2017 OHL Draft

[bobber]

Personally I am glad these scouts give us info on prospects for upcoming drafts. Otherwise we would mostly be left in the dark on these kids as most OHL fans do not attend minor hockey games unless they have a relative playing. Great insight guys and thank you for participating in this forum.

 

[MoWanchuk1]

Is it fair to ask the scouts on this board to present their qualifications for being a scout?

I am directing this question at RossyYoungblood, HOCCA Scouting, and Priority Selection.

What is your playing background and to what level?
What is your head coaching or assistant coaching background?
What is your scouting background with any major junior, USA Tier 1 Junior, or college (NCAA) team?
Have you done any scouting for anything a team or service other than a paid service or website? How long was your tenure?

These questions are meant to establish some credibility and to better understand your point of view as a scout.

It's totally fine if you do not have any of the experience listed above, but please let us know so we can understand the intent behind your opinions other than a paid website.

Again, if the paid website is the reason you are a scout, that is totally fine as well. I am just asking to understand.

I personally will answer the questions for you, even though I am not a scout. These answers are specific to the 2002, 2001, and 2000 birth year. I do not have experience outside of those birth years.

I have coached with or against a lot of the 2001 birth year players for the last 7 years, the 2000 birth years for the same, and the 2002s for about 6.

What is your playing background and to what level?
I played AAA through 2 years of D3 college hockey as a preferred walk-on.

What is your head coaching or assistant coaching background?
I have coached in the US and Windsor at the AAA Squirt through Bantam Major level.

What is your scouting background with any major junior, USA Tier 1 Junior, or college (NCAA) team?
None for me

Have you done any scouting for anything a team or service other than a paid service or website? Never. How long was your tenure? 0

I look forward to your responses.

Thank you

The answer to your question is no...we enjoy their input and hope they enjoy my views and everyone elses views. A quick google search will let you find out who is who from your group you have selected. It is irrelevant to me what their "qualifications" are to post on here so people can rip them for maybe not having played or coached at a high level....ITS THEIR OPINION ive been in war rooms years ago and even the best of scouts all have different opinions and will fight for their guy even if its not popular. This is a great site to chat and compare lists etc that i personally really enjoy and we dont need to make things personal by asking for qualifications..just my opinion do others agree or disagree?

 

[NV]

What is self-explanatory? That he has an NHL name on his back? He is a good player, not great. A 1st round pick? Politics at its finest, IMO. The tools he possesses are far more apparent in games against weak opponents and seem very minimized against the strong teams.

The jump to the OHL is going to be a big step, but again, I recommend evaluating these players on their performance against the good/great teams and you will see much different results.

Of the top picks, I can comment on the players that have the chance to have some longevity in hockey and to make an impact, the ones I don't know I'll withhold comment:

1. Suzuki, will keep getting better
2. Bertuzzi, limited ceiling on ability, will keep going as long as the political machine (daddy Bertuzzi) is in the loop
3. ?
4. Porco, very limited, have fun while it lasts
5. ?
6. Clarke, will grow into a top player
7. ?
8. Hughes, Combo of skill and massive political machine, should have a nice career with many roadblocks overcome by politics
9. - 15. - ?
16. Have fun while it lasts.
17. Really? NHL pedigree, AA skill.
19-21. ?

So, 3 of 21 picks were worthy in your eyes.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

As far as the OHL Cup goes, at no point did he drop a pile of F bombs like you described. Question his composure all you want, but don't go out of your way to rip the kid and don't make stuff up. The F bomb tirade never happened.

I was sitting about 30 feet away from him. He said, and I quote, "Yeah, who the **** are you? And who the **** are you, ***hole?!". Variations were also repeated.

I saw the words coming out of his mouth. I'm not ripping the kid, I'm repeating what I saw, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Is it fair to ask the scouts on this board to present their qualifications for being a scout?

I am directing this question at RossyYoungblood, HOCCA Scouting, and Priority Selection.

I can't answer for any but myself, but I will simply say that I'm not going to grant your request for "qualifications" by simple virtue of principle - that being, I don't feel myself, or any of us for that matter, need to justify ourselves to you.

The organizations from whom we work, be it a team, a third-party organization, a website or publication, have deemed our ability to evaluate talent at a high enough level for their association with us. That's all that matters.

If you were to enter a restaurant, and ask to see the chef's qualifications before ordering, you'd likely be told to eat elsewhere. I'll say the same. If you don't like or want to read what we have to say, read elsewhere or ignore. Attacking credibility for no other apparent reason than you disagree with us isn't exactly the seed of healthy debate.

 

[Easternfan]

I can't answer for any but myself, but I will simply say that I'm not going to grant your request for "qualifications" by simple virtue of principle - that being, I don't feel myself, or any of us for that matter, need to justify ourselves to you.

The organizations from whom we work, be it a team, a third-party organization, a website or publication, have deemed our ability to evaluate talent at a high enough level for their association with us. That's all that matters.

If you were to enter a restaurant, and ask to see the chef's qualifications before ordering, you'd likely be told to eat elsewhere. I'll say the same. If you don't like or want to read what we have to say, read elsewhere or ignore. Attacking credibility for no other apparent reason than you disagree with us isn't exactly the seed of healthy debate.

Well said HOCCA, please keep giving your opinions because we enjoy reading it and it is nice to become familiar with players coming up the pipeline. There will always be people who think they know better and no point arguing with them.

 

[Petey3329]

I have been apart of this forum since the 96 birth year and over the last two years it has seemed to be getting ridiculous. I haven't posted much on here lately because a lot of posters are now trying to attack other posters and that is just ridiculous. I am not a parent, I work in the industry (sort of) and I enjoy watching minor hockey almost more then I enjoy watching professional because of the sldesire to play. If you need qualifications from anyone then your on the wrong site.
This forum used to be back and forth discussion on skill and potential now it almost seems as if it's a constant parent thread for people who have different agendas. Not a fan. At the end of the day we're talking about 14/15 year old kids who will face more challenges each year and whom may develops or may not develope. I don't want to say it's a crap shoot because obviously there's a few players who live up to or pass there potential. But if you go back and look at my OHL draft year which was I believe 2004.. a lot of first round picks didn't pan out and a ton of later round picks did. Enjoy the game.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

I have been apart of this forum since the 96 birth year and over the last two years it has seemed to be getting ridiculous. I haven't posted much on here lately because a lot of posters are now trying to attack other posters and that is just ridiculous. I am not a parent, I work in the industry (sort of) and I enjoy watching minor hockey almost more then I enjoy watching professional because of the sldesire to play. If you need qualifications from anyone then your on the wrong site.
This forum used to be back and forth discussion on skill and potential now it almost seems as if it's a constant parent thread for people who have different agendas. Not a fan. At the end of the day we're talking about 14/15 year old kids who will face more challenges each year and whom may develops or may not develope. I don't want to say it's a crap shoot because obviously there's a few players who live up to or pass there potential. But if you go back and look at my OHL draft year which was I believe 2004.. a lot of first round picks didn't pan out and a ton of later round picks did. Enjoy the game.

Well said.

I share my thoughts because I hope to bring insight - while a lot of people watch games in OHL barns, I'm one of the dedicated souls who spend their nights and weekends sitting in cold community barns drinking bad coffee. I relish the ability to exchange opinions and ideas with other scouts, and when people start throwing shade on others in place of justifying their own position, it's a sad day.

There is an OHL GM who said to me during a conversation, and we share this opinion, "EVERYONE is a scout, and everyone has an opinion - the second you close yourself off to them, even as a GM, you're getting in the way of the end goal; making your team better."

He didn't mean listen to everyone, but if people put the time in, watch the games, you don't ask them to prove their voice before you're ready to hear it.

 

[OMG67]

Well said.

I share my thoughts because I hope to bring insight - while a lot of people watch games in OHL barns, I'm one of the dedicated souls who spend their nights and weekends sitting in cold community barns drinking bad coffee. I relish the ability to exchange opinions and ideas with other scouts, and when people start throwing shade on others in place of justifying their own position, it's a sad day.

There is an OHL GM who said to me during a conversation, and we share this opinion, "EVERYONE is a scout, and everyone has an opinion - the second you close yourself off to them, even as a GM, you're getting in the way of the end goal; making your team better."

He didn't mean listen to everyone, but if people put the time in, watch the games, you don't ask them to prove their voice before you're ready to hear it.

I don't necessarily think the OP of this topic was looking for a fight nor do I think they were looking for any reasons to discredit those like yourself that post your information for public consumption on this site.

I do think the OP of this topic could have been more diplomatic in asking his questions for the purpose of gaining information about those that profess to be scouts on this site.

I wouldn't take offense to anything that person said or requested. I also agree with your response to not justify providing that information. You don't need to justify yourself. Plain and simple.

What I do find disconcerting is the number of people that try to find an arguement when one shouldn't exist. We are seeing this in the mainstream political theatre right now as well. People twist words and/or misinterpret the meaning of someone's opinion because they did not express themselves very well and when that person tries to explain themselves better they are pounced on as trying to backpeddle. I see this a lot on this site as well. In some respects, I feel this may be the case on this topic.

I don't feel the OP was trying to be malicious but he came across that way so people pounced on him. I think it was his way of trying to draw a comparison between himself and those of you that scout for a purpose. Maybe he is trying to go down the same road and wants a measuring stick? That is sort of how I read into it. As mentioned, there are much better ways to ascertain that information.

I appreciate constructive commentary and debate. Although sometimes we don't get that on this site, I think in general that is appreciated. I for one appreciate the information provided by people such as yourself. I simply don't have the means to obtain that information organically.

Margaret Thatcher once said, "I always cheer up immensely when an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political arguement left." This is so true. When someone suggests that a poster is not and never has been a GM or a Coach they should not have an opinion. It is because that person has run out of arguements that make sense and are only left with personal attacks of credibility. I think if we all keep that in mind, this forum would be much better and we would all learn more from each other.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

I don't necessarily think the OP of this topic was looking for a fight nor do I think they were looking for any reasons to discredit those like yourself that post your information for public consumption on this site.

I do think the OP of this topic could have been more diplomatic in asking his questions for the purpose of gaining information about those that profess to be scouts on this site.

I wouldn't take offense to anything that person said or requested. I also agree with your response to not justify providing that information. You don't need to justify yourself. Plain and simple.

What I do find disconcerting is the number of people that try to find an arguement when one shouldn't exist. We are seeing this in the mainstream political theatre right now as well. People twist words and/or misinterpret the meaning of someone's opinion because they did not express themselves very well and when that person tries to explain themselves better they are pounced on as trying to backpeddle. I see this a lot on this site as well. In some respects, I feel this may be the case on this topic.

I don't feel the OP was trying to be malicious but he came across that way so people pounced on him. I think it was his way of trying to draw a comparison between himself and those of you that scout for a purpose. Maybe he is trying to go down the same road and wants a measuring stick? That is sort of how I read into it. As mentioned, there are much better ways to ascertain that information.

I appreciate constructive commentary and debate. Although sometimes we don't get that on this site, I think in general that is appreciated. I for one appreciate the information provided by people such as yourself. I simply don't have the means to obtain that information organically.

Margaret Thatcher once said, "I always cheer up immensely when an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political arguement left." This is so true. When someone suggests that a poster is not and never has been a GM or a Coach they should not have an opinion. It is because that person has run out of arguements that make sense and are only left with personal attacks of credibility. I think if we all keep that in mind, this forum would be much better and we would all learn more from each other.

Perhaps he was or wasn't, but the optics were poor. By asking for qualifications, you say two things - first off, that you are in a position to make others justify themselves, and second that said people must qualify their opinions. I take no offence, but I don't like what the element it brings to the thread - and that's not just to disagree with someone, but to undercut the credibility en masse. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me - I have heated debate with colleagues at almost every game!

I feel like if he wanted to solicit information on a level of inquiry, PM is the place for it - not calling it into the public spotlight.

I'm happy to discuss hockey and prospects with anyone - but only those who are respectful about it.

 

[BigBuck]

Perhaps he was or wasn't, but the optics were poor. By asking for qualifications, you say two things - first off, that you are in a position to make others justify themselves, and second that said people must qualify their opinions. I take no offence, but I don't like what the element it brings to the thread - and that's not just to disagree with someone, but to undercut the credibility en masse. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me - I have heated debate with colleagues at almost every game!

I feel like if he wanted to solicit information on a level of inquiry, PM is the place for it - not calling it into the public spotlight.

I'm happy to discuss hockey and prospects with anyone - but only those who are respectful about it.

Exactly , That is why we have lost so many of the good posters that used to be see in the draft thread. I like to see the comments on the young up and coming kids and follow there progress to the next levels of hockey. I hope we see more people like yourself and others posting again in the future, not about the posters but about the hockey players.

 

[hky01]

I was sitting about 30 feet away from him. He said, and I quote, "Yeah, who the **** are you? And who the **** are you, ***hole?!". Variations were also repeated.

I saw the words coming out of his mouth. I'm not ripping the kid, I'm repeating what I saw, and I wasn't the only one who saw it.

It never happened I guarantee you that. Don't make your own press

 

[TcNorth]

HOCCA Scouting, thank you for all of your insite!!! I, and most here, look forward to your comments.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

It never happened I guarantee you that. Don't make your own press

If you can give me one cogent reason as to why I would make it up, I would relish the chance to hear it. I know what I heard.

 

[Easternfan]

It never happened I guarantee you that. Don't make your own press

I heard the same exact story from a parent from that team and said there were scouts 20-30 ft away from the kid. All athletes get upset when they have a poor showing and that is called being very competitive. This might be one incident which happens, player will learn to keep his emotions intact as he matures, remember he is only 15 years old. Watched him many times this winter and he does get upset but never like that incident.

Moral of the story, it happened once , if it happens all the time then a problem. Kid has skill but still needs some fine tuning but which 15 yr old doesn't and goalies take longer.

 

[hky01]

If you can give me one cogent reason as to why I would make it up, I would relish the chance to hear it. I know what I heard.

never happened

 

[nothappy]

never happened

Were you there? He was playing poorly, his teammate was elevating his game and the kid saw his dream slipping away. The kid lost his mind. Hard to believe he did not drop an F-Bomb. Why would Hocca scouting make up this story?

Are you saying the kid does not swear, ever?

 

[BeenThereBefore]

I can't answer for any but myself, but I will simply say that I'm not going to grant your request for "qualifications" by simple virtue of principle - that being, I don't feel myself, or any of us for that matter, need to justify ourselves to you.

The organizations from whom we work, be it a team, a third-party organization, a website or publication, have deemed our ability to evaluate talent at a high enough level for their association with us. That's all that matters.

If you were to enter a restaurant, and ask to see the chef's qualifications before ordering, you'd likely be told to eat elsewhere. I'll say the same. If you don't like or want to read what we have to say, read elsewhere or ignore. Attacking credibility for no other apparent reason than you disagree with us isn't exactly the seed of healthy debate.

Just a question for you sorry if its bad that I post it on here. Curious about scouting, wanted to apply to ISS but I guess it costs 3000 dollars to scout for them? I just wanted to know if thats true, i have three friends who all applied and where accepted but they wanted money to scout for them. Is this how it works?

 

[freedom880]

Fairly new to this forum

I been reading posts from different members of HFBOARDS for over a year now. And I thought I was a hockey fanatic..by was I wrong. I am amazed at the knowledge of many a poster on this board and very grateful to be able to read and decipher there conscious thoughts put to words.. thank you very much and keep up the great work. Does anyone have an opinion of the Generals 2017 draft class. A response would be greatly appreciated. Take care for now.

 

[BarnMucker]

Who gives a **** if the kid swears on the ice. It would be very hypocritical if some of the best coaches in the game, such as Dale Hunter, or Mike Babcock would ever take that in a negative light. At any level in junior hockey you can expect coaches to be verbally aggressive towards players. At a seriously competitive level, it is immensely difficult to filter yourself. Swearing shows passion, the kid clearly set high expectations for himself, and was upset he didn't achieve them. Sure you can interpret it as he was "uncomposed" or you could interpret it as a 15 year old kid who wouldn't settle for less than his best.

 

[GoKnightsGo44]

Well said.

I share my thoughts because I hope to bring insight - while a lot of people watch games in OHL barns, I'm one of the dedicated souls who spend their nights and weekends sitting in cold community barns drinking bad coffee. I relish the ability to exchange opinions and ideas with other scouts, and when people start throwing shade on others in place of justifying their own position, it's a sad day.

There is an OHL GM who said to me during a conversation, and we share this opinion, "EVERYONE is a scout, and everyone has an opinion - the second you close yourself off to them, even as a GM, you're getting in the way of the end goal; making your team better."

He didn't mean listen to everyone, but if people put the time in, watch the games, you don't ask them to prove their voice before you're ready to hear it.

It's funny you mention that. I'm not a scout but had the pleasure to watch an OS game years back with Bob Murray who at the time was part of the Anaheim organization. He asked me as fan what my thoughts were on the players for both teams that night and said that who better to ask than someone who has watched every game. Bobby Ryan was drafted that year by the ducks

 

[TcNorth]

Shocked at the abuse the scouts are taking! If this were me talking bad about parents our team officials hiding behind their screen names, I would have been reprimanded or banned by now!

 

[sniper81]

Shocked at the abuse the scouts are taking! If this were me talking bad about parents our team officials hiding behind their screen names, I would have been reprimanded or banned by now!

Hockey Parents are monsters. I don't think those Scouts care what anyone's opinion of them lol. The cream always rises to the top anyways.

 

[attackfan71]

I would love to hear what your opinion is on the Owen sound draft.did we find any gems HOCCA SCOUTING?

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Who gives a **** if the kid swears on the ice. It would be very hypocritical if some of the best coaches in the game, such as Dale Hunter, or Mike Babcock would ever take that in a negative light. At any level in junior hockey you can expect coaches to be verbally aggressive towards players. At a seriously competitive level, it is immensely difficult to filter yourself. Swearing shows passion, the kid clearly set high expectations for himself, and was upset he didn't achieve them. Sure you can interpret it as he was "uncomposed" or you could interpret it as a 15 year old kid who wouldn't settle for less than his best.

A kid swearing after missing an open net is one thing.

A kid skating out at people, including officials, launching multiple F-bombs at them and subsequently having a mini-meltdown is extremely concerning if you're scouting a goaltender. Composure is kind of a big deal.