Transfer: 2016 Summer Transfer Window

[BSHH]

Well, damn, left the house with DM's report of a Bayern interest in Sandro Wagner, got back finding out about done deals for Hummels and Renato Sanches, the latter out of absolutely nowhere. Not too shabby. Don't know much about Renato Sanches, though, other than him being highly touted.


Yeah, I initially thought they'd have to mean bonuses to put it towards €45M total, but it seems it's really up to €45M in bonuses. That's pretty crazy - that's more bonuses than our transfer record fee thus far. I have to assume that's like €5M per CL win (over five years = €25M max) and another €5M for each year he finishes top-5 in Ballon d'Or voting or something insane like that.

Please trust an old fellow: Signing the best players of previous European Cup opponents was standard procedure back in the day. It was the stupid transfer companion of getting a player after three good games at a World Cup or continental tournament, which is still common.

That's not to say Sanches was such a stupid transfer. The full bonus payments are said to depend on some lofty expectations, but a fee of approximately € 60m does not seem outlandish for such a young and good player for one of the most important positions today. If Thiago prefers to follow his mentor Guardiola once again, Munich will recoup a part of that investment ths summer.

On the other hand, signing Hummels for € 35m, who could have moved for free next year, seems less prudent. In general, he is an upgrade over Martinez as CB and might be the last piece for Munich. However, I am still rather wary about players who are set to play a bulk of matches in a summer tournament (like Hummels in France), since it often takes a toll of them with regard to the forthcoming season. Of course I acknowlegde that this transfer between Munich and their seemingly rejuvenated rival Dortmund is not solely about economic questions. But may I ask for how much Benatia will return to Rome? I'd guess for less than half the fee Munich paid.

Picking up Wagner might be clever. While he is a very limited player, Wagner will accept his role as sole backup and should get quite a lot scoring chances when he plays. I consider it necessary to reduce Lewandowski's workload in oder to keep him fresh, but if I were to decide for Munich, I'd choose a better player who would be more helpful in case of an injury. It's shame Dzeko has completely fallen of a cliff, he would have been ideal.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Vipers31]

Wouldn't play him in the final if I managed Dortmund.

Would you have before today, though? If the answer is different, I think that makes little sense.

Please trust an old fellow: Signing the best players of previous European Cup opponents was standard procedure back in the day.

Yeah, I know that procedure.

That's not to say Sanches was such a stupid transfer. The full bonus payments are said to depend on some lofty expectations, but a fee of approximately € 60m does not seem outlandish for such a young and good player for one of the most important positions today.

Yeah, probably. If he ends up being good enough to bump the total fee to €60M+, then he'll be one of the world's best players by the time he's 22 years. And you don't really get the world's best for €60M now, and who knows what the going rate for those will be in four years. So I'm okay with the price structure. €35M is still a risk if he flops, but I've got to trust Reschke on this, again.

If Thiago prefers to follow his mentor Guardiola once again, Munich will recoup a part of that investment ths summer.

I seriously hope that's not it. He has been a bit disappointing this season, but I want to see him next year. I can't imagine he's set on following Pep, otherwise he would not have signed his extension back in December when he knew Pep leaving would be a real possibility. Rode seems certain to leave, and Götze obviously is now more likely than ever. Alonso also should and probably will be counted on less and less given his age.

On the other hand, signing Hummels for € 35m, who could have moved for free next year, seems less prudent. In general, he is an upgrade over Martinez as CB and might be the last piece for Munich. However, I am still rather wary about players who are set to play a bulk of matches in a summer tournament (like Hummels in France), since it often takes a toll of them with regard to the forthcoming season. Of course I acknowlegde that this transfer between Munich and their seemingly rejuvenated rival Dortmund is not solely about economic questions. But may I ask for how much Benatia will return to Rome? I'd guess for less than half the fee Munich paid.

Yeah, the Euros will have an impact, for sure. No idea about Benatia. I guess maybe €15M + €5M in bonuses? Definitely will be a fair bit of a loss for his services over his time here, that didn't really do that much. (On top of his salary, obviously.) Definitely Reschke's least impressive move so far.

Picking up Wagner might be clever. While he is a very limited player, Wagner will accept his role as sole backup and should get quite a lot scoring chances when he plays. I consider it necessary to reduce Lewandowski's workload in oder to keep him fresh, but if I were to decide for Munich, I'd choose a better player who would be more helpful in case of an injury. It's shame Dzeko has completely fallen of a cliff, he would have been ideal.

I'd be okay with a guy like Dzeko. But as you said, Wagner is just too limited. I'm certain there are guys with more quality out there that would also be okay with a backup role, if the money is right.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Crying rn. **** Cathy.

I'm wary of Sanches and like others was surprised by this transfer. Did Ancelotti ask for him? It seems weird in my head. Kimmich seems like a vastly superior prospect, and they paid a fraction for him of what they could end up paying for Sanches.

Dortmund are supposedly putting in a bid on Gabigol.

 

[Savi]

Do they still count on Hojbjerg as well?

 

[cgf]

Well BVB didn't get enough for Hummels, but hopefully they got enough to steal Tah from Bayer.

Do they still count on Hojbjerg as well?

Doubtful. He's been really underwhelming on loan at Schalke, where he's clearly behind Goretzka, Geis & Meyer for the midfield spots.

 

[Vipers31]

Do they still count on Hojbjerg as well?

Good question. Hasn't been convincing on loan. IIRC, the loan goes for another year, so a bit more time to figure out where he stands. But the last one year has definitely made me lower my expectations for him.

 

[JoemAvs]

Crying rn. **** Cathy.

I'm wary of Sanches and like others was surprised by this transfer. Did Ancelotti ask for him? It seems weird in my head. Kimmich seems like a vastly superior prospect, and they paid a fraction for him of what they could end up paying for Sanches.

Dortmund are supposedly putting in a bid on Gabigol.

Aside from Kimmich I would cosign that statement. Don't think he is close to the talent level of Sanches. Kimmich has been impressive but IMO he is getting a bit overrated right now.


I am also very wary of spending so much money on a guy like Sanches. Hope that Reschke is right on him.


Also dislike the Hummels business. Also the price IMO is too steep for a soon to be 28 year old guy with 1 year left.

 

[cgf]

You've got which one of Kimmich and Sanches is over-rated backwards there Joe.

 

[JoemAvs]

You've got which one of Kimmich and Sanches is over-rated backwards there Joe.

Why?

I think both of them are pretty overrated right now.

Kimmich had a very impressive first season.

But he has a long way to go before I would consider him starter material for our midfield.

Same goes for Sanches who has the better tools but seems to be lacking in other aspects.

Hope Carlo can coach them up.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Aside from Kimmich I would cosign that statement. Don't think he is close to the talent level of Sanches. Kimmich has been impressive but IMO he is getting a bit overrated right now.

Nah. Sanches is badly overrated for his physical tools but Kimmich is better or far better in almost every footballing category.

Why?

I think both of them are pretty overrated right now.

Kimmich had a very impressive first season.

But he has a long way to go before I would consider him starter material for our midfield.

Same goes for Sanches who has the better tools but seems to be lacking in other aspects.

Hope Carlo can coach them up.

Kimmich doesn't have that far to go. Sanches doesn't have the better tools either.

 

[Vipers31]

Nah. Sanches is badly overrated for his physical tools but Kimmich is better or far better in almost every footballing category.



Kimmich doesn't have that far to go. Sanches doesn't have the better tools either.

Judging by videos and the couple games against Benfica, I think Sanches is quicker and more gifted technically. The latter is a bit tougher to call, because Kimmich plays so understated and his technical ability rarely shows. Sanches seems to incorporate a bit more flash here and there.

Any way one cuts it, Kimmich for a measly €6M was fun business. If Renato pays back on his investment in a remotely similar manner - holy Jesus.

 

[Halladay]

Seems like Bayern'so midfield is overcrowded now.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Judging by videos and the couple games against Benfica, I think Sanches is quicker and more gifted technically. The latter is a bit tougher to call, because Kimmich plays so understated and his technical ability rarely shows. Sanches seems to incorporate a bit more flash here and there.

Any way one cuts it, Kimmich for a measly €6M was fun business. If Renato pays back on his investment in a remotely similar manner - holy Jesus.

I don't think Sanches is more gifted technically. Kimmich is a better passer and more pressing resistant - those are the main technical abilities I expect of a central or defensive midfielder. You're right that he doesn't show it very often because he has kept the game simple in his first year, but he's better at dribbling in tight spaces to maintain the ball too:



That's to go along with the intelligence edge that he has over Sanches and the vast majority of players of any age. Far better sense of his own team's and the opponent's pressing. More disciplined and better timing in his defensive challenges.

Seems like Bayern'so midfield is overcrowded now.

It always is.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Toprak is nice but Varane or Koulibaly hnngggg.

 

[Vipers31]

I don't think Sanches is more gifted technically. Kimmich is a better passer and more pressing resistant - those are the main technical abilities I expect of a central or defensive midfielder. You're right that he doesn't show it very often because he has kept the game simple in his first year, but he's better at dribbling in tight spaces to maintain the ball too:

That's to go along with the intelligence edge that he has over Sanches and the vast majority of players of any age. Far better sense of his own team's and the opponent's pressing. More disciplined and better timing in his defensive challenges.

Yeah, that's fair mostly, if you consider passing a part of technical ability, then that's certainly putting him ahead. Renato, from what I heard is more raw in that regard. Still not sure about the driggling in tight spaces. Not that it matters really all that much given that Kimmich plays a way to not have to get into that. Should be fun to see them alongside each other sooner rather than later, unless you're the opposing CM/AM.

 

[Just Win]

Hummels was expected but that is some crazy money for Sanches.

And since Höjbjerg was mentioned earlier, his loan was this season only. I expect him to be loaned out again next season, maybe to Augsburg again.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Bayern's midfield will clear up, I don't think its that crowded.

Alaba, Lahm and Martinez don't play much CM anymore. Alaba's mostly a LB or CB, Martinez is mostly a CB and Lahm is mostly a RB. They'll probably continue to play CM in a pinch, but not as regulars at that position.

I suspect Thiago will leave. The signing of Renato Sanches puts his position in the most jeopardy, but I thought he'd leave anyway with him being a Pep signing at Bayern. Maybe he'll follow Pep to Man City. Rode could also leave, or maybe he just stays for the money, but I don't think this signing changes his role much. He still may want to leave though.

Xabi Alonso is only signed for one more season, at which point I assume they'll let him go. Until then, he'll probably remain a starter with Kimmich backing him up. Kimmich is versatile enough to play CB, so they'll find enough minutes for him. I think Renato Sanches will back up Vidal next season. They also have Alaba, Lahm and Martinez who can all play CM in a pinch, and then maybe Rode stays, who would be another option.

 

[Vipers31]

I suspect Thiago will leave. The signing of Renato Sanches puts his position in the most jeopardy, but I thought he'd leave anyway with him being a Pep signing at Bayern. Maybe he'll follow Pep to Man City.

I can't really see it. I mean, he just extended his contract for three years in December. If he felt his fate was so tied to Pep, he would have just waited one month for Pep's decision.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I can't really see it. I mean, he just extended his contract for three years in December. If he felt his fate was so tied to Pep, he would have just waited one month for Pep's decision.

So why did they sign Renato Sanches then? Is he going out of loan? Or is Renato Sanches going to sit in the reserves next season after you signed him for 80 million counting add-ons?

 

[Jeffrey]

Dembele to Dortmund is almost done.

 

[Vipers31]

So why did they sign Renato Sanches then? Is he going out of loan? Or is Renato Sanches going to sit in the reserves next season after you signed him for 80 million counting add-ons?

Rode is likely to leave. Götze will probably leave. Xabi will play less. Thiago is frequently injured. Thiago staying isn't forcing Sanches to reserves. No need to paint this so black and white.

And counting add-ons is idiotic, at this point. We're paying €35M. The addons we know of are FIFA Player of the Year nominations and the likes. Maybe we'll pay another €15M in two years, and another €15M in four, but he's a €35M transfer now, and he's more likely to stay a €35M transfer than to ever become an €80M transfer.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

In reference to mint asking if Hummels plays in the Pokal Final, I wouldn't be surprised if he was conveniently injured like I recall Götze being for the 2013 Champion's League Final

 

[Halladay]

In reference to mint asking if Hummels plays in the Pokal Final, I wouldn't be surprised if he was conveniently injured like I recall Götze being for the 2013 Champion's League Final

Götze got hurt in the 2nd leg against Madrid. I think he came off injured.

 

[Vipers31]

In reference to mint asking if Hummels plays in the Pokal Final, I wouldn't be surprised if he was conveniently injured like I recall Götze being for the 2013 Champion's League Final

Him being "conveniently" injured (with a wink) was always a myth, though. Dortmund tried to rush him after his injury against Real, he had a setback and he ended up being out much longer and missed the first couple months of the season with Bayern. Kind of a telling omen in hindsight. But it ended up being the furthest from convenient for everyone involved.

 

[cgf]

I can't really see it. I mean, he just extended his contract for three years in December. If he felt his fate was so tied to Pep, he would have just waited one month for Pep's decision.

Agreed.