beauty that i am afraid we will never see again at that level.

Since i have nothing to do right now other that listening to my wife screaming about somthing i dont understand (to all young guys here never get married ) i like to share a story from 1987

I dont remember the name but there was a Euro cup where CSKA played in a group with one norwegin clup, one danish and the last one i dont remember
All 3 games where to the played in Norway and i ocurse went to see all of them
As you guys know CSKA at that time was CCCP ...i was in transe sitting so close to the rink that i could hear Makarov screaming to Kasatonov after a bad pass.

Well after the 3 game on sunday i went outside waiting for the players and managed to get the whole KLM line sign a photo of all 5 of them. We were told they were poor and did not get anyting from playing hockey so i had a casette (looong time before cd) with Michal Jacksons Bad album i think i was. I asked Larinov if i could get his stick in change for the casette and he (he spoke a litle bit English) asked if i had Pet Shop Boys hehe which i did not so i he said no but you could feel he was a very likeable person.

Then i went into their bus ( i was 16 at that time) and that moment i will never forget
Most of the players where there and angry stone faced looked at me thinking what the hell is he doing there. I turn to my right and there was Makarov. I guess he rememebered me from earlier when he signed the photo and smiled and said something which i understood meant you have to get out. I turned around and there is Tichonov...that look he gave me shall i never forget. I went out fast as i could.

When i was leaving i saw the bus was still standing there and as i went for a stairway taking me up to the where the subway was i saw 3 guys standing for them selfe talking. It was Bykov, Khomotov and Kamensky (the whole line keeping together also outside the rink) I decided to just give the cassete to them but Bykov and Khomotov said polite no but Kamensky said yes and in return he gave me a pin (the one you put in you shirt or caps) with they logo and name for Sparta Praha ( i guess he had gotten it when thay played against them)

As i was leaving standing on the top of the stairway i shouted " Hey Bykov " and all of them turn and smiled and wawed to me

I did not sleep for the next 6 months ( to this day i still have the pin but i sadly lost the poster where the KLM signed stupid me)

 

[Fantomas]

That's a great story, man. Wonderful memory too.

80s Pet Shop Boys were the best.

 

[Fantomas]

Bykov was and amazing player , not so good Coach but i dont get why people are talking about him now..he will not come back as a Coach and neither should he

Talk about Bykov - talked about the they player Bykov

Good man, good player, but people fantasizing about him coaching the NT again are out to lunch. And the reasons they give are hilarious - something to do with him being an 'intellectual'.

 

[Caser]

Good man, good player, but people fantasizing about him coaching the NT again are out to lunch. And the reasons they give are hilarious - something to do with him being an 'intellectual'.

Well, using the word 'intellectual' for reasoning is still better than using the word 'pondus'.

 

[Atas2000]

OK, back to discussion about hockey.

What did you guys think of performances by Barabanov, Zub and Gavrikov?

People's evaluations here are just amazing

Zub was brutal. Worst d-man on the team defensively and no offence at all. Most obvious Znarok pick of a guy from his team over a half dozen better players available. Nearly every single important goal against was partually Zub's fault. I don't blame him. That's just his level.

Barabanov was nearly as useless and was again a SKA player taking away a spot from better players. His problem is and remains size. The game he plays requires size. He was being bounced around basically.

Gavrikov is the only one of the 3 who deserved his spot on the team. But again, there wasn't much offence in him.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Well if Russia and Norway meets i allways root for Russia. Sounds maybe strange but i was so deeply effectec as and 11 year boy when i first saw them and it will allway be that way. Of course Norway playing against other team i root for them

My father said later i liked their deep red CCCP jersey and i guess it started there but i soon become sort of and expert allway writing down who scored and had assist (remember this was before internett og mobil Phones) and was pretty mad according my mother When they lost in 1985 WC i did not go to school for 3 days and when i did i hade a black armlet showing my suffering to everyone...
I was a litle boy but i soon understood that what i saw on tv once in a year was something special.

Of course getting older knowing more how Soviet controlled their players made you look at everything a litle different but it was for sure a thing of beauty that i am afraid we will never see again at that level.

Since i have nothing to do right now other that listening to my wife screaming about somthing i dont understand (to all young guys here never get married ) i like to share a story from 1987

I dont remember the name but there was a Euro cup where CSKA played in a group with one norwegin clup, one danish and the last one i dont remember
All 3 games where to the played in Norway and i ocurse went to see all of them
As you guys know CSKA at that time was CCCP ...i was in transe sitting so close to the rink that i could hear Makarov screaming to Kasatonov after a bad pass.

Well after the 3 game on sunday i went outside waiting for the players and managed to get the whole KLM line sign a photo of all 5 of them. We were told they were poor and did not get anyting from playing hockey so i had a casette (looong time before cd) with Michal Jacksons Bad album i think i was. I asked Larinov if i could get his stick in change for the casette and he (he spoke a litle bit English) asked if i had Pet Shop Boys hehe which i did not so i he said no but you could feel he was a very likeable person.

Then i went into their bus ( i was 16 at that time) and that moment i will never forget
Most of the players where there and angry stone faced looked at me thinking what the hell is he doing there. I turn to my right and there was Makarov. I guess he rememebered me from earlier when he signed the photo and smiled and said something which i understood meant you have to get out. I turned around and there is Tichonov...that look he gave me shall i never forget. I went out fast as i could.

When i was leaving i saw the bus was still standing there and as i went for a stairway taking me up to the where the subway was i saw 3 guys standing for them selfe talking. It was Bykov, Khomotov and Kamensky (the whole line keeping together also outside the rink) I decided to just give the cassete to them but Bykov and Khomotov said polite no but Kamensky said yes and in return he gave me a pin (the one you put in you shirt or caps) with they logo and name for Sparta Praha ( i guess he had gotten it when thay played against them)

As i was leaving standing on the top of the stairway i shouted " Hey Bykov " and all of them turn and smiled and wawed to me

I did not sleep for the next 6 months ( to this day i still have the pin but i sadly lost the poster where the KLM signed stupid me)