Prospect Info: 2017-18 Flyers Prospects - Top 30 SKATERS, Final Poll Results

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
To me putting the two firsts automatically up that high before they have proven themselves is silly. Neither is top ten pick this year they are about where Rubsov was picked ( well the second first is ) and he does not make it any where near that high. Nak Vorobyev Allison Laycznski Frost Ratcliffe have all proven them selves so move up higher in my rankings. Hart is in the Goalie Rankings so not on here but is clear number one there.
 

Stizzle

Registered User
Feb 3, 2012
13,209
23,192
Hart would be the clear cut top prospect right now.

I just don't agree. Kid goalies are just too speculative and fickle. Give me Phil Myers all day, everyday. I realize he's been dinged up a bunch, but players with his profile are impossible to find.

Nothing against Hart. Maybe he turns out to be the savior and obviously the mainstream hype is on steroids.

I just see Myers and think he pretty much has every trait you look for and fills a need that is impossible to find. NHL teams have shown to be so needy and desperate for RHD time and time again. I'm not being fooled just because Pierre doesn't shill him on TV and the public doesn't know him because he wasn't drafted.

Maybe I'm wrong. It wouldn't the 1st time.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,746
86,024
Nova Scotia
To me putting the two firsts automatically up that high before they have proven themselves is silly. Neither is top ten pick this year they are about where Rubsov was picked ( well the second first is ) and he does not make it any where near that high. Nak Vorobyev Allison Laycznski Frost Ratcliffe have all proven them selves so move up higher in my rankings. Hart is in the Goalie Rankings so not on here but is clear number one there.
But go look at last year's rankings, obviously at that time, people felt Rubstov WAS a top 5 prospect of ours. Obviously things changed this year with him having a bad year.

Do Vorobyev, NAK, etc... Have top 14 value if we wanted to trade them right now for a pick? No. Frost does. The others don't. Now at 19, you start getting into some debate...maybe....depends who is still there to be picked.
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
But go look at last year's rankings, obviously at that time, people felt Rubstov WAS a top 5 prospect of ours. Obviously things changed this year with him having a bad year.

Do Vorobyev, NAK, etc... Have top 14 value if we wanted to trade them right now for a pick? No. Frost does. The others don't. Now at 19, you start getting into some debate...maybe....depends who is still there to be picked.
Nope they do not have the same trade value but that's not what we are discussing and as far as Rubsov this is exactually just what i'm talking about. People ranking him to high before he has proved himself, the way to look at this is if you had that draft today again today would he go as high , answer no . Laberge , Bellows Tuffty etc would also fall but when you first get a new toy you always think it's the best toy in the world. Just the way it is,same when you make a trade at the time you think it's great but down the road you might think different .
I want picks to preform after they are drafted before i anoint them gods
 
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Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,746
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Nova Scotia
Nope they do not have the same trade value but that's not what we are discussing and as far as Rubsov this is exactually just what i'm talking about. People ranking him to high before he has proved himself, the way to look at this is if you had that draft today again today would he go as high , answer no . Laberge , Bellows Tuffty etc would also fall but when you first get a new toy you always think it's the best toy in the world. Just the way it is,same when you make a trade at the time you think it's great but down the road you might think different .
I want picks to preform after they are drafted before i anoint them gods
Ok...so where do cut if off and place them? Behind guys like Kase who is a 3 time WJC player? That seems pretty proven. Or after Hogberg who is a SHL player and WJC player?

Point is, unless you put that after all the prospects who did will and ahead of only those who didn't, then it doesn't make sense.

And for every Rubstov, there is a Frost. So imagine putting him as our like 20th best prospect last year. It would have been foolish.
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
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Wait a second here i said i would not put them that high like 3 and 4 i did not say i would put them 19 - 20 . You were stating you would put them right behind Frost and Myers handing them the keys to the car before you had seen them drive a little on the highway in traffic. Guy like Frost was drafted later in the first but proved he is quite a good driver so up the rankings he goes. If you are wondering where i would probably put them look where Frost was put last year and it would also depend on who we took as well, but that's just me and other people would do something different and that's just fine.
As far as your last comment absolutely for every Rubsov Laberge there is an Hart Allison Layczynski
I just like tempering my expectations and am happy if they out preform and less disappointed if they under preform
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,746
86,024
Nova Scotia
Wait a second here i said i would not put them that high like 3 and 4 i did not say i would put them 19 - 20 . You were stating you would put them right behind Frost and Myers handing them the keys to the car before you had seen them drive a little on the highway in traffic. Guy like Frost was drafted later in the first but proved he is quite a good driver so up the rankings he goes. If you are wondering where i would probably put them look where Frost was put last year and it would also depend on who we took as well, but that's just me and other people would do something different and that's just fine.
As far as your last comment absolutely for every Rubsov Laberge there is an Hart Allison Layczynski
I just like tempering my expectations and am happy if they out preform and less disappointed if they under preform
Ok...so you would put them where Frost was...around #7. But we also had the #2 pick last year to jump in there which is not the norm....so top 6 is where Frost would have been. Putting 2 guys drafted at 14 and 19 in the top 5 is no big difference considering how much higher they are being drafted compared to Frost IMO.
 

Hurricane28

Angry Flyers STH/Weather Guy
Aug 22, 2012
9,217
9,189
South Jersey
Going to be interesting to see what the rankings are this summer.

right now my top 5/6 would be:

1. Myers
2. Frost
3. Hart
4. Morin
5. Ratcliffe/Allison
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Skaters:

1. Frost
2. Myers (love him but two injury filled seasons moves him down)
3. Ratcliffe (the "project" just put up 41 goals)
4. Laczynski
5. Allison
6. #14
7. NAK
8. Morin (docked for chronic injury)
9. Lycksell (dominated SuperElite, held his own in SHL at 18)
10. Hogberg (solid second SHL capped by increased minutes in playoffs on a top team)
11. #19
12. Strome (skating is still a ???, but the rest of the package is close to elite)
13. Vorobyev (dinged a bit, didn't make as much progress as you'd hope)
14. Twarynski (took a big step up in PD2, showed good scoring touch for bottom six physical forward)
15. Sushko (solid season, big WJC, good playoff performance)
16. Cates (almost PPG after a slow start in USHL at 18)
17. Rubtsov (odd year makes it hard to gauge his progress, but PD2 shouldn't be treading water)
18. Laberge (played better the second half after a trade and carried that into PO, maybe finally past his bell ringing?)
19. Friedman (started slow but finished strong, still only 22)
20. Bardreau (finally stayed healthy and finished strong)
21. Bunnaman (no regular season improvement PD2, but good playoff, maybe just needs to move to LW?)
22. Kase (turned 21 in January, had a good but not great SHL season)
23. Bernhardt (solid SHL season at the ripe old age of 20 in December)
24. MV (good but not great AHL season, at 25 he should dominate younger players)
25. #50
25. Kalynuk (overage at 20, but solid freshman season)

Goalies:
1. Hart
2. Sandstrom
3. Lyon (if he keeps up his playoff performance, he might be ready to backup at the NHL level)
4. Ustimenko
5. Stolarz

Given we graduated Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom and Hagg from last year's list, that's pretty awesome!
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,746
86,024
Nova Scotia
^^^^ and Leier too. :naughty:

Anyone know if Lindblom is considered a rookie next year?

The cut off says 25 games. He played 23, but then 4 playoff. Not sure if the playoff games count or not.
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
Ok...so you would put them where Frost was...around #7. But we also had the #2 pick last year to jump in there which is not the norm....so top 6 is where Frost would have been. Putting 2 guys drafted at 14 and 19 in the top 5 is no big difference considering how much higher they are being drafted compared to Frost IMO.
If you go to where they give points for value of draft position , outside the top ten it slow's ; number 15 pick is not point valued a whole pile higher than 25 . It is higher but value slows substancially outside the top ten.
Also we have had some of our prospects we have already preform much better than we thought or had hoped for so they will get a boost from me. NAK last year vs this year gets boost
 

wasup

Registered User
Mar 21, 2018
2,443
2,283
Skaters:

1. Frost
2. Myers (love him but two injury filled seasons moves him down)
3. Ratcliffe (the "project" just put up 41 goals)
4. Laczynski
5. Allison
6. #14
7. NAK
8. Morin (docked for chronic injury)
9. Lycksell (dominated SuperElite, held his own in SHL at 18)
10. Hogberg (solid second SHL capped by increased minutes in playoffs on a top team)
11. #19
12. Strome (skating is still a ???, but the rest of the package is close to elite)
13. Vorobyev (dinged a bit, didn't make as much progress as you'd hope)
14. Twarynski (took a big step up in PD2, showed good scoring touch for bottom six physical forward)
15. Sushko (solid season, big WJC, good playoff performance)
16. Cates (almost PPG after a slow start in USHL at 18)
17. Rubtsov (odd year makes it hard to gauge his progress, but PD2 shouldn't be treading water)
18. Laberge (played better the second half after a trade and carried that into PO, maybe finally past his bell ringing?)
19. Friedman (started slow but finished strong, still only 22)
20. Bardreau (finally stayed healthy and finished strong)
21. Bunnaman (no regular season improvement PD2, but good playoff, maybe just needs to move to LW?)
22. Kase (turned 21 in January, had a good but not great SHL season)
23. Bernhardt (solid SHL season at the ripe old age of 20 in December)
24. MV (good but not great AHL season, at 25 he should dominate younger players)
25. #50
25. Kalynuk (overage at 20, but solid freshman season)

Goalies:
1. Hart
2. Sandstrom
3. Lyon (if he keeps up his playoff performance, he might be ready to backup at the NHL level)
4. Ustimenko
5. Stolarz

Given we graduated Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom and Hagg from last year's list, that's pretty awesome!
I would switch 3 4 5 around a bit and a couple other's a little but this would look very similar to what i would have. I can't believe i agree with Deadhead . omg
 

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
Frost
Hart
Myers

Would be my top three right now. I will say that Vorobyev would not be far from my top three.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
Why/how the **** is German ranked above Frost?

Because this is an almost year old prospect poll.

At the time Rubtsov was a 20-something 1st round pick coming off a very good performance in the Q in his D+1 year.

At the time Frost was a 20-something 1st round pick with a sub point/game season in the OHL in his D year. Hell, at the time a not small # of people were beside themselves we "reached" on Frost.

It's not like they weren't ranked neck and neck. It's a reminder about what can happen in a year.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Rubtsov is a faller, but also a lot of prospects were "risers," Cates is a good example, when he was drafted, the general consensus was "who?", but a solid USHL season makes him a real prospect. Or Lycksell, what the ????, but when you can hold your own in the SHL at 18, you're probably pretty good.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,418
10,399
Skaters:

1. Frost
2. Myers (love him but two injury filled seasons moves him down)
3. Ratcliffe (the "project" just put up 41 goals)
4. Laczynski
5. Allison
6. #14
7. NAK
8. Morin (docked for chronic injury)
9. Lycksell (dominated SuperElite, held his own in SHL at 18)
10. Hogberg (solid second SHL capped by increased minutes in playoffs on a top team)
11. #19
12. Strome (skating is still a ???, but the rest of the package is close to elite)
13. Vorobyev (dinged a bit, didn't make as much progress as you'd hope)
14. Twarynski (took a big step up in PD2, showed good scoring touch for bottom six physical forward)
15. Sushko (solid season, big WJC, good playoff performance)
16. Cates (almost PPG after a slow start in USHL at 18)
17. Rubtsov (odd year makes it hard to gauge his progress, but PD2 shouldn't be treading water)
18. Laberge (played better the second half after a trade and carried that into PO, maybe finally past his bell ringing?)
19. Friedman (started slow but finished strong, still only 22)
20. Bardreau (finally stayed healthy and finished strong)
21. Bunnaman (no regular season improvement PD2, but good playoff, maybe just needs to move to LW?)
22. Kase (turned 21 in January, had a good but not great SHL season)
23. Bernhardt (solid SHL season at the ripe old age of 20 in December)
24. MV (good but not great AHL season, at 25 he should dominate younger players)
25. #50
25. Kalynuk (overage at 20, but solid freshman season)

Goalies:
1. Hart
2. Sandstrom
3. Lyon (if he keeps up his playoff performance, he might be ready to backup at the NHL level)
4. Ustimenko
5. Stolarz

Given we graduated Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom and Hagg from last year's list, that's pretty awesome!

Twarynski is way too high for a guy with an extremely limited ceiling.

Hogberg/Lycksell/Morin/NAK shouldn't be above the 19th pick.
 
Last edited:

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Not sure how limited Twarynski is, he was considered your basic bottom six guy, a solid PF who could play a two way game, was a good skater with good size, solid defensively, but a bit limited offensively. High motor, 4th line guy.

Then he puts up 45 goals in his PD2 season.
Doesn't make him a top six prospect, does make him a viable 3rd line prospect.

Maybe Hextall knew something when he used a #82 pick on him?

Hogberg was starting for the SHL champions at 18.
Lycksell was also starting and producing in the SHL at 18.
As Appleyard will tell you, that's impressive at that age, in a men's league.

Morin was a reach at #12, but is 4 years ahead of #19 in development.

NAK was a 2nd rd pick who looks like a solid bottom six foward with upside, if the #19 turns out as well, that'll be fine, not every pick at that point in the draft will be a TK or Frost, some turn out to be Laughton or Rubtsov.
 

FlyTimmo

pit <3
Jul 10, 2013
12,418
10,399
Not sure how limited Twarynski is, he was considered your basic bottom six guy, a solid PF who could play a two way game, was a good skater with good size, solid defensively, but a bit limited offensively. High motor, 4th line guy.

Then he puts up 45 goals in his PD2 season.
Doesn't make him a top six prospect, does make him a viable 3rd line prospect.

Maybe Hextall knew something when he used a #82 pick on him?

Hogberg was starting for the SHL champions at 18.
Lycksell was also starting and producing in the SHL at 18.
As Appleyard will tell you, that's impressive at that age, in a men's league.

Morin was a reach at #12, but is 4 years ahead of #19 in development.

NAK was a 2nd rd pick who looks like a solid bottom six foward with upside, if the #19 turns out as well, that'll be fine, not every pick at that point in the draft will be a TK or Frost, some turn out to be Laughton or Rubtsov.

All fair points, but... that same logic should apply to the 14th pick as well.

The 14th and 19th pick are within the same tier of the draft. I don't think it would be crazy for us to like the 19th pick more than the 14th.
 

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