Speculation: 2017 Offseason/Expansion Draft Part II

[NJDevs26]

For those not wanting to trade for Duchene, do you guys think we should trade Hall and Schneider?

In my opinion Shero has two routes to go:

Route 1 is to keep Hall and Schneider. Go HARD after Shattenkirk. Go hard after Duchene/Top 4 LHD/Top 6 winger. And try to make playoffs as early as next season.

Route 2 is to trade Hall and Schneider and go full on rebuild mode. 2018 tank for Dahlin.

In my opinion I would go route 1. Devils haven't made the playoffs in 5 straight seasons now. Its time to get back to the post season. The Pru Center will be EMPTY for the next two seasons if Shero goes option 2.

If he wants to go middle ground and keep Hall/Schneider but continue to just build through the draft, then we will most likely lose Hall due to a trade request.

If he goes option two now then these first two years were an utter failure, he could have just traded Cory and others before now to blow it completely up instead of treading water THEN blowing it up.

 

[Triumph]

Here's a fact about Duchene that will probably surprise everybody.

If Duchene were traded to the Devils in June, he would be 4 months younger than Kovalchuk was when he was traded to the Devils.

 

[Zippy316]

If he goes option two now then these first two years were an utter failure, he could have just traded Cory and others before now to blow it completely up instead of treading water THEN blowing it up.

I think if you're Shero you try to improve the team next year by strengthening the D and looking to improve the forward group. I wouldn't do anything rash with the forwards just yet.

As for Hall, I wouldn't be surprised if Shero dangled him out there. Not looking to trade him per se, but challenging a team to make an offer the Devils can't refuse.

 

[217 Forever]

If he goes option two now then these first two years were an utter failure, he could have just traded Cory and others before now to blow it completely up instead of treading water THEN blowing it up.

I don't even see option #2 as any kind of option. I know people are worried about Hall leaving, but all we can do is hope that the team starts showing improvement and that he wants to stay. If half-way through his last year he basically refuses to re-sign then fine but if we deal him now then we are going full-on 76ers mode (i.e. "rebuilding" until the end of civilization). That would finish me off as a fan.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

For those not wanting to trade for Duchene, do you guys think we should trade Hall and Schneider?

In my opinion Shero has two routes to go:

Route 1 is to keep Hall and Schneider. Go HARD after Shattenkirk. Go hard after Duchene/Top 4 LHD/Top 6 winger. And try to make playoffs as early as next season.

Route 2 is to trade Hall and Schneider and go full on rebuild mode. 2018 tank for Dahlin.

In my opinion I would go route 1. Devils haven't made the playoffs in 5 straight seasons now. Its time to get back to the post season. The Pru Center will be EMPTY for the next two seasons if Shero goes option 2.

If he wants to go middle ground and keep Hall/Schneider but continue to just build through the draft, then we will most likely lose Hall due to a trade request.

IMO, this offseason will tell us where this team is heading. If Shero has a big offseason, he'll try and build around Hall and Schneider but if he can't bring in legit talent, for whatever reason, I can definitely see him dealing one or the other, or both.

If we suck next year, which is highly possible, we have to move a key player in order to maximize our return cause the 2018 draft is labeled as being one of the best drafts in a long, long time. With that said, if we finish roughly where we are ATM, meaning a top #3-#6 pick, there's no way Shero will be able to turn things around for Hall to be interested in resigning with a team that looks to be going nowhere, when he's been on that ride for the entirety of his career. If that's the case, Schneider has to go as well cause keeping a top #5 goalie in a rebuild, at that age, is just foolish.

However, if Shero is able to land Shattenkirk for nothing but money and a solid top #4 left handed D-man with the surplus of picks like he did with Palmieri, I wouldn't be against moving our 1st for a player that would fit Shero's plan. There's a lot of talk here in Montreal that Alex Galchenyuk isn't giving it his all and isn't satisfied with his current role and icetime. There's rumblings on several radio and TV shows that are saying that they wouldn't be surprised if he was moved during the offseason if he doesn't get his act together. If that's true, I wouldn't mind dealing our pick and something else for Galchenyuk, if he his made available.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I don't even see option #2 as any kind of option. I know people are worried about Hall leaving, but all we can do is hope that the team starts showing improvement and that he wants to stay. If half-way through his last year he basically refuses to re-sign then fine but if we deal him now then we are going full-on 76ers mode (i.e. "rebuilding" until the end of civilization). That would finish me off as a fan.

I agree with this, but I just think the Rock will be empty for the next 2-3 years if Shero doesn't start to make a decision on which way he wants this team to go.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I don't even see option #2 as any kind of option. I know people are worried about Hall leaving, but all we can do is hope that the team starts showing improvement and that he wants to stay. If half-way through his last year he basically refuses to re-sign then fine but if we deal him now then we are going full-on 76ers mode (i.e. "rebuilding" until the end of civilization). That would finish me off as a fan.

That's nonsense.

People are acting as if we'd get a garbage return for Hall or Schneider. We already have some promising kids and we'd be adding even more talent with those trades. We have to face reality at some point, if we continue to be a bottom 5 team, and that's dealing with the possibility of losing our best asset.

Next years draft can really help us out moving forward. If adding another year or two in order to get a team that's stacked with promising players, who's contracts are team controlled, wouldn't be a problem for me.

I'd rather have a team that sucks for 5 years instead of being mediocre like the Canes for the past decade plus.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

That's nonsense.

People are acting as if we'd get a garbage return for Hall or Schneider. We already have some promising kids and we'd be adding even more talent with those trades. We have to face reality at some point, if we continue to be a bottom 5 team, and that's dealing with the possibility of losing our best asset.

Next years draft can really help us out moving forward. If adding another year or two in order to get a team that's stacked with promising players, who's contracts are team controlled, wouldn't be a problem for me.

I'd rather have a team that sucks for 5 years instead of being mediocre like the Canes for the past decade plus.

I would agree with this, but the thing is, we've already sucked for 5 years. so it would probably be that we would suck for 9 or 10 years.

 

[Hellraiser]

IMO, this offseason will tell us where this team is heading. If Shero has a big offseason, he'll try and build around Hall and Schneider but if he can't bring in legit talent, for whatever reason, I can definitely see him dealing one or the other, or both.

If we suck next year, which is highly possible, we have to move a key player in order to maximize our return cause the 2018 draft is labeled as being one of the best drafts in a long, long time. With that said, if we finish roughly where we are ATM, meaning a top #3-#6 pick, there's no way Shero will be able to turn things around for Hall to be interested in resigning with a team that looks to be going nowhere, when he's been on that ride for the entirety of his career. If that's the case, Schneider has to go as well cause keeping a top #5 goalie in a rebuild, at that age, is just foolish.

However, if Shero is able to land Shattenkirk for nothing but money and a solid top #4 left handed D-man with the surplus of picks like he did with Palmieri, I wouldn't be against moving our 1st for a player that would fit Shero's plan. There's a lot of talk here in Montreal that Alex Galchenyuk isn't giving it his all and isn't satisfied with his current role and icetime. There's rumblings on several radio and TV shows that are saying that they wouldn't be surprised if he was moved during the offseason if he doesn't get his act together. If that's true, I wouldn't mind dealing our pick and something else for Galchenyuk, if he his made available.

I like the idea of trading for Galchenyuk, but I'm not willing to part with our top 10 pick even if they won't be making an impact for a while. If only we could use our surplus of picks to trade back into the first round and package that with Henrique/Zajac and add in a mid-level prospect, I think that should be enough to get the deal done. My value might be a little off

 

[None Shall Pass]

From Friedman's 30 thoughts:

"...That includes Vladimir Tkachyov, a centre who was being pursued by the likes of Edmonton, New Jersey and Toronto. It appears less likely he will leave the KHL."

Dude's stats looked good. Sigh.

 

[Burner Account]

Do not trade the pick

 

[Tundra]

For those not wanting to trade for Duchene, do you guys think we should trade Hall and Schneider?

In my opinion Shero has two routes to go:

Route 1 is to keep Hall and Schneider. Go HARD after Shattenkirk. Go hard after Duchene/Top 4 LHD/Top 6 winger. And try to make playoffs as early as next season.

Route 2 is to trade Hall and Schneider and go full on rebuild mode. 2018 tank for Dahlin.

In my opinion I would go route 1. Devils haven't made the playoffs in 5 straight seasons now. Its time to get back to the post season. The Pru Center will be EMPTY for the next two seasons if Shero goes option 2.

If he wants to go middle ground and keep Hall/Schneider but continue to just build through the draft, then we will most likely lose Hall due to a trade request.

Route 1 sounds like something Glen Sather tried a few times in NY. Sorry but I'll pass.

 

[Brodeur]

From Friedman's 30 thoughts:

"...That includes Vladimir Tkachyov, a centre who was being pursued by the likes of Edmonton, New Jersey and Toronto. It appears less likely he will leave the KHL."

Dude's stats looked good. Sigh.

Just to clarify, there are two Vladimir Tkachyov/Tkachevs:

Smaller left wing who was born in '95 and played in the QMJHL: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?encode=TRUE&pid=163405

Two way center who was born in '93: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?encode=TRUE&pid=176813

I think Friedman was reporting about the 2nd one.

A few years back, Tkachev #1 went undrafted but impressed the Oilers as a prospect camp invite. They tried to sign him to an ELC but their management staff misread the rules regarding signing undrafted guys with remaining draft eligibility. Tkachev played a couple KHL games that year, so that made him ineligible to be signed.

It'll be interesting if some of the Euros hold off on signing in North America for a year now. Tkachev #2 would seemingly be a bubble guy to represent Russia if the NHLers were prohibited. Vadim Shipachyov and Evgeni Dadonov probably would have made the cut even with the NHLers involved, so they might have a tougher decision.

 

[217 Forever]

That's nonsense.

People are acting as if we'd get a garbage return for Hall or Schneider. We already have some promising kids and we'd be adding even more talent with those trades. We have to face reality at some point, if we continue to be a bottom 5 team, and that's dealing with the possibility of losing our best asset.

Next years draft can really help us out moving forward. If adding another year or two in order to get a team that's stacked with promising players, who's contracts are team controlled, wouldn't be a problem for me.

I'd rather have a team that sucks for 5 years instead of being mediocre like the Canes for the past decade plus.

I didn't realize there was some rule that says if you go through five of years sucking and doing nothing but trading for draft picks that in year six you automatically become a good team.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I didn't realize there was some rule that says if you go through five of years sucking and doing nothing but trading for draft picks that in year six you automatically become a good team.

There's no rule but there is a pattern and a certain logic in how to build a professional sports team in 2017. Back in the days, you could count on adding talent through free agency but today, all the elite players are locked up before even having the chance to test free agenc. So because of that, you need to build through the draft and the best way to get talent is by being able to pick in the top #5.

If you look at all the good teams now, they all went through a rough stretch, managed to pickup solid talent via the draft and added solid pieces to surround their young talent.

 

[Zippy316]

There's no rule but there is a pattern and a certain logic in how to build a professional sports team in 2017. Back in the days, you could count on adding talent through free agency but today, all the elite players are locked up before even having the chance to test free agenc. So because of that, you need to build through the draft and the best way to get talent is by being able to pick in the top #5.

If you look at all the good teams now, they all went through a rough stretch, managed to pickup solid talent via the draft and added solid pieces to surround their young talent.

Not really true at all. UFA age used to be 30.

Problem now is teams are being smart and locking up their young players to long-term deals to keep them signed through their prime.

There's no right way to rebuild. Burning it down and getting tons of picks doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Not really true at all. UFA age used to be 30.

Problem now is teams are being smart and locking up their young players to long-term deals to keep them signed through their prime.

There's no right way to rebuild. Burning it down and getting tons of picks doesn't guarantee anything.

You had wayyyyyy more talent available in free agency back then, I don't know how you can even say otherwise. With the salary cap, adding young talent with cheap contracts is the way to go, not patch jobs like Lou was trying to achieve for 4 straight years.

 

[217 Forever]

You had wayyyyyy more talent available in free agency back then, I don't know how you can even say otherwise. With the salary cap, adding young talent with cheap contracts is the way to go, not patch jobs like Lou was trying to achieve for 4 straight years.

I generally agree, but even with that notion I don't think you trade your best player this far in advance of his UFA date. Not only might he want to stay, but that sends a really awful message to your fan base (especially one as fickle as ours). Not everyone is as "sophisticated" as people on HF Boards. Trying to have a reasonable product while you rebuild is hardly a bad thing.

 

[Triumph]

You had wayyyyyy more talent available in free agency back then, I don't know how you can even say otherwise. With the salary cap, adding young talent with cheap contracts is the way to go, not patch jobs like Lou was trying to achieve for 4 straight years.

There was more talent available but it was older and more expensive relative to the rest of the league. Teams between the 1995 and 2005 lockouts were certainly able to augment good teams with older stars in order to win, but no successful team was built just through signing UFAs, or even had that as their chief mode of player acquisition.

 

[JrFischer54]

Love reading but finally jumping into the fire


Someone mentioned about dealing the pick for duchene and honestly I think the avs will do a straight up swap for it. Like mentioned before cheap young price locked talent is a huge commodity. Think how attractive to the avs the first and third pick would be? The main worry with making the deal is the ufa part. Honestly that's a concern but hall is going to be in the same boat in what three years? People are going to say forwards tail off in their mid to late 20s? Maybe so but honestly then what we shouldnt resign hall since he will be 27? I think if the devils did trade for him duchense would be thrilled to get out of Colorado give the devils a long look come ufa and honestly how many teams could afford him anyway ? Not many contenders can afford a 8 million dollar forward so he isn't going to have a ton of teams knocking down his door.

I think getting legit #1 center now that can help this team is a no brainer when the prospects upside is what duchense is already. I'm not a pro scout but reading the profiles of the prospects seem their top out is what 60-70pts? Well that's what I think a motivated fresh duchense will be back to.

Buuuuuut I will say this I don't know if ownership would sign off on this trade knowing he will be paid what 6 million now and probably 8 million in two years? Gotta ask yourself too what free agent will come around in the next two years that is "worth" what they will be offered?

The devils pick will have its most value before the player is drafted after seeing what yakapov went for what 3 years after he was drafted? I say give me the proven NHL talent and let some other team take on the "risk" of a prospect and if he busts or not Sorry for the long msg just been waiting to get that out there

Make the deal go after shatenkirk and make a run for Carlson next year if he is there. That would be my play but I don't know if ownership wants to spend that. Shows duchense and hall and shatenkirk we are committed to winning now

 

[Devils090]

Here's a fact about Duchene that will probably surprise everybody.

If Duchene were traded to the Devils in June, he would be 4 months younger than Kovalchuk was when he was traded to the Devils.

Well he isn't half the player Kovy was sooo..

 

[hidek91]

For those not wanting to trade for Duchene, do you guys think we should trade Hall and Schneider?

In my opinion Shero has two routes to go:

Route 1 is to keep Hall and Schneider. Go HARD after Shattenkirk. Go hard after Duchene/Top 4 LHD/Top 6 winger. And try to make playoffs as early as next season.

Route 2 is to trade Hall and Schneider and go full on rebuild mode. 2018 tank for Dahlin.

In my opinion I would go route 1. Devils haven't made the playoffs in 5 straight seasons now. Its time to get back to the post season. The Pru Center will be EMPTY for the next two seasons if Shero goes option 2.

If he wants to go middle ground and keep Hall/Schneider but continue to just build through the draft, then we will most likely lose Hall due to a trade request.

I'd pick route 2. The only drawback would be empty arena but in reality we can't make playoffs next year unless:
- gamble with draft picks/prospects happens e.g. we get Duchene, Landeskog etc.
- we sign Shattenkirk
- other NJD players play well

Which isn't going to happen. I'd trade both Schneider and Hall. We have to accept that rebuild is going to take a long time and we're in the beginning of the road.

If he goes option two now then these first two years were an utter failure, he could have just traded Cory and others before now to blow it completely up instead of treading water THEN blowing it up.

What happens now doesn't change what was done in the past and reality is that NHL should have started full-blown rebuilt after Kovalchuk left. Nothing that happens now or in the future, will make up for a lost time, what we can do is to tank, rebuild completely, sell veterans and enjoy our prizes on the draft days.

 

[Triumph]

It's not going to happen, guys. You can talk about it all you like, but the Devils simply are not going to sell everything off and start over.

 

[Tundra]

It's not going to happen, guys. You can talk about it all you like, but the Devils simply are not going to sell everything off and start over.

Some vets may talk their way off this sinking boat. That's what I expect to happen. I expect the entrenched losing culture to force Schneider, Greene, etc. half way, so Ray finally has some maneuverability in crafting his team.

 

[Triumph]

Some vets may talk their way off this sinking boat. That's what I expect to happen. I expect the entrenched losing culture to force Schneider, Greene, etc. half way, so Ray finally has some maneuverability in crafting his team.

Manueverability? He has $24M in theoretical cap space for next year (counting Clowe on LTIR). There's all the manueverability in the world.

The only person who's in a position to demand a trade is Schneider. Greene isn't very good anymore and he still has 3 years left on his deal.