Speculation: 2017 Offseason Roster Discussion

[DesertDawg]

sure would be a good year to not vote for the escalator! Expansion brings in 23 more NHL contracts and there will be player movement anyways.

 

[Jakey53]

Run the numbers on capfriendly. The Coyotes need to add 12-15 million in salary to get to the floor next year, yet only really need one D, and most of the top 6 will be young players. It's going to be real interesting.

They very well could blow the pants off Shattenkirk with the reasoning that overpaying him by ~2 mil a year won't matter all that much over the span of his contract.

I'm really worried any significant positive moves will draw Doan back when he really should just walk away.

We have to add veterans on two or three year deals. We can't start over paying for players now with long contracts because in three years we will have cap problems. So far, we have been doing this rebuild right, so I sure hope they don't try to fast track it.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm not entirely convinced we're in such a hole for UFAs either. Sure I don't expect to bring in the Shattenkirks of the world at the very top of the list. But it was just last offseason we signed Goligoski after a strong pitch via trading for his rights and giving him the hard sell. The latter being something this team wasn't even attempting during Maloney's tenure.

Bigger issue is the UFA crop sucks more than our ability to attract them outside the very highest end ones.

Exploring trades is fine but going out there desperate is a bad idea.

I agree.

 

[Mosby]

Run the numbers on capfriendly. The Coyotes need to add 12-15 million in salary to get to the floor next year, yet only really need one D, and most of the top 6 will be young players. It's going to be real interesting.

They very well could blow the pants off Shattenkirk with the reasoning that overpaying him by ~2 mil a year won't matter all that much over the span of his contract.

I'm really worried any significant positive moves will draw Doan back when he really should just walk away.

This. We're not even close to the cap floor. Shattenkirk is a fit. The number before the deadline was 6 years, 7 mil. Probably around that number, despite his playoffs, to sign in Arizona.

Thornton, while unlikely, would be an ideal stop-gap at center. Wildly overpay him on a 2-year deal.

Perlini - Thornton - Vrbata
Domi - Dvorak - Duclair
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Fischer

OEL - Shattenkirk
Goose - Murphy
Chychrun - DeAngelo

Something like that.

 

[Jakey53]

This. We're not even close to the cap floor. Shattenkirk is a fit. The number before the deadline was 6 years, 7 mil. Probably around that number, despite his playoffs, to sign in Arizona.

Thornton, while unlikely, would be an ideal stop-gap at center. Wildly overpay him on a 2-year deal.

Perlini - Thornton - Vrbata
Domi - Dvorak - Duclair
Crouse - Strome - Rieder
Nook - Richardson - Fischer

OEL - Shattenkirk
Goose - Murphy
Chychrun - DeAngelo

Something like that.

Wildly overpaying for players is a recipe for disaster. Any two year deal for a vet I would be fine with, but over paying for a over rated Shattenkirk I'm not.

 

[cobra427]

Wildly overpaying for players is a recipe for disaster. Any two year deal for a vet I would be fine with, but over paying for a over rated Shattenkirk I'm not.

I am not sure any more if shatty is a good long term solution, his poor D scares me in a long term deal. If we have to out bid other teams, I had rather do it on a short term deal with a joe Thornton. We need a younger 1RHD that we need to acquire in a trade sooner or later. A stop gap at 1C/2C is fine while we let strome/DVO/Keller develop. At 1RHD, we need to find the right solution long term.

 

[Mosby]

I wouldn't mind sending a pick to the Capitals so we can do the Arizona selljob on Shattenkirk.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Is Shattenkirk an improvement over what we have? Yes.
Is he better than any other defenseman we could have by trade or UFA? Yes.
Sometimes we tend to overthink things.

 

[Jamieh]

For roughly half the price and 1/3rd of the term I would take any of Markov,
Wideman, Franson, or Russell rather than sign a long term high dollar contract with a glorified 3rd pairing guy who can play the PP. If I was choosing we would sign a couple of strong Vets for D to short term deals and let the kids grow around them.

Is Shattenkirk an improvement over what we have? Yes.
Is he better than any other defenseman we could have by trade or UFA? Yes.
Sometimes we tend to overthink things.

 

[SpaceCoyote]

I wouldn't mind sending a pick to the Capitals so we can do the Arizona selljob on Shattenkirk.

Really question how much credibility we've lost after doing this with Goligoski last year only to have all of our arena promises fall apart.

 

[Mosby]

More reason to do it I think. Need the extra time to explain and show what's going on. Easy to do that than with a few phone calls.

For roughly half the price and 1/3rd of the term I would take any of Markov,
Wideman, Franson, or Russell rather than sign a long term high dollar contract with a glorified 3rd pairing guy who can play the PP. If I was choosing we would sign a couple of strong Vets for D to short term deals and let the kids grow around them.

Markov isn't leaving Montreal (and is on the verge of retirement, anyway). Wideman comes with a lawsuit around his neck.

 

[tucknroll]

disregard, just saw in other thread

 

[Jamieh]

Just examples, there are 6 or more guys on the UFA list that will be much cheaper and shorter term and can actually play hockey when both teams have same number of players on the ice. And they won't be a boat anchor when our kids are ready to go.
Shattenkirk showed us on two teams this year that he worth neither the term or the money.

More reason to do it I think. Need the extra time to explain and show what's going on. Easy to do that than with a few phone calls.




Markov isn't leaving Montreal (and is on the verge of retirement, anyway). Wideman comes with a lawsuit around his neck.

 

[Jakey53]

I am not sure any more if shatty is a good long term solution, his poor D scares me in a long term deal. If we have to out bid other teams, I had rather do it on a short term deal with a joe Thornton. We need a younger 1RHD that we need to acquire in a trade sooner or later. A stop gap at 1C/2C is fine while we let strome/DVO/Keller develop. At 1RHD, we need to find the right solution long term.

I agree.

 

[rt]

Really question how much credibility we've lost after doing this with Goligoski last year only to have all of our arena promises fall apart.

Exactly. It was smoke and mirrors and we've been exposed. Everyone knows.

 

[Lilhoody]

I don't get the Thornton love. He isn't a 1C and only won @50% of his FO's last year. He is a terrible stop gap choice, IMO.

 

[cobra427]

Really question how much credibility we've lost after doing this with Goligoski last year only to have all of our arena promises fall apart.

We paid Gogo market value. I doubt he would have received a better deal from another team. trading a future pick just gave us more time with less chance of somebody else swaying him. We can do the same with anyone else, but it is always about money for UFA's with few exceptions.

 

[cobra427]

I don't get the Thornton love. He isn't a 1C and only won @50% of his FO's last year. He is a terrible stop gap choice, IMO.

I think he is fading and will sign with san Jose anyway. But he is a vet 1C/2C still and a set up C for all of our speedy wingers. The teams that could use him for a cup run likely can't pay him market value. If San jose doesn't work out, I could see him coming to Phoenix on a short deal or signing for less than market value with a contender for a cup run.

 

[Lilhoody]

I think he is fading and will sign with san Jose anyway. But he is a vet 1C/2C still and a set up C for all of our speedy wingers. The teams that could use him for a cup run likely can't pay him market value. If San jose doesn't work out, I could see him coming to Phoenix on a short deal or signing for less than market value with a contender for a cup run.

I'd rather try to attract and sign a Haula, who is a decade younger, took similar draws last year (at a higher win %), cheaper and possible able to grow, rather than regress.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

You want to sign Joe Thornton to show Strome and Dvorak how to play center at the NHL level the way both of those guys play.

You hope you can get him and then promise to trade him to the contender of his choice at the TDL.

 

[rt]

I don't get the Thornton love. He isn't a 1C and only won @50% of his FO's last year. He is a terrible stop gap choice, IMO.

In what world is a bonafide 1C considered a "stop-gap"? Think about that.

I'd love to sign him to a one-year, 7mil contract with a full NMC (so he can call his spot) and a handshake agreement to retain 50% of his salary at the deadline in a trade with a contender of his choice.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

In what world is a bonafide 1C considered a "stop-gap"? Think about that.

I'd love to sign him to a one-year, 7mil contract with a full NMC (so he can call his spot) and a handshake agreement to retain 50% of his salary at the deadline in a trade with a contender of his choice.

Yeah, we pay 5-6mil we need to spend anyway to reach the floor.

In exchange we speed up the development of Strome and Dvorak by two years if all goes right.

 

[Lilhoody]

In what world is a bonafide 1C considered a "stop-gap"? Think about that.

I'd love to sign him to a one-year, 7mil contract with a full NMC (so he can call his spot) and a handshake agreement to retain 50% of his salary at the deadline in a trade with a contender of his choice.

He's like Doan to me and I don't see him as a 1C any longer.

Specifically, on the Coyotes? Yes, he would be the 1C. Hanzal would be too and wins more draws (took almost double last year as well). Point wise, he puts up better numbers than Hanzal, but he plays with better people.

Like I said, I just don't get the Thornton love. 3 and 4 years ago, I would have joined the love fest.

This team has and has had FO mentors, over paying a dinosaur to play with two zippy wingers and maybe teach the kids (maybe) seems flawed.

 

[rt]

He's like Doan to me and I don't see him as a 1C any longer.

Specifically, on the Coyotes? Yes, he would be the 1C. Hanzal would be too and wins more draws (took almost double last year as well). Point wise, he puts up better numbers than Hanzal, but he plays with better people.

Like I said, I just don't get the Thornton love. 3 and 4 years ago, I would have joined the love fest.

This team has and has had FO mentors, over paying a dinosaur to play with two zippy wingers and maybe teach the kids (maybe) seems flawed.

Slow down. Why I the world would this team be looking to acquire an elite level all-star in his early thirties, absolute prime making mega millions on a long term deal and looking for a cup? That's Thornton four years ago and making that trade makes absolutely no sense at all. We are talking about a stop gap. Stop gaps have warts. It's why they're stop gaps.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Thornton is one year off being a ppg center, fifth in hart voting, fifth in selke voting...