Speculation: 2017-18 Roster Discussion

[LightningStrikes]

Whether we make the playoffs or not this season, let's take a look at what we have when everybody is healthy:

Centers:
Stamkos
Johnson
Point
Gourde
Namestnikov
McKegg
Dumont
Paquette
(Drouin)

Left wings:
Drouin
Palat
Killorn
Erne
(Stamkos)

Right wings:
Kucherov
Callahan
Brown
Vermin (leaving for EU)
(Drouin)
(Killorn)
(Palat)

(In parentheses guys able to play the position)


We're obviously lacking natural right wings right now. Drouin, Killer, even Palat can play it but they all feel better at LW. Not sure Callahan is up for top-6 RW duty on the regular.

We'll probably lose a center to the expansion draft (Namestnikov?) or to a trade (Johnson?) and will still be deep at the position.

So the much needed upgrade on defense aside, should we target a free agent RW? Oshie (probably too expensive) aside the group of free agents in 2017 doesn't offer much though.

Click to read more...

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Hopefully we bring Gusev over. Would really help us balance out scoring across all four lines. I think him and Drouin would be great together, but knowing Cooper that would never happen.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Palat-Stamkos-Drouin
Gusev-Point-Kucherov
Killorn-Johnson-Namestnikov
Erne-Dumont-Gourde



Still good if we lose guys.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Is it confirmed that Vermin is leaving? I'd like him to stay.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Is it confirmed that Vermin is leaving? I'd like him to stay.

According to the yet unconfirmed information of 24 heures, the 24-year-old's contract with Lausanne HC also includes an out-clause for a one-way deal with an NHL team. The former player of SC Bern could, therefore, also stay in North America given that an NHL team is interested in acquiring his services. His contract with the Tampa Bay Lightning is running out, though.

As the same source wrote a day later, Lausanne HC and Vermin have supposedly agreed on a five-year contract, which would keep the forward in Lausanne until the end of the 2021-22 season.

https://www.swisshockeynews.ch/inde...eportedly-joins-lausanne-hc-as-of-next-season

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Damn.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Palat - Stamkos - Drouin
Point - Johnson - Kucherov
Erne - Namestnikov - Callahan
Paquette - Gourde - Brown
Dumont

Hedman - Dotchin
Koekkoek - Stralman
Coburn - Sustr
Blujus

Killorn to expansion and Garrison for anything, would have probably 10mil to add a free agent or trade for a high priced player. Great top 6, 3rd line could be good if Callahan returns to form and the 4th line with Gourde could be really good. The defense is the same with Koekkoek in for Garrison, still need more offense from back there but there's money to go after that if we want.

 

[MattM92]

Palat - Stamkos - Drouin
Point - Johnson - Kucherov
Erne - Namestnikov - Callahan
Paquette - Gourde - Brown
Dumont

Hedman - Dotchin
Koekkoek - Stralman
Coburn - Sustr
Blujus

Killorn to expansion and Garrison for anything, would have probably 10mil to add a free agent or trade for a high priced player. Great top 6, 3rd line could be good if Callahan returns to form and the 4th line with Gourde could be really good. The defense is the same with Koekkoek in for Garrison, still need more offense from back there but there's money to go after that if we want.

I'm still not convinced on Dotchin. His skating needs quite a bit of work, but I do like that he plays mostly mistake free hockey. He's got no flash and very limited offensive instincts, but if he can improve his skating then he could flourish in his stay at home role.

 

[Jacko95]

I'd like Yzerman to try and get some movement in the lower half of our roster, but that ain't easy as all of them have 1 more year left. I expect LV to pick up Killorn

Palat - Stamkos - Drouin
Point- Johnson - Kucherov
Erne - Boyle (please)- Gourde
Paquette - UFA - Callahan


Hedman - Dotchin
Koekkoek - Stralman
Coburn - UFA
Witkowski

Vasi
Budaj/Greiss

This would mean to get Brown, Namestnikov and Garrison off the team. Brown and Names should not be to hard to get off if we make them cheap enough. They are still young and somebody will take a chance. Garrison on the other hand... But I could live with another year with him.

UFAs I'd like us go for:
Nick Bonino in case Boyle doesn't want to come back
Dominik Moore
Dennis Seidenberg
Trevor Daley

 

[The Macho King]

Lol at Koekkoek in the top 4.

 

[The Macho King]

I'm still not convinced on Dotchin. His skating needs quite a bit of work, but I do like that he plays mostly mistake free hockey. He's got no flash and very limited offensive instincts, but if he can improve his skating then he could flourish in his stay at home role.

Honestly, his offensive instincts have impressed me. Over a full season he would be one of our highest point-getting Dmen this season (behind Hedman and close to Stralman). I know that's more on how bad the D has been than how good Dotchin has been, but I could see him putting up 25ish points over a full season.

 

[DFC]

Lol at Koekkoek in the top 4.

I think that's more about the Stralman pairing. I'd rather see Koekkoek with Stralman than with Sustr or Coburn. Sort of like Dotchin with Hedman.

 

[Sky04]

I think that's more about the Stralman pairing. I'd rather see Koekkoek with Stralman than with Sustr or Coburn. Sort of like Dotchin with Hedman.

Except Dotchin is solid on his own, pairing him with Hedman doesn't cause Hedman any additional headaches, he's the defition of a complimentary defenseman.

Koekkoek actually requires babysitting, his partner will have to work harder to make up for some of his plays.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think that's more about the Stralman pairing. I'd rather see Koekkoek with Stralman than with Sustr or Coburn. Sort of like Dotchin with Hedman.

I think Coburn makes the most sense paired with Koekkoek, actually.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I'm less optimistic about Koekkoek being a permanent member of the NHL. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[DFC]

Except Dotchin is solid on his own, pairing him with Hedman doesn't cause Hedman any additional headaches, he's the defition of a complimentary defenseman.

Koekkoek actually requires babysitting, his partner will have to work harder to make up for some of his plays.

Exactly why that partner should be Stralman instead of a weaker defenseman.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

I'm less optimistic about Koekkoek being a permanent member of the NHL. I'll believe it when I see it.

Agreed

 

[The Macho King]

Or maybe get a Dman that doesn't require babysitting?

I mean - I get giving some sheltered deployments for young D, of course. You learn the game and aren't out there shutting down Crosby from game 1 and all that. But babysitting just neuters the effectiveness of an entire pairing for the supposed developmental benefit of one player.

And frankly, I have not seen it "work". If you have to babysit a player, they probably shouldn't be in the league. We tried babysitting Barberio, Sustr, and Nesterov at various points, as well as Koekkoek, and none of them developed into NHL-quality dmen by doing so (ducks Hose).

Dotchin was not babysat. He actually is put in a tough position. Playing 18-20 minutes a night from the jump against good (not top) competition. Yes he's playing with a good partner, and yes they mesh well, but it's not a case of Hedman babysitting Dotchin. It's a case of Dotchin complimenting Hedman.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Or maybe get a Dman that doesn't require babysitting?

I mean - I get giving some sheltered deployments for young D, of course. You learn the game and aren't out there shutting down Crosby from game 1 and all that. But babysitting just neuters the effectiveness of an entire pairing for the supposed developmental benefit of one player.

And frankly, I have not seen it "work". If you have to babysit a player, they probably shouldn't be in the league. We tried babysitting Barberio, Sustr, and Nesterov at various points, as well as Koekkoek, and none of them developed into NHL-quality dmen by doing so (ducks Hose).

Dotchin was not babysat. He actually is put in a tough position. Playing 18-20 minutes a night from the jump against good (not top) competition. Yes he's playing with a good partner, and yes they mesh well, but it's not a case of Hedman babysitting Dotchin. It's a case of Dotchin complimenting Hedman.

I completely agree. I brought it up in the Dotchin or Sustr thread. We tried many defensemen on a pairing with Hedman. It only clicked with Stralman and now Dotchin. What a mess Hedman-Sustr was for example. Dotchin's simple yet effective style perfectly fits Hedman who likes to pinch, switch sides and so on. Dotchin has good hockey IQ and will cover for Hedman when he joins the rush or crashes the net. He's also got surprising mobility (somebody mentioned his skating needs work, wut?) and an ability to put pucks out of the D zone and on the tape of his teammates, a thing that has been a struggle for most of our defensemen this season.

(ducks Hose)

Duck sauce?

 

[HoseEmDown]

Or maybe get a Dman that doesn't require babysitting?

I mean - I get giving some sheltered deployments for young D, of course. You learn the game and aren't out there shutting down Crosby from game 1 and all that. But babysitting just neuters the effectiveness of an entire pairing for the supposed developmental benefit of one player.

And frankly, I have not seen it "work". If you have to babysit a player, they probably shouldn't be in the league. We tried babysitting Barberio, Sustr, and Nesterov at various points, as well as Koekkoek, and none of them developed into NHL-quality dmen by doing so (ducks Hose).

Dotchin was not babysat. He actually is put in a tough position. Playing 18-20 minutes a night from the jump against good (not top) competition. Yes he's playing with a good partner, and yes they mesh well, but it's not a case of Hedman babysitting Dotchin. It's a case of Dotchin complimenting Hedman.

Dotchin is babysat, Hedman doesn't get the tough assignments and gets the easiest deployments. I only have Dotchin on the top pair because the defense played better when he was placed there and Stralman dropped to the 2nd pair. He's not a top 4 defender to me but works well with Hedman which some players have a knack for. The minute part is due to Hedman being out there so much, if Dotchin was legit he'd be getting PK time which is the heavy minutes.

Koekkoek is in the top 4 just to be the LD partner for Stralman. He can't be any worse than Garrison so the pairing isn't going to suffer that much, both Koekkoek and Stralman can skate so both can join the rush or get back quick to cover the other.

Coburn will be here next year so he's on the bottom pair where he works, he has the strong defensive game for it and can add a little offense at times. If we go for a top 4 RD than Sustr might be moved to make room since he doesn't work with Hedman that we'll and Dotchin is cheaper. But if he stays him and Coburn work well together, they have a few lapses but provide some offense from the bottom pair and play lots of PK.

 

[Werewolf]

On the subject of Dotchin 5 v 5:

- Of the 510 minutes Dotchin has played in the NHL, 418 of those minutes he has been paired with Hedman. (Sustr 1149 minutes, 204 minutes with Hedman)
- Top 3 forwards Dotchin has been deployed with: Kucherov (206), Palat (188), Point (173). (Sustr: Killorn 322, Drouin 309, Filp 281 minutes)

With this in context:

Sustr w/Hedman:
- GF60 2.35
Dotchin w/Hedman:
- GF60 2.01

 

[The Macho King]

What's our 5v5 offense total right now. It's ass and those numbers are devoid of context, especially considering ditching came up during the worst of our injuries.

 

[Werewolf]

Feel free to add context. I added some additional color ... feel free to add more. Dotchin has done well with the minutes he has been given...I'll agree to that. He hasn't negatively impacted his teammates performance as far as I can tell. But he has been out there with our best players an inordinate amount of time. Nesterov spent less than 15% of his total deployments with Stralman and less than that with Hedman. Koekkoek spent less than 10% of his TOI with Stralman.

Sustr's WOWY numbers with both Palat and Kucherov are superior than Dotchin with Palat and Kucherov. Lot of interesting data out there ...

 

[Rschmitz]

Sustr w/Hedman:
- GF60 2.35
Dotchin w/Hedman:
- GF60 2.01

Can you be clear of what this stat is?

 

[Werewolf]

Can you be clear of what this stat is?

Goals For while both players are on the ice (defensive pair) per 60 minutes of ice time.