U20: 2017 IIHF Ice Hockey U20 World Championship Div. I Group A

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by kabidjan18, Dec 6, 2016.

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  1. ozo

    ozo Registered User

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    Kazakhstan doing their best to actually relegate Norway.
     
  2. ozo

    ozo Registered User

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    Emilio Pettersen will have to report to div 1B. I would love to see that.
     
  3. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    Looks like Belarus is just 20 min away from going up to the elite.
     
  4. PanniniClaus

    PanniniClaus Registered User

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    France can grab a silver...that would be something.

    Norway to the B side......that will hurt.
     
  5. WhiteWings*

    WhiteWings* Registered User

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    So Belarus is represented in both U-18 and U-20 elite divisions now. 7 players are eligible to come back next year.
    The only B prospect Maxim Sushko had 1 goal in 5 games. Not a good pre-draft showing for him.
     
  6. SoundAndFury

    SoundAndFury Registered User

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    Wow Norway, wow.
     
  7. Belizarius

    Belizarius Registered User

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    And France fights a lot. Now it's 6-4 Germany.
    Texier has 2 assists.
     
  8. Belizarius

    Belizarius Registered User

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    Germany wins, 6-4.
    France finishes 3rd of the tournament, great performance.
    Gabin Ville lead the tournament in scoring with 12 pts. Bastian Maia has 10 pts. Alexandre Texier 8.
     
  9. airbus1094

    airbus1094 Registered User

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    What's with Norway having trouble against Kaz, they lost against us at the u18 and u20 last year as well.
     
  10. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    Wonder if Andrei Belevich will get a chance at Dinamo Minsk. Vasilchuk probably won't but Belevich might.
     
  11. BalticWarrior

    BalticWarrior Registered User

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    Do you guys think theres some bigger underlying problem with Norwegian hockey or is it just one off event? I mean falling off to DIV 1 B is pretty embarrasing.
     
  12. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    Kazakhstan has improved in the last few years, France and Austria had a good year. That's it, really. Nothing extraordinary has happened. It's not the first time Norway is going to play at that level either.

    I guess the competition has become a little bit tighter at the D1A level, but you can never say for sure. With such a huge turnover of players, the picture might look completely different again in a couple of years.
     
  13. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    The same exact thing happened last year and at the younger age groups they aren't doing good. It could be different in a few years but it is somewhat of a trend.

    The rise of Denmark has come at the cost of Norway because they share pipelines.
     
  14. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    oh, come on, that was just Div1 with quite a crappy level of hockey. those guys are definitely not going to be the new kostitsyns or grabovski.
     
  15. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    I never said that, I merely wondered if they wouldn't even get a chance at the national club team. The fact that you as a Belarus homer have so little faith in your boys is kinda sad.
     
  16. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    he's only 17! hopefully he'll be more productive in the future as he's eligible to play for belarus u20 two years more.
     
  17. WhiteWings*

    WhiteWings* Registered User

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    Off course. I know he was injured and didn't play for his OHL team prior to the tournament for a while.
    Also I have a question.
    I was going through the Russian junior teams rosters and noticed a lot of guys with Belarussian flags next to their names.
    The Russian U-17 team at the WHC-17 had Daniil Misyul on the roster, born in Minsk, Belarus:
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?year0=&team=6027
    Russia U-20 team at the Super Series had 2 players from Belarus: Pavel Karnaukhov from Minsk and Roman Krikunenko from Novopolotsk (I know that Kostitsyns brothers are from there).
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?year0=&team=16796
    Russia U-19 team had Kirill Ustimenko on the roster, born in Gomel, Belarus:
    http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?year0=&team=8636
    [​IMG] Jr Super Series

    I've never saw so many Belarus born players on the Russian teams rosters. Is there any specific reason for that?
    Kirill Ustimenko
    Kirill Ustimenko
     
  18. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    Yes, you haven't seen many russian rosters.

    Just surprised they haven't flipped Pavel Lapin yet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  19. WhiteWings*

    WhiteWings* Registered User

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    So, for me it looks like Belarus spends money to invite Canadian and American players to play for they national teams, but loses their most talented kids to Russia? If that's the case then it looks like hockey in that country is ruled by idiots. I heard that Galchenyuk is also coming from Belarussian heritage -- his father played for their national team.
    I'm surprised they still managed to make it to the both U-20 and U-18 elite divisions.
     
  20. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    It's not that simple, but the situation around Belorussian hockey is actually quite debilitating. [MOD]

    Firstly, they would ideally be able to develop prospects in a more advanced development system like Russia. Slovakia does this with the Czech Republic, Austria (Davos, Lugano, Zurich, Kloten), France (Geneva), Italy (Lugano) do this with Switzerland, Denmark and Norway do this with Sweden, etc. However, Russia tends to poach the top players. Regulations are set up in a way that there is more money and better job security for people to have Russian citizenship and registration. So off the top, the good players who move to Russia are stolen. Russia and Belarus are so large geographically, and customs are different because of the lack of a eurozone so commuting is unrealistic and so every player who moves to Russia to play is eligible for poaching. Switzerland is cracking down on free-riders, which will hurt France the most, however players can still get a domestic license which allows them to count as a domestic player at the senior level (which as you will see is the important one)

    So they try to develop a domestic development structure, and they do a pretty good job. But temporary joy over junior victories betrays a harsh reality. The juniors you saw in that Bremerhaven tournament you will probably never see again. The main problem is that the local league doesn't have enough legios so it is incredibly weak. Belarus hockey is a single-club entity, Dinamo Minsk. The club is a safe haven to all the best Belorussians, and as a result is woefully over-crowded. Minsk has 12 defenders and had 20 forwards on it's roster at one point this season. Because it is a KHL squad it also carries Legios. Thus, the majority of Juniors are forced to stay in the weak local league, where competition is not high enough for them to develop as players. Belevich for example is already PPG in the Senior league. Youth exported overseas to Canada or America stay for a while and find some work, but when work runs out and they return are forced to sit the bench at Dinamo Minsk or play in the Belorussian league. Lack of development between the ages of 19 and 23 when players should be adjusting from dominating youth hockey to strong senior hockey players is lost. As a result, they need to naturalize legios to play for the senior team, but that makes it even worse when say an Andrei Stepanov (a naturalized Russian) becomes Belorussian and comes to Dinamo Minsk. He doesn't count against the import quota, allowing them to import more players and eats up ice time from locally developed players who might have more potential.

    I've heard stray rumors about the sports ministry funding another KHL team to help the situation but the KHL doesn't seem incredibly interested in this and it would be a wildly expensive venture. They're not stupid, they're doing what they can and they've built a great development system for kids aged formative-U20. However, there isn't always a whole lot to be done.

    That's why I asked if Belevich (scored 9 points in 5 games this tourney) will get a chance to play in Minsk next year. It is incredibly crowded, but maybe if they drop last year's U20 top scorer Danila Karaban there might be some room, but only enough to play 5 minutes every other game.
     
    Last edited by moderator garnetpalmetto: Dec 19, 2016
  21. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    well, those naive guys think that getting new passports with a two-headed eagle on the cover will give a boost to their hockey career both on the national and international levels. besides, some russian hockey academies are scouting for talented youngsters and encourage them to move to russia together with their parents providing them with money to settle down and even well-paid jobs to their parents on condition that they give up their sport nationality. the sad thing is that there are ZERO players of belarusian origin who have made it to the russian national team or developed into a decent khl/nhl player after changing their hockey nationality. most of them were "digested" by the russian hockey system and simply dumped out as the competition in russian hockey is extremely high.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  22. Namejs

    Namejs The Buffalo Dahlins

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    It actually boils down to the simple fact that Belarus and Russia are politically, culturally and linguistically nearly identical. They have a shared identity. If you're Belarusian, there aren't a lot of reasons to refuse playing for Team Russia, if you're given the chance.
     
    Last edited by moderator garnetpalmetto: Dec 19, 2016
  23. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    btw, dinamo minsk are getting rid of their highly paid naturalized north-american players. linglet's out, bailen's out (a shocking piece of news for me this morning!) and, i guess, lalande will be next. who knows, maybe the club management will be giving more chances to the young belarusian players like belevich, vasilchuk, etc.
     
  24. kabidjan18

    kabidjan18 Registered User

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    Sounds like a scholar's take but sounds oversimplified. I think they do it the same reason any Canadian would do it. Not wildly familiar with the culture but even between similar states there's always a sense of patriotism.

    I'm aware. The general hope is that the Canadian ones will get jobs elsewhere with their legio status, let a Russian one go and he gives up his passport for local status. Linglet was essentially sent to his retirement but he wasn't playing worth the weight anymore. Bailen needed to go, needed to make room for Falkvosky, Dyukov, Yevenko all probably returning home sometime in the near future. They may naturalize some more guys for this upcoming WC, we'll see. I feel like Drozd will also be dropped, he's a dud, but drop Drozd and maybe Karaban as well and that's room enough for Belevich. Or Matuherkin retires. Valischuk's club form isn't as convincing as Belevich so I think Belevich is first in line.
     
  25. Dima_BLR

    Dima_BLR Registered User

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    gosh, drozd is such a piece of wood! he's as useless as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest :laugh: he missed two or three 100% scoring chances including an empty net shot from like 2 meters today in the game vs. metallurg novokuznetsk. can't wait to see him kicked out from the team for good!
    [​IMG]
    :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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