Proposal: 2016 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part IV

[Stylizer1]

Also, if we're talking about schemes involving actual decent assets like first round picks, it makes more sense just to cut out the middle man and give Vegas those assets to take a more ideal player.

This won't be a situation like past drafts where teams can get away with trading a late pick, but if we give Vegas a 1st round pick to select the most inconsequential player possible, they probably do it.

I really think we'll see Lazar taken the more I think about it. It depends on how high Dorion is on him compared to Murray who seemed to love Lazar. Methot is a veteran who wants to be in Ottawa and won't want to be in Vegas, unless the crop of defense available isn't great, I think that if Lazar is available,tgat might be enough to sway them to take a 17th overall pick from a few years ago who is a hard worker/possible future leader type. Maybe Ottawa ends up having to give them a sweetener.

I just think that if Methot makes it known how badly he wants to stay in his home town and how disappointed he'd be to get selected, because Ottawa will possibly have Lazar exposed, Vegas won't see Methot as being worth the headache. GMs have to consider the room/chemistry as well as team need and overall value of each pick.

Not sure Methot would be a problem in the Vegas locker room. If Ottawa doesn't protect him then he knows what he can expect.

 

[operasen]

I'd expect a deal of some kind either not to take Methot or to trade him back if they do. They will lose someone that HFB will not like (Lazar, Smith?) either way.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Not sure Methot would be a problem in the Vegas locker room. If Ottawa doesn't protect him then he knows what he can expect.

I'm not suggesting that he is a bad locker room guy. Just that he took a discount in both dollar and term to stay in his home town. If it is known that he'd be upset with being picked, I don't think the gap in value (to Vegas, not Ottawa) is great enough that they'd risk taking a possibly disgruntled veteran over Lazar who is a mid 1st round prospect from a recent draft that is touted to be a great character guy.

I'm not saying that every player can just declare they don't want to go to Vegas and they won't get picked. But in this scenario, Ottawa has a young first rounder unprotected, and Methot recently took a discount to stay in his home town.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not suggesting that he is a bad locker room guy. Just that he took a discount in both dollar and term to stay in his home town. If it is known that he'd be upset with being picked, I don't think the gap in value (to Vegas, not Ottawa) is great enough that they'd risk taking a possibly disgruntled veteran over Lazar who is a mid 1st round prospect from a recent draft that is touted to be a great character guy.

I'm not saying that every player can just declare they don't want to go to Vegas and they won't get picked. But in this scenario, Ottawa has a young first rounder unprotected, and Methot recently took a discount to stay in his home town.

I think for LV to go that route (taking Lazar over Methot, even if he's a little unhappy about it) Lazar would have to make significant progression this season. If he puts up 35+ pts from the 3rd line, maybe if they've already got a bunch of d they like. But if he has another ~20 pts season, I just don't see it happening.

 

[ekarlsson65]

Ugh, Brendan Smith isn't close to Methot.

Smith as a Sen getting Methot's salary ($5mil) makes me slightly ill. He's a fine 3rd pairing guy who can slide into your top-4 in a pinch, don't get me wrong, but Methot >>>>>> Smith.

I'm kind of puzzled that you'd call Quincey and Russel "garbage", but then Brendan Smith is ok? I mean, I don't think Quincey or Russel are amazing or anything, but Smith is WAY closer to Quincey & Russell's level than he is to Methot.

Mmmmm, I think Brendan Smith is a lot more underrated than those 2...Russell gets wayyyyy too much hype. No he's no Methot, but if Methot gets snagged, the Sens would need a decent replacement

 

[ekarlsson65]

Just assuming without actually watching I would guess. Quincy played more than Smith on the Wings for a reason.

OH he had more TOI? well he must be better!!

 

[BondraTime]

OH he had more TOI? well he must be better!!

Usually a pretty good metric to see who is trusted more, Detroits D is a complete disaster though.

Neither guy is very good, Smith has the "Detroit development" label and 1st round pick shine to help him. He wouldn't be a guy I'd target for sure, but would be fine with him on the bottom pair.

 

[ekarlsson65]

just assuming without actually watching i would guess. Quincy played more than smith on the wings for a reason.

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Sure it does not take into account QoC, but I mean ideally, if we lost Methot, he's an adequate replacement until Chabot is ready, no?

 

[BondraTime]

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Hero charts, great. Bring up Wiercioch's.

There is a reason the Wings are going to let Smith walk as a UFA.

 

[BondraTime]

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What game are you watching exactly?

What are you watching in that you agree with the highest probability leaning towards Smith being a top pairing D?

 

[ekarlsson65]

What are you watching in that you agree with the highest probability leaning towards Smith being a top pairing D?

I'm not stating he is a top pairing D, i'm looking at UFA defenseman in 2017, there are not a lot of options. If Methot gets chosen, who is OTT replacing him with exactly?? Borowiecki???

 

[ekarlsson65]

Hero charts, great. Bring up Wiercioch's.

There is a reason the Wings are going to let Smith walk as a UFA.

What's the reason they gave Abdelkader and Nielsen 20 year contracts? What was the reason they gave Dekeyser 5 million a season?

 

[BondraTime]

I'm not stating he is a top pairing D, i'm looking at UFA defenseman in 2017, there are not a lot of options. If Methot gets chosen, who is OTT replacing him with exactly?? Borowiecki???

Then why are you using Hero charts to try and debate between them? Posting them as proof to your side would mean you are using them for your argument.

Smith will be a UFA after the expansion draft, he isn't being protected for sure and the Wings are going to part ways. May see him traded for a late pick at the deadline.

The Sens would have a full summer to find someone to replace Methot, if we are putting Smith in our top 4 we are taking a HUGE step back.

 

[BondraTime]

What's the reason they gave Abdelkader and Nielsen 20 year contracts? What was the reason they gave Dekeyser 5 million a season?

Because Dekeyser is a fantastic top 4 D, whom we'd love to have here at 5 million a season? Because that's what UFA's like Neilson get every year? 4.25 is the going rate, if not somewhat smaller, than what guys like Abdelkader get on the market. It is an absurdly long contract for sure.

 

[ekarlsson65]

Because Dekeyser is a fantastic top 4 D, whom we'd love to have here at 5 million a season? Because that's what UFA's like Neilson get every year? 4.25 is the going rate, if not somewhat smaller, than what guys like Abdelkader get on the market. It is an absurdly long contract for sure.

1) Dekeyser is not a fantastic top 4 D, he's an OK 2nd pair Dman getting overpaid
2) So because UFA's such as Nielsen get overpaid, DET should just pay the guy the $ he wants w/ term?
3) DET has 66 million tied up already to next season, and their RFA's are: Tatar, AA, Jurco, and Pulkkinen,....how's that going to work out?

4) What replacement do you suggest OTT makes a push for that will cost them minimal assets if they were to lose Methot? Someone in their top 4 and please do not say Russell or Quincey

Edit** I'll even throw a bone here, if their respective teams can't protect them, Brodin or Depres (if ANA picks Fowler over him)?

 

[Uchiha]

Smith doesn't have the luxury of having the best defenceman in the world as his partner. He's better than Quincey and Russel - there's no question about that, but let's not act like Methot is any good without EK. His play is regressing and he's injury prone. Getting his 5M off the books in an expansion draft is great.

Get Smith on this team asap. He's our best option as he can play on all pairings.

 

[BondraTime]

1) Dekeyser is not a fantastic top 4 D, he's an OK 2nd pair Dman getting overpaid
2) So because UFA's such as Nielsen get overpaid, DET should just pay the guy the $ he wants w/ term?
3) DET has 66 million tied up already to next season, and their RFA's are: Tatar, AA, Jurco, and Pulkkinen,....how's that going to work out?

4) What replacement do you suggest OTT makes a push for that won't cost them assets if they were to lose Methot? Someone in their top 4 and please do not say Russell or Quincey

Why would I want either guy in the top 4? I've been adamant I want none of them, but would be "fine" with them on the bottom pair.

You don't understand the market if you think 5 million for DD is overpayment, that's what players of DD's caliber get paid. AA is the only guy they care about, the other two (Pulk/Jurco) are the guys Holland was offering to get rid of Datsyuk's contract, they aren't being resigned. Tatar likely gets a small raise. Svechnikov and Mantha are on the team making rookie money and depending on Vanek, they could free up his spot, or have to pay more to keep him.

If I had my choice of getting a guy to replace Methot, I'd look at a guy like Kulikov if we have to go UFA route (I highly doubt he makes it).

 

[BondraTime]

Smith doesn't have the luxury of having the best defenceman in the world as his partner. He's better than Quincey and Russel - there's no question about that, but let's not act like Methot is any good without EK. His play is regressing and he's injury prone. Getting his 5M off the books in an expansion draft is great.

Get Smith on this team asap. He's our best option as he can play on all pairings.

Yet he was a healthy scratch on a team with Quincy/Ericsson/Marchenko/Kindl on the ice at the same time

 

[Uchiha]

Yet he was a healthy scratch on a team with Quincy/Ericsson/Marchenko on the ice at the same time

And Borowiecki was on our 1st line.

 

[BondraTime]

And Borowiecki was on our 1st line.

Terrible mistake, thankfully it lasted less than a game early in the season, and never happened again.

Smith was scratched early, down the stretch, and again in the playoffs.

 

[Uchiha]

Terrible mistake, thankfully it lasted less than a game early in the season, and never happened again.

Smith was scratched early, down the stretch, and again in the playoffs.

Funny, once Smith was brought in they limited shots against and won a game! But was it a coincidence? I think not..

 

[Langdon Alger]

And Borowiecki was on our 1st line.

For half of the season according to some people around here.

 

[BondraTime]

Funny, once Smith was brought in they limited shots against and won a game! But was it a coincidence? I think not..

I know, Smith really is THAT GOOD! The Wings must be crazy to let a guy with that type of impact walk for free!

 

[Uchiha]

I know, Smith really is THAT GOOD! The Wings must be crazy to let a guy with that type of impact walk for free!

...Uh, yeah, they let Quincey walk who most wanted on here.

 

[Hutz]

I know, Smith really is THAT GOOD! The Wings must be crazy to let a guy with that type of impact walk for free!

Am I missing something here? They didn't let him walk, did they? He's still there, no?