Transfer: 2016 Summer transfer discussion

[East Coast Bias]

Hmm yeah IDK. You can't trust him. He wants big wages and big fees and he knows United are desperate for better players and have a ton of money.

I trust Watzke at least, but he also said Gündogan would leave for sure last summer. I think Dortmund wants to take care of all their business really early, and it seems Raiola is intent on drawing this out for attention and trying to find the highest bidder. Maybe Raiola will eventually settle back on Dortmund if he doesn't get the offers that he wants later in the summer. IDK what's going through Mkhi's mind, either. I never thought he was just a mercenary, and he still hasn't won anything in his career apart from the Ukrainian league. Hard to argue that United, Chelsea, or Arsenal are in a better position to win than Dortmund right now.

Yup. And if he's already been at United negotiating Ibra, and probably kicking around hypotheticals on Pogba wages, to at least try to drive up wages, why not throw Mkhi's name out.

If you're due some big commissions from a club, of course he's gonna think United is a great place for him to play.

If there wasn't other clients of his rumored/negotiating to go there, and just this, I would take much more seriously. Who knows tho.

I'd agree re his chances of winning the league though. EPL is going to be very competitive this year. With Pep leaving, Dortmund have got a good chance. Not to bash Ancelotti, cause he's a good manager, but his domestic career record doesn't blow you out of the water. Is it 3 league titles in 18 years now at big clubs?

 

[Edo]

"Grander stage"... good to see you back.

The club is run extremely well.

Letting players walk on a free and passing up 30 million dollars is insanity. Not even the super wealthy clubs let it happen. It's a recipe for disaster.

Also, look at the popularity, the money the leagues draw, the talent, etc, the EPL is clearly a step up on the Bundesliga. Remove Bayern Munich, and the Bundesliga fall behind Ligue 1. Money plays a huge role and nobody has much as the EPL does. It just is what it is. I don't even see the point in always arguing it with you.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Letting players walk on a free and passing up 30 million dollars is insanity. Not even the super wealthy clubs let it happen. It's a recipe for disaster.

Also, look at the popularity, the money the leagues draw, the talent, etc, the EPL is clearly a step up on the Bundesliga. Remove Bayern Munich, and the Bundesliga fall behind Ligue 1. Money plays a huge role and nobody has much as the EPL does. It just is what it is. I don't even see the point in always arguing it with you.

wot.

I'm glad you know more about Dortmund's finances than the people who run the club however.

 

[Savant]

The problem is agents like Raiola are taking it into their own hands to make super teams.

It sucks.

 

[les Habs]

-Nolito's agent linked the player with Barça and about 15,000 other sides.

-Pedro said he wouldn't rule out a return to Barça. He claims to have spoken to Bartomeu about a return.

 

[Vipers31]

Letting players walk on a free and passing up 30 million dollars is insanity. Not even the super wealthy clubs let it happen. It's a recipe for disaster.

You're talking out of your rear end again. It can be a recipe for disaster if you have a club that's bad with finances. Today's Dortmund isn't. They have more than enough money to spend - all they are doing is balancing transfer income versus success. What good does them another €30M when they lose another key player? They run a much greater risk of not going as deep in CL worth €10M and maybe even not qualifying for CL the year after with key players already leaving worth €30M+. It's incredibly short-sighted to panic and press the sell button just because a player has an expiring contract.

Also, Bayern has let it happen numerous times. Kroos was the one case where they decided against it because he had missing in the final stages of the treble season and wasn't seen as integral.

 

[jniklast]

I'd still prefer to sell Mkhitaryan now. Get a proper Gündogan replacement for the money (Kovacic) and keep Kuba as a veteran winger. The depth is fine anyway with all the new talents.

 

[BSHH]

Noone has to know much about "Dortmund's finances" to assess that holding on Mkhitaryan for one year and rejecting a transfer fee of perhaps more than € 30m is a very risky decision at best for Dortmund. Their prospects of winning the German championship and/or going deep in the CL campaign - the only reasons to shun a transfer revenue of such magnitude - are not very good after Hummels left and Reus will miss a large portion of the season. Mkhitaryan's last season might also very well be partly a fluke, since he played much worse before; miracle seasons are not uncommon particularly for Dortmund, where Kagawa and Sahin (not counting Götze yet) broke out and regressed to mean quickly.

There is no doubt that Watzke knows "Dortmund's finances" best. Nevertheless, he picked pride over prudence and kept Lewandowski for one year longer, effectively throwing € 20m away. To make matters worse, Dortmund even raised his salary in spite of an already existing contract. So the knowledge of those seemingly cryptic "Dortmund's finances" does not prevent a person from making a costly mistake.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[jniklast]

But was that Lewandowski decision to keep him really that bad? He helped a lot to reach the CL again while after he left they struggled.

And the raise he got was due to a clause, that he'd get a wage rise if Dortmund rejected a bid above a certain sum. The clause wasnt really triggered due to Bayern not technically making an offer, but to avoid further trouble they paid the 1.5M extra. And Lewandowski at least delivered.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Noone has to know much about "Dortmund's finances" to assess that holding on Mkhitaryan for one year and rejecting a transfer fee of perhaps more than € 30m is a very risky decision at best for Dortmund. Their prospects of winning the German championship and/or going deep in the CL campaign - the only reasons to shun a transfer revenue of such magnitude - are not very good after Hummels left and Reus will miss a large portion of the season. Mkhitaryan's last season might also very well be partly a fluke, since he played much worse before; miracle seasons are not uncommon particularly for Dortmund, where Kagawa and Sahin (not counting Götze yet) broke out and regressed to mean quickly.

There is no doubt that Watzke knows "Dortmund's finances" best. Nevertheless, he picked pride over prudence and kept Lewandowski for one year longer, effectively throwing € 20m away. To make matters worse, Dortmund even raised his salary in spite of an already existing contract. So the knowledge of those seemingly cryptic "Dortmund's finances" does not prevent a person from making a costly mistake.

Gruß,
BSHH

I agree in part with the argument that it will already be another transition year with Hummels and Gündogan gone, but I don't care. They have barely spent any money on transfers so far, and still have a €22M surplus this window according to Transfermarkt data (which may not be entirely accurate). Right now it looks like Götze will be available for free next summer, so if you're like me and think that Dortmund are interested in him and he's interested in Dortmund, they could potentially get a world class creative midfielder replacement for free next summer, whereas they would have to pay a lot of money this summer for one. You don't always have to maximize financial stability over competitive stability if the club is still getting healthier financially.

Sahin and Kagawa only regressed after they took advantage of their success to transfer to bigger clubs where they didn't fit nearly as well, and injuries also were a factor in Sahin's case. I'm willing to bet that Mkhitaryan would be able to replicate his play if he stayed next season.

 

[Ivan13]

Kovačić to Roma gaining traction according to la Gazzeta dello Sporto.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Spurs after 18 year old Wilfried Kanga, free agent from PSG according to reports.

 

[Cassano]

Hmm yeah IDK. You can't trust him. He wants big wages and big fees and he knows United are desperate for better players and have a ton of money.

I trust Watzke at least, but he also said Gündogan would leave for sure last summer. I think Dortmund wants to take care of all their business really early, and it seems Raiola is intent on drawing this out for attention and trying to find the highest bidder. Maybe Raiola will eventually settle back on Dortmund if he doesn't get the offers that he wants later in the summer. IDK what's going through Mkhi's mind, either. I never thought he was just a mercenary, and he still hasn't won anything in his career apart from the Ukrainian league. Hard to argue that United, Chelsea, or Arsenal are in a better position to win than Dortmund right now.

United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have squads good enough to win their domestic league. Dortmund has no chance with Bayern operating the way they do.

 

[Chimaera]

United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have squads good enough to win their domestic league. Dortmund has no chance with Bayern operating the way they do.

Of those, only Arsenal was really in shouting distance to the top.

United might end up with enough to win it, but that's a lot of work to redo what was an aging mix of different parts than what Jose will want.

Chelsea is also a big overhaul away from being there.

Dortmund for what it's worth, had the makings of a pretty good side that could compete, but with injuries and sales, they're off the mark at this stage.

 

[Theon]

Not a fan of Mkh. Would prefer we sign an out and out RW.

 

[Edo]

wot.

I'm glad you know more about Dortmund's finances than the people who run the club however.

Potentially, we could see Bayern Munich gain a net 100 million to further strengthen their club due to Dortmund letting Lewandowski walk. A direct rival. Is that not bad business?

Since winning the Bundesliga in 12-13, Dortmund are 20th in spending among European clubs. And if you look at net spending, they are 82nd.

They would've had more to spend and been in a better position had they sold Lewandowski. But I do see why they did it and the point they were making. But to do it a second time? That's silly.

 

[jniklast]

Potentially, we could see Bayern Munich gain a net 100 million to further strengthen their club due to Dortmund letting Lewandowski walk. A direct rival. Is that not bad business?

Since winning the Bundesliga in 12-13, Dortmund are 20th in spending among European clubs. And if you look at net spending, they are 82nd.

They would've had more to spend and been in a better position had they sold Lewandowski. But I do see why they did it and the point they were making. But to do it a second time? That's silly.

And if they has sold Lewandowski for 20M then Bayern could gain a net 80 million. So what's the difference? And would those 20 million have really made a difference for Dortmund? More of a difference than Lewandowski in 13-14? It's really negligible in the end. What's hurting them is not being able to extend the contracts, not letting them run out.

 

[Cin]

Noone has to know much about "Dortmund's finances" to assess that holding on Mkhitaryan for one year and rejecting a transfer fee of perhaps more than € 30m is a very risky decision at best for Dortmund. Their prospects of winning the German championship and/or going deep in the CL campaign - the only reasons to shun a transfer revenue of such magnitude - are not very good after Hummels left and Reus will miss a large portion of the season. Mkhitaryan's last season might also very well be partly a fluke, since he played much worse before; miracle seasons are not uncommon particularly for Dortmund, where Kagawa and Sahin (not counting Götze yet) broke out and regressed to mean quickly.

There is no doubt that Watzke knows "Dortmund's finances" best. Nevertheless, he picked pride over prudence and kept Lewandowski for one year longer, effectively throwing € 20m away. To make matters worse, Dortmund even raised his salary in spite of an already existing contract. So the knowledge of those seemingly cryptic "Dortmund's finances" does not prevent a person from making a costly mistake.

Gruß,
BSHH

Here I was thinking I was starting to lose my mind. I'm glad I'm not the only one able to see this **** for what it is.

The club has made some truly horrid decisions the past couple of seasons. The Dortmund faithful are too nice sometimes. Letting tens of millions walk is NEVER good business. Especially in a the world of football where the whole thing revolves around money. Watzke and Zorc lack ambition.

 

[mwojt21]

And if they has sold Lewandowski for 20M then Bayern could gain a net 80 million. So what's the difference? And would those 20 million have really made a difference for Dortmund? More of a difference than Lewandowski in 13-14? It's really negligible in the end. What's hurting them is not being able to extend the contracts, not letting them run out.

I see your point, but let's not pretend 20+mil isn't a lot of money--for ANY club, even those with good finances. If you know a player insists on letting it run out and leave on a free, sell them on (preferably abroad, and for as much as you can get) and buy a replacement. I'd say that, no matter the club.

Agreed that it hurts not being able to extend the contracts. Any thoughts on why they have so much trouble with that? Can they compete for wages? Just seems odd, given its a well-run, competitive club, that brings in talent, and has great coaching.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Here I was thinking I was starting to lose my mind. I'm glad I'm not the only one able to see this **** for what it is.

The club has made some truly horrid decisions the past couple of seasons. The Dortmund faithful are too nice sometimes. Letting tens of millions walk is NEVER good business. Especially in a the world of football where the whole thing revolves around money. Watzke and Zorc lack ambition.

Refusing to sell your best player from the previous season shows a lack of ambition now? Interesting.

The Dortmund faithful are not too nice. If anything, the fan base is full of people like you who overreact to the slightest sign of disloyalty, or who dwell on the occasional debatable decision from club management instead of focusing on all their great decisions.

I see your point, but let's not pretend 20+mil isn't a lot of money--for ANY club, even those with good finances. If you know a player insists on letting it run out and leave on a free, sell them on (preferably abroad, and for as much as you can get) and buy a replacement. I'd say that, no matter the club.

Agreed that it hurts not being able to extend the contracts. Any thoughts on why they have so much trouble with that? Can they compete for wages? Just seems odd, given its a well-run, competitive club, that brings in talent, and has great coaching.

Refusal to include buyout clauses and refusal to sell star players with more than one year remaining on their contract means it's a bigger commitment for a player to extend than at a club that does those things. They've improved a lot recently with respect to the wages they offer. I don't think that's the issue so much. Also, unlike some clubs, they don't coerce players into renewing their contracts by forcing them to train individually.

 

[Savant]

Skrtel to Fenerbahce may be done for £5.5m.

Conflicting reports on if Liverpool will look to replace him or not. Doubt they want to spend to add a CB that is likely to be no better than 4th choice. More likely they go for a utility guy and/or just shove Lucas back there

 

[Jeffrey]

CB is certainly not a priority but depth is always necessary.

 

[McOilbleeder]

Skrtel to Fenerbahce may be done for £5.5m.

Conflicting reports on if Liverpool will look to replace him or not. Doubt they want to spend to add a CB that is likely to be no better than 4th choice. More likely they go for a utility guy and/or just shove Lucas back there

I can't imagine we're going to be spending big money there unless Sakho's suspension business isn't behind us. Sakho/Lovren/Matip/Gomez is a nice rotation with good depth.

Sad to see Skrtel leave but it was time. 320 appearances for the club over 8.5 years. Was an absolute colossus for us back there. Great servant for us, hopefully he finds happiness in Turkey.

 

[cgf]

Dortmund can't continue to be run like they are. Letting Mkhitaryan walk for nothing next summer is the kind of move that kills clubs. At some point, you need to take a hit and let go of your pride. Take that 30 million and invest it. The Bundesliga isn't strong or deep enough for Dortmund not to finish in a CL place without Mkhitaryan anyways. So you can't argue that potentially losing a CL spot without him > getting that CL money while letting him walk.

It's pretty clear that Manchester United and Arsenal are more appealing. They offer more money, play on a grander stage, and allow the players brand + image to grow further. With Mourinho at United though, they take a little hit.

Hell, if Arsenal were in that position with any of their players, I would definitely want them to sell.

At least you never change lol. Your ignorance has been missed.