GWT: 2017-18 Premier League Round 7

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,030
7,489
LA
The problem is that Klopp is Teflon despite the fact he keeps making the same mistakes. It’s a big problem. Klopp has too much cult hero status, and its clouding people from viewing things objectively.

Nope, it's a matter of practicality. Liverpool do not have the financial resources to win trophies the same way that City, United, and Chelsea can. Just about everyone in the entire world should agree with this.

The only way is to develop a team the way Tottenham have, and to use our academy to get there. This is the only way and there is no other manager we can get who has a track record of doing this. It is a five year job at least. We all knew that when Klopp was hired. So what has changed from that point? Here's what I see.

  • The team got better than I thought it would be, faster than I thought. Credit to him on that one as the first team was a hopeless case when Rodgers got the boot.
  • He turned some lost causes into good and most importantly useful players.
  • He has not been quick enough to identify all of the lost causes that need to be gotten rid of. He was properly quick with Benteke and Ibe. It can be argued that he is right about Origi as well, but only time will tell on that one.
If you want a different manager for Liverpool, you know it will be someone just like Klopp who needs that kind of time to leave his footprint on the team. They aren't good enough to just win with any manager. So considering that Klopp is bothering to oversee the academy and has the intention of bringing players forward the way most managers would really not give a shit about doing, I'd rather have Klopp.

On top of that, even at the clubs with the most money you could possibly have, one season doesn't always go the way you want it to. That being said this is still not even a quarter season.
 
Last edited:

Halladay

Registered User
Feb 27, 2009
65,105
7,804
H Town
My only problem with Klopp is the defensive issues and how they didn't even bring in a centerback to replace Lovren. There is no way they couldn't have bought someone other than VvD to partner with Matip. I really think they will be better offensively when Lallana gets back, which seems to be soon.
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,030
7,489
LA
They should have bought somebody else, but I am wondering if the problem is that they would have bought VVD in January anyway and just pissed the short-term CB off in the meantime. Of the players who did move, obviously there's players I'd rather have than Lovren, but not a single one I'd rather have than van Dijk.

So obviously if Liverpool does sign van Dijk in January then Klopp was extremely secure in his position.
 

njdevsfn95

Help JJJ, Sprite.
Jul 30, 2006
31,348
55
Crazy what Rafa has done so far with the youngest squad and small net-transfer budget.

Obviously it isn't much in terms of glory but with all the overhyped bs that goes on on Tyneside, certainly a nice start to the season.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
That’s BS.

Liverpool were ready to break the record to make Van Dijk the most expensive CB of all time. They have money. Everyone has money. They refused to get other targets. Klopp said his players were good enough and backed it up by not adding anyone else.

Liverpool certainly aren’t doing what Tottenham are doing either. Tottenham built themselves to be strong in both boxes and have filled the midfield with specialists. Tottenham has an identity Liverpool does not.

Klopp knows he is untouchable and is acting accordingly. It is a massive step backwards if they don’t finish Top 4.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
Crazy what Rafa has done so far with the youngest squad and small net-transfer budget.

Obviously it isn't much in terms of glory but with all the overhyped bs that goes on on Tyneside, certainly a nice start to the season.

Rafa took Klopp’s lunch money today. Throughly outmanaged him
 

Live in the Now

Registered User
Dec 17, 2005
53,030
7,489
LA
That’s BS.

Liverpool were ready to break the record to make Van Dijk the most expensive CB of all time. They have money. Everyone has money. They refused to get other targets. Klopp said his players were good enough and backed it up by not adding anyone else.

Yeah and they tapped him up. And the owners have only spent money one time, unless you count 42m in 2017 (it's not) as really spending money. I definitely don't. Why some other Liverpool supporters assume Liverpool has money to spend when they've spent jack all compared to other clubs for six years now really confuses me.

Liverpool certainly aren’t doing what Tottenham are doing either. Tottenham built themselves to be strong in both boxes and have filled the midfield with specialists. Tottenham has an identity Liverpool does not.

Liverpool has a different identity yes. To attack and outscore opponent via massive amounts of chances, but it is a clear identity even if you don't want to see it. Ball isn't going in right now. They are both not spending money like the others.

Klopp knows he is untouchable and is acting accordingly. It is a massive step backwards if they don’t finish Top 4.

Massive step backwards is something I will wait to actually see the ramifications of before judging. And they are a grand total of one point behind 4th. And they have a player coming in who was better last season than any of ours were.

I do know for sure that if Klopp was sent out they would spend nothing on players again like the year Rodgers came in. Sahin on loan, Borini, Joe Allen, and Assaidi. It went great. We need new owners.
 
Last edited:

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
Yeah and they tapped him up. And the owners have only spent money one time, unless you count 42m in 2017 (it's not) as really spending money. I definitely don't. Why some other Liverpool supporters assume Liverpool has money to spend when they've spent jack all compared to other clubs for six years now really confuses me.



Liverpool has a different identity yes. To attack and outscore opponent via massive amounts of chances, but it is a clear identity even if you don't want to see it. Ball isn't going in right now. They are both not spending money like the others.



Massive step backwards is something I will wait to actually see the ramifications of before judging. And they are a grand total of one point behind 4th. And they have a player coming in who was better last season than any of ours were.

I do know for sure that if Klopp was sent out they would spend nothing on players again like the year Rodgers came in. Sahin on loan, Borini, Joe Allen, and Assaidi. It went great. We need new owners.

Owners put up the money. Manager tapped up the player. Ownership paid for Keita, even though they can’t get him for another year. They have money.

Liverpool do not have an identity. I don’t know what a Liverpool player is, other than they run a lot. They have two wingers with no backups. Center forwards that aren’t good finishers. They like mobile defensemen but don’t have any. They play with a 6 but don’t have any defensive midfielders. Gets confusing doesn’t it?

Top 4 is essential for recruitment, especially if owners won’t spend. The fact is, the summer after making back into CL, the 5th, 6th and 7th place teams, (at least on paper) all got better. It’s an arms race for those spots. Liverpool did not do enough to solidify their position.

Ownership is not missing open goals, and falling asleep on defense. Only the manager is stating that what he has is good enough; repeatedly and emphatically. If the players are mentally weak and ill prepared, he should shoulder some of that blame. Instead we get the same game almost every week. Beating Arsenal doesn’t matter if you drop points to Burnley and Newcastle. The team has one win since September started and we have seen all this before under Klopp’s tenure. It’s extremely worrisome that this has happened so early into the season.
 

booyakasha

Registered User
Oct 11, 2007
11,823
5,632
Edmonton, AB
Has anybody questioned Klopp about the purchase of Oxlaide-Chamberlain yet?
I'm not trying to be funny here, but, has any pundit brought up this question to him?, a fairlty expensive bench warmer.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
Has anybody questioned Klopp about the purchase of Oxlaide-Chamberlain yet?
I'm not trying to be funny here, but, has any pundit brought up this question to him?, a fairlty expensive bench warmer.

Klopp obviously wanted the player. He was under no obligation to match the Chelsea offer, yet did anyway. He hasn’t played enough minutes yet to be judged fairly. For one, I think he should be playing much more, especially in away games. In particular he should have played against Spartak.
 

phisherman

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
3,322
1,039
The team has one win since September started and we have seen all this before under Klopp’s tenure. It’s extremely worrisome that this has happened so early into the season.

Can't imagine how they will deal with the winter schedule. Klopp is already having to rotate quite a bit and it's exposing the lack of depth Liverpool has.
 

hatterson

Registered User
Apr 12, 2010
34,953
12,226
North Tonawanda, NY
They should have bought somebody else, but I am wondering if the problem is that they would have bought VVD in January anyway and just pissed the short-term CB off in the meantime. Of the players who did move, obviously there's players I'd rather have than Lovren, but not a single one I'd rather have than van Dijk.

So obviously if Liverpool does sign van Dijk in January then Klopp was extremely secure in his position.

That seems an extremely weak excuse to not buy a CB imo. With CL football, and the various cups, they're going to need to rotate anyway. I mean, I understand they can't have the same depth at various positions as United or City, but they should have better depth at CB. They're a Matip injury away from having straight garbage at the back for half a season.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
The scary thing is I don’t even rate Matip that highly. It’s a disaster back there and the tactics do them no favors.
 

koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
17,244
16,982
Exactly. But he's at least serviceable while the other CBs are a disaster.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Matip is no better than Lovren. He makes just as many mistakes. For example if you think the Newcastle goal was onside he was the one that played him on and made the tackle that froze Mignolet and caused the goal. Our team has its scapegoats though and while people make excuses for Matip if that had been Lovren (who played really well for the most part) it would have been a roasting. Again, it's the system not the players. van Dijk isn't going to come in and stop us from shipping goals regularly as long as we play the way we do.

But yeah Robertson should be playing and so should Chambo but it is what it is. Klopp takes his time integrating players.

People are overreacting still to these results. As was pointed out above we should have won all the games we dropped minus City. Klopp can't put the ball in the net for the players and there's really no excuse to miss some of the chances we've had. He also can't stop Mane from going full Karate kid and crippling us against City (and if you look at how competitive that game was before he was sent off vs. the other games City has had you can see Liverpool's quality.

We've been unlucky so far this season. It happens. The good news is that despite our bad luck and poor officiating we're still in a strong position. Other teams are going to go through tough stretches also. We just have to hope our luck breaks before our morale does and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
36,500
10,479
It’s not “unlucky” if the same things keep happening over and over.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
It’s not “unlucky” if the same things keep happening over and over.

I'm sorry but look at the different misses from different players who have scored much easier goals in the past. It's very unlucky and it may be a confidence thing right now because it seems everyone is hitting some poor luck at the same time (minus Coutinho). It just can't be allowed to get out of hand in terms of affecting the self belief of the players.

In the past the issue was that we couldn't create hardly any opportunities despite dominating the ball against defensive teams. Now we're creating plenty but not finishing them. One last hurdle but it's coming.
 

les Habs

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
22,236
3,964
Wisconsin
It would be quite incredible if he had already scored against City, Utd, Liverpool, RM, BM, Juventus etc.

I remember how Ibrahimovic was criticised for years not performing at the "big stage". Even C. Ronaldo was considered someone who did nothing in the big finals for quite a few years. I´m not worried about that part for Kane at all. His finishing isn´t Messi/C.Ronaldo good, but it stands up to anyone else - and it doesn´t matter who he plays against. He can´t do it all himself though - a bit like the ageing C. Ronaldo.

That's all great, but I was replying to a post using this season as evidence that he's top five when it's clearly not.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I read that only Messi has scored more goals in the top 5 leagues in 2017 than Kane. Including goals and/or assists against Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Chelsea and United.
 

Havre

Registered User
Jul 24, 2011
8,459
1,733
I read that only Messi has scored more goals in the top 5 leagues in 2017 than Kane. Including goals and/or assists against Dortmund, City, Arsenal, Chelsea and United.

True. The problem is that Kane plays against all these bad teams (apparently).
 

Epictetus

YNWA
Jan 2, 2010
16,273
377
Ontario
Need to get way more squad rotation going. Mane and Salah don't need to be starting every game. I'd like to see some kind of diamond at some point with Firmino and Sturridge at the top. There is enough versatility and depth (particularly when Lallana returns) to not be running a 4-3-3 every single game.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
No one ever said Liverpool were the best but Arsenal are not making top 4. Watch the two teams play and it's night and day. Results will come. I'm not worried though it is frustrating to go through the process at the end of the season it'll all shake out.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->