Transfer: 2017 Summer Transfer Rumors XI: The End

[Shrimper]

Barca throwing their toys of the ground in hypocritical fashion is hilarious.

I wasn't commenting on the ethics but rather the business approach.

Also, to the best of my knowledge Barça are no longer getting money from Qatar Airways.

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2017/03/02/barca-qatar-airways-prepare-land-new-e50m-sponsorship/

Looks like they might be

 

[Vipers31]

I'm no PSG fan, but it's quite obvous to see the truth. You prefer to look the other way, perfectly fine, you're a Bayern fan. That's what they do, just like with Hoeness.

You are really crap at debating, I hope you know that. You decide to believe in some truth, which consists of one side's account with no critical thought whatsoever - meanwhile, that "other way" that I'm looking is it actually being looked into. That's what your problem is with here. I'm not saying "throw the book at them!", "kick them out", whatever - I'm saying, "yeah, let's probably not just listen to them and actually look into it". That isn't a controversial stance to take.

And please, lecture me a about what "Bayern does, just like with Hoeneß". I'm not sure you know what you're talking about on that front. I already said he's proven himself personally a hypocrite over some of the things he's said before doing what he did. Not sure what else you're attempting to get at.

Mind, you, the FFP is about being OK over 5 years. So yeah, it's so obvious there's absolutely no problem it's laughable.

If that was true - and I doubt that really reflects all mechanisms within FFP, as there are a few seperate ones - what's the problem? You're not a PSG fan, so why does it annoy you that they're even being looked at? Your outrage is so unnecessary and misplaced.

I could link you to dozens of articles that go in depth about PSG's financial situation about FFP, but unfortunately, they're in french. If you master french, let me know, I'll gladly do.

Cool. If those articles have valuable info, there's probably a few people out there that will spread them. If they are just further quotes from PSG's own officials, well, there's limited value in that, and I can see why people didn't bother spreading it.

Sustainable business models
Real was built thanks to public money.

And I have always been in favour of that being properly investigated, particularly through the European Commission. I'm being entirely consistent with my stance.

Barca made loans with ridiculous rates (that common people would never get).

Just about all large businesses get loans at numbers that "common people" never get - that's a cheap take, and doesn't disprove sustainability whatsoever.

United gets a fat Chevrolet sponsorship that is all but fake.

What's fake about it? Do you doubt their jersey sales or worldwide TV exposure? They are in a different sphere from PSG particularly in the latter regard; the money should reflect that.

Your whataboutist-attempts to artificially drag a some of the other giants down just because you have an issue with PSG's numbers being looked into without them requesting it aren't doing your argument any favours.

 

[Evilo]

So you're perfectly fine with being a fan of Bayern even though Hoeness.
Shows what a club Bayern are IMO.
Hypocrisy is hardly limited to Hoeness here.

I'm crap at debating? Well that's because there's nothing to debate here. You have no proof of PSG doing anything wrong, I have none of them doing nothing wrong. See, that's how it works.
Again, if you feel like studying the case, papers have been written about PSG not being even close to outside the FFP rules.

You STILL haven't understood why I'm outraged PSG is looked at for FFP? Wow, you're damn slow for someone telling others they're "crap at debating". I've told you about the old boys club and Tebas, the neo-fascist behind all of this.

Doesn't disprove sustainability? Pardon me? Well then Qatar money neither.

What I'm showing you (but again, you look the other way) is that PSG being looked into is ABSOLUTE hypocrisy (again, Bayern, blah, blah, blah), since it's coming from the spanish federation and the old boys club, who are CERTAINLY no stranger to shady unethical stuff. At least PSG (and City) are being transparent about the way they're condcting business.
When a team like Juve buys ref for a dozen years and get a mere slap on the wrist for one year and now act ouraged, when the main spokesman against PSG spending money is Hoeness, the poster boy for cheating with money, when the sore loser Tebas, a neo-fascit believer, is the one suing attacks to UEFA about PSG and City, then let me LAUGH.

And if you can't understand the hypocrisy, I can't help. You simply must be too slow. Or too much of a Bayern fan.

 

[S E P H]

Cripple is an interesting word to use, especially with Özil when a decent sized portion of the fan base think he's completely unreliable and lazy.

Now I don't fall into group, but I'm also not sure really what to do with him either in terms of how to set a team up pretty much built around him because I'm not sure it works given the CM's that are used.

But to touch on the reports of "warchests" and what whatever obscene amount of money we have for transfers in past - that never came from the club and all it did unnecessarily rile up Arsenal fans (even more so). I can't directly link it to a few of the big money transfers that have gone south over the last 12-18 months, but the theme of " spend some ****ing money" that so gracefully rang around the emirates a few times must have come from somewhere. Subsequent to that, they did spend on some big transfers and I'm not sure it was in the right positions or on the right players.

What I'd like to see Arsenal and Arsene do (for however long he remains) is get back to doing what he did best and that's finding/signing young players just before they take off. That requires a little more calculation and a lot more bravery than what's being displayed now because you may end up having to pay between 5-10 million for a kid who's not played much or any senior football (Dortmund as an example) - but when you contrast that with 50+ million between Perez and Mustafi not in the first team/out on loan it doesn't seem that bad at all really.

The best example of that kind of deal this summer is Pablo Fornals from Malaga to Vilarreal for 12 million. Now even as the biggest Wenger supporter not currently hiding in some kind of a bomb shelter, that's the kind of transfer that he/they need to be all over and even if the kid doesn't pan out, relatively it not that big of a hit.

You don't think a team which has the most expensive ticket prices in the world and gain the most match-day revenue could have bought a player for 20 million pounds the transfer summer where all we bought was just Cech? Even if all the "warchest" comments are fake by Gadizis and are propaganda **** by English media, Arsenal are wealthier than 95% of footballing world. But yet, Fleetwood Town has spent more than Arsenal this year in regards to debt with a stadium that has 5,000 spectators. Then picture that the club got 30 million for making the group stage every single year for at least 8 years in a row. 30 * 8 = 240 million, where we can subtract 90 million for the Ozil and Sanchez transfers leading for a net profit of...150 million. Not only that, but Arsenal, even after buying Lacazette will have a net profit of 15.7 million Euros. Lets even take more money off the 150 million CL money, lets say we take 80 million for the clubs costs to run it, which might be a complete over exaggeration of running costs, which still leaves us with 70 million pounds. At most, Arsenal used at least 20 million of that on miscellaneous players like Cech and Elneny, but enough to give us 50 million. 50 million where we could have activated Seri's buy-out clause and still have money left over to pay for his wages and still have money left over.

There's no vision with this club, they say for 99.9% of the summer that Alexis is not available for any amount. Then on the last day they randomly decide to sell him, but only if they get Lemar where they had the whole summer to negotiate a deal and try to persuade him. Of course he's going to decline a deal when there were only four or so hours left, making Arsenal run out of wiggling room to convince him.

Arsenal have never spent money over the likes of Chelsea, Man United, City, or even BVB for that matter (though have spent more on singular bigger players). So I am not expecting to go out and put down 120 million one summer even though the club really needs it an have the funds to do it. But it is completely unacceptable for a club that makes the revenue and have the ambitions as Arsenal do (Gidizis quotes: moving to Emirates will make us compete with Bayern Munich), to have a summer where all they spent was 13 million on Cech and another summer where we desperately need a CM and a CB, and came up once again with nothing. Johnny Evans and a 92 million Lemar when all you wanted to spend was 55 million during 99.9% of the summer, are both screaming like panic targets. Not only panic buys, but ones where there are absolute zero vision of where anyone wants to take this club.

I would really like to know your rebuttal here, because I don't think there is a defence for this argument. Not because it's coming from me, but because of how big the hole they've dug has gotten for Arsenal.

E: I will say though that I do 100% agree with your suggestion that Arsenal need to change their transfer philosophies, but I will go a step further and say that Arsenal need to go back to their "finding hidden gems for 15 or so million pounds" if they fail to secure another top 6 place. Sell players like Alexis, Ozil, Giroud, and older in their prime players, buy younger versions of them, and build around Lacazette before he will eventually want to move.

 

[bleedblue1223]

People are still whining over PSG?

 

[Vipers31]

So you're perfectly fine with being a fan of Bayern even though Hoeness.
Shows what a club Bayern are IMO.
Hypocrisy is hardly limited to Hoeness here.

Yeah, our society believes in re-socialization. You do the crime, you do the time, and after you did, you get to be treated as a full member of society again. I couldn't care less if your values are different; they probably wouldn't reflect too well on you. And sure, there's more hypocrisy - the people on the board are club officials; they aren't supposed to be objective in general, they're supposed to further the interests of the club. That's why when club officials say something as club officials, it makes sense to not take their words for it, because their job isn't necessarily to speak the most objective truth at all times.

Well that's because there's nothing to debate here. You have no proof of PSG doing anything wrong, I have none of them doing nothing wrong. See, that's how it works.

Yeah, that works perfectly for me, considering that all I'm debating is to not oppose an actual investigation.

I've told you about the old boys club and Tebas, the neo-fascist behind all of this.

So, it's footballing conspiracy stuff. Neat. And their master plan is to... conduct investigations. How evil of them. Because one of the big problems in football has been too many investigations. That's the problem.

Doesn't disprove sustainability? Pardon me? Well then Qatar money neither.

You can laugh at that, but it doesn't exactly make sense.

What I'm showing you (but again, you look the other way) is that PSG being looked into is ABSOLUTE hypocrisy (again, Bayern, blah, blah, blah), since it's coming from the spanish federation and the old boys club, who are CERTAINLY no stranger to shady unethical stuff. At least PSG (and City) are being transparent about the way they're condcting business.

Except that you're not "showing" anything. You make some blunt claims that range from unproven to irrelevant in the context. Yeah, there's many huge clubs that aren't strangers to unethical stuff. That's a beyond crappy reason to argue for shutting down another investigation. Whether PSG's transparency is actually truthful is something that will remain to be seen. If they come out clean out of any investigation, it's a badge they can hold up. There's no downside to this.

When a team like Juve buys ref for a dozen years and get a mere slap on the wrist for one year and now act ouraged, when the main spokesman against PSG spending money is Hoeness, the poster boy for cheating with money, when the sore loser Tebas, a neo-fascit believer, is the one suing attacks to UEFA about PSG and City, then let me LAUGH.

And if you can't understand the hypocrisy, I can't help. You simply must be too slow. Or too much of a Bayern fan.

You're just completely unwilling or unable to think abstractly. You can pat yourself on the back for ignorantly laughing at stuff you don't really grasp. Why do you even give a crap about Hoeneß - what do you think is his position in the club?

Whatever, I'm done with this - I can't believe the mental gymnastics you go through to advocate not investigating things.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Don't bother to argue with that fellow. The reality of it is that France itself isn't a great football nation. France's colonial empire gave them the players to compete, but it hasn't given them the support structure for the game you have in true football countries. For French clubs to compete internationally, the money needs to come out of a magic hat. Whether it was corrupt Tapie's Marseilles, the tax-free royal toy Monaco (playing European competition games in front of 2,000 people) or Qatar's prestige toy PSG. It's never money generated by the clubs in a sports-related fashion. But that's all there is to these 'top clubs', so of course someone who is obsessed with the grandeur of French football would have to fanatically defend such arrangements.

 

[gary69]

Don't bother to argue with that fellow. The reality of it is that France itself isn't a great football nation. France's colonial empire gave them the players to compete, but it hasn't given them the support structure for the game you have in true football countries. For French clubs to compete internationally, the money needs to come out of a magic hat. Whether it was corrupt Tapie's Marseilles, the tax-free royal toy Monaco (playing European competition games in front of 2,000 people) or Qatar's prestige toy PSG. It's never money generated by the clubs in a sports-related fashion. But that's all there is to these 'top clubs', so of course someone who is obsessed with the grandeur of French football would have to fanatically defend such arrangements.

To be fair, outside of Monaco, taxes and laws in France are much less favourable to clubs, players and owners than in other major European countries.

England would be a crappy league with only their domestic players and domestic TV market, especially with brexit coming.

 

[Evilo]

To be fair, outside of Monaco, taxes and laws in France are much less favourable to clubs, players and owners than in other major European countries.

England would be a crappy league with only their domestic players and domestic TV market, especially with brexit coming.

Don't bother, jealousy, that's it.
France produces more talent than anyone in Europe, and have done so for the last 20 years.

The main reason french clubs don't compete much internationally is indeed because we have financial limits, contrary to some countries where sporting events rule over financial rules.

But again, hypocrisy.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah, our society believes in re-socialization. You do the crime, you do the time, and after you did, you get to be treated as a full member of society again. I couldn't care less if your values are different; they probably wouldn't reflect too well on you. And sure, there's more hypocrisy - the people on the board are club officials; they aren't supposed to be objective in general, they're supposed to further the interests of the club. That's why when club officials say something as club officials, it makes sense to not take their words for it, because their job isn't necessarily to speak the most objective truth at all times.


Yeah, that works perfectly for me, considering that all I'm debating is to not oppose an actual investigation.


So, it's footballing conspiracy stuff. Neat. And their master plan is to... conduct investigations. How evil of them. Because one of the big problems in football has been too many investigations. That's the problem.


You can laugh at that, but it doesn't exactly make sense.


Except that you're not "showing" anything. You make some blunt claims that range from unproven to irrelevant in the context. Yeah, there's many huge clubs that aren't strangers to unethical stuff. That's a beyond crappy reason to argue for shutting down another investigation. Whether PSG's transparency is actually truthful is something that will remain to be seen. If they come out clean out of any investigation, it's a badge they can hold up. There's no downside to this.


You're just completely unwilling or unable to think abstractly. You can pat yourself on the back for ignorantly laughing at stuff you don't really grasp. Why do you even give a crap about Hoeneß - what do you think is his position in the club?

Whatever, I'm done with this - I can't believe the mental gymnastics you go through to advocate not investigating things.

You can insult all you want, you're just playing the hypocrisy game here.
I told you in my first post or so that THE ANNOUNCEMENT of the investigation was a total hypocrisy, lead by the old boys club and the spanish federation's leader, the neo-fascist.
You choose that it's perfectly normal to announce it even though they could have investigated all they want.
If you can't see how it's a total circus, I can't help. Maybe you can't think as clear as you think you can. Because it's quite obvious.

But again, you're a fan of a club you think is "sustainable", and defend the position of teams like Juve, Barca or Real. Hypocrisy is a tame word in fact.

FFP are meant to protect big clubs (though I'm not sure it was designed that way at first) and denying it is lying. Only big clubs can invest huge money. Only them can win. Only them can buy from poorer teams. That's the economic model in today's football. City and PSG are exploding that model, and those clubs can't handle it.

 

[les Habs]

Barca throwing their toys of the ground in hypocritical fashion is hilarious.

Not sure what this is in reference to, but your posting history as regards Barça suggests it'll be nothing relevant.

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2017/03/02/barca-qatar-airways-prepare-land-new-e50m-sponsorship/

Looks like they might be

That's dated from March and isn't confirming a deal. I didn't spend a lot of time looking before, but from what I saw I didn't find anything.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Messi should go to Real on a free

imagine the rioting in barcelona

 

[Gecklund]

Messi should go to Real on a free

imagine the rioting in barcelona

He should go to United on a free. Because I want him to.

 

[Live in the Now]

He's not going to leave. He wants Barcelona's board to leave, and they will, and he'll sign the contract.

 

[Peen]

I think it would be neat to see Messi in a different league.

Messi on juve or some ****.

 

[S E P H]

Don't bother to argue with that fellow. The reality of it is that France itself isn't a great football nation. France's colonial empire gave them the players to compete, but it hasn't given them the support structure for the game you have in true football countries. For French clubs to compete internationally, the money needs to come out of a magic hat. Whether it was corrupt Tapie's Marseilles, the tax-free royal toy Monaco (playing European competition games in front of 2,000 people) or Qatar's prestige toy PSG. It's never money generated by the clubs in a sports-related fashion. But that's all there is to these 'top clubs', so of course someone who is obsessed with the grandeur of French football would have to fanatically defend such arrangements.

I respect Evilo's opinion a lot, but this is right. For a supposedly great and top football nation, they haven't won anything. Their World Cup win was in 1998 and if you discount their 2000 Euro win, their last won was in 1984. World Cup is hard to win for any nation, even the dynasty ones like Brasil, but their lack of Euro success is quite pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, England is in the same group of over-hype yet unsuccessful international nation.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I respect Evilo's opinion a lot, but this is right. For a supposedly great and top football nation, they haven't won anything. Their World Cup win was in 1998 and if you discount their 2000 Euro win, their last won was in 1984. World Cup is hard to win for any nation, even the dynasty ones like Brasil, but their lack of Euro success is quite pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, England is in the same group of over-hype yet unsuccessful international nation.

Why would you discount their Euro2000 win though? I see no compelling reason why you would do that. They should've won Euros last year and pretty much only have themselves to blame for not taking it at home. 20 years ago they won a World Cup and a Euro. But "if you take away their Euro2000 win, and their WC1998 win, and their Euro1984 win then they're pretty much England." Like, yeah, no **** that if you discount the things they've won then they haven't won anything.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I respect Evilo's opinion a lot, but this is right. For a supposedly great and top football nation, they haven't won anything. Their World Cup win was in 1998 and if you discount their 2000 Euro win, their last won was in 1984. World Cup is hard to win for any nation, even the dynasty ones like Brasil, but their lack of Euro success is quite pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, England is in the same group of over-hype yet unsuccessful international nation.

So, what was Spain before 08-12 run? Before Spain's run, France were the only multi winner along with Germany. Only 8 countries in the world have won the World Cup. Anyone knocking France as a football nation is just hating France.

 

[S E P H]

Why would you discount their Euro2000 win though? I see no compelling reason why you would do that. They should've won Euros last year and pretty much only have themselves to blame for not taking it at home. 20 years ago they won a World Cup and a Euro. But "if you take away their Euro2000 win, and their WC1998 win, and their Euro1984 win then they're pretty much England." Like, yeah, no **** that if you discount the things they've won then they haven't won anything.

I discounted it, just to show the length since their last one, of course it is a legitimate win in the end. Your post screams like Russia to a tee.

So, what was Spain before 08-12 run? Before Spain's run, France were the only multi winner along with Germany. Only 8 countries in the world have won the World Cup. Anyone knocking France as a football nation is just hating France.

You're either assuming or putting words in my mouth. France is a nation I quite like, I always cheer for them during international tournies in any sport, like their football players, and Ligue 1 is the second most watched league for me after EPL. They're a top football nation as well, but they do get overhyped in their success (Spain has passed them as you indicated). You can still be good and overrated, it's very much possible.

 

[Vipers31]

You can insult all you want, you're just playing the hypocrisy game here.
I told you in my first post or so that THE ANNOUNCEMENT of the investigation was a total hypocrisy, lead by the old boys club and the spanish federation's leader, the neo-fascist.
You choose that it's perfectly normal to announce it even though they could have investigated all they want.
If you can't see how it's a total circus, I can't help. Maybe you can't think as clear as you think you can. Because it's quite obvious.

But again, you're a fan of a club you think is "sustainable", and defend the position of teams like Juve, Barca or Real. Hypocrisy is a tame word in fact.

FFP are meant to protect big clubs (though I'm not sure it was designed that way at first) and denying it is lying. Only big clubs can invest huge money. Only them can win. Only them can buy from poorer teams. That's the economic model in today's football. City and PSG are exploding that model, and those clubs can't handle it.

Evilo, I respect you a fair bit for your ability to identify talent in young players, and that isn't going to change. But we're not going come to terms regarding the politics that surrounds it. Nothing is obvious, unless you have drank (too much of) PSG's cool aid.

You repeating that I'm somehow advocating Real is nothing but your own imagination - I'd love to see them buried, I just don't give up on my principles as easily. If Juve has another price to pay, I'm happy if they will. If Barca has to, please, go ahead. If you feel like Bayern has to, I'm looking forward to seeing any sort of evidence of that.

Please, to prove any of your points, tell me how Bayern isn't sustainable. That's going to be fascinating.

 

[Jussi]

United gets a fat Chevrolet sponsorship that is all but fake.

 

[Jussi]

I think it would be neat to see Messi in a different league.

Messi on juve or some ****.

Stoke so his can finally disprove the meme.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You're either assuming or putting words in my mouth. France is a nation I quite like, I always cheer for them during international tournies in any sport, like their football players, and Ligue 1 is the second most watched league for me after EPL. They're a top football nation as well, but they do get overhyped in their success (Spain has passed them as you indicated). You can still be good and overrated, it's very much possible.

No, you're the one that called them supposedly great, haven't won anything, pathetic lack of Euro success, and an over-hyped unsuccessful nation.

They are one of the most successful nations out there.

 

[Vipers31]

Don't bother, jealousy, that's it.

And because it needs being said - yeah, jealousy, that's it. A Bayern fan, jealous, of PSG. For sure. Because just about everybody wants to have his childhood team seen taken over by some foreign state trying to use it as some kind of PR department - at the cheap price of getting guys like Neymar and Mbappe play for some time, that's all your soul costs. Congrats, man, you've understood nothing.

 

[Chimaera]

The miles and wear on Messi mean that moving to another league might accelerate the decline if you ask me.