2016 NHL Draft - Part 2 - June 24th

[Matias Maccete]

You value MacInnis over Merkley? I'm the opposite.

Merkley did have a weak draft +1 year, and macinnis has made pretty big strides each year after he was drafted.

I'd rank Werenski #4 in this draft. What about y'all? Maybe EDM thinking that they are too stacked on LD with Nurse, Klefbom, Reinhart, Davidson etc is willing to move down to #7 for #37. Maybe CBJ is willing to accept our #4 for Werenski. CBJ takes Puljujarvi at #3 and Logan Brown at #4.

I like it, especially since werenski would be one year closer than a D we'd draft this year.

 

[Heldig]

In the hockey writers latest rankings
2016 NHL Draft War Room: Top 30 Impact Prospects - Part 1
They have Dubois falling to 7 with Jost and Brown riding to 5 and 6.

 

[zerekstar]

In the hockey writers latest rankings
2016 NHL Draft War Room: Top 30 Impact Prospects - Part 1
They have Dubois falling to 7 with Jost and Brown riding to 5 and 6.

Only knock on Dubois is he's not the fastest skater but other then that, he's a very good prospect. I would be pretty happy if we were able to pick him up at 7 even though center is not really our need. He's too good to leave on the table.

 

[Heldig]

I just thought it interesting since a lot of discussion here was (perhaps) reaching for Brown and now a fairly good sports site has him going before our pick.

 

[zerekstar]

I just thought it interesting since a lot of discussion here was (perhaps) reaching for Brown and now a fairly good sports site has him going before our pick.

They must read this forum

 

[tucknroll]

I'd rank Werenski #4 in this draft. What about y'all? Maybe EDM thinking that they are too stacked on LD with Nurse, Klefbom, Reinhart, Davidson etc is willing to move down to #7 for #37. Maybe CBJ is willing to accept our #4 for Werenski. CBJ takes Puljujarvi at #3 and Logan Brown at #4.

Werenski>>>Brown

A potential top pairing D before a potential second line C

No way Brown is a top 5 pick either (who's value is starting to get exaggerated now, he should probably be picked 10-14 MAYBE up to 8 or 9). He's made great strides in his game this year but he has only been doing this well for 2 months in the past 2 years with a U-18 tounry that he played over his head good in (he played an entire season this year where he didn't play as good as those 7 games and his post season was nothing spectacular either) .. he has a lot more to prove and PLD would make much more sense, but still not worth Werenski who was ranked with Provorov and Hanafin and has lived up to the hype since last year

I also pick Merkley over Macinnis though value is probably pretty close, Merkley should be a top 6 wing if he can turn his health problems around, most of Macinnis's success this year comes because he's a man among boys out there now and it meshed well with Bracco's huge amount of talent and ability to QB their line, his next couple years in the AHL will be much better for his progress

Probably part of a minority who believes this but i think trying to acquire Barrie for the 7th+Stone or something ( then signing him to a 7-8 year deal) and then trading OEL to Edm for a overpayment like 4OV (PLD)+Nurse +a top 6 roster forward (try for Ebs but might settle for a bit worse) or top 4 D + Laleggia (probably a future 3rd pairing D that will be great in the AHL next year) would be the best bet for the team because OEL is going want 8-9 mill in 3 years and as a team who cant afford to even spend the salary cap, they cant afford to pay him that and have a deep enough team to contend with the other top contenders, so pretty much get a cheaper #1 with Barrie who will cost 5.5-6 mill a year and is the same age as OEL, fill more roster spots and move up in the draft

essentially
OEL+Stone for 7OV-4OV swap, Nurse, Barrie, top 6 forward or top 4 D (hopefully) and Laleggia

 

[hbk]

Brown goes in top10. I think it's a lock.

 

[Jakey53]

Werenski>>>Brown

A potential top pairing D before a potential second line C

No way Brown is a top 5 pick either (who's value is starting to get exaggerated now, he should probably be picked 10-14 MAYBE up to 8 or 9). He's made great strides in his game this year but he has only been doing this well for 2 months in the past 2 years with a U-18 tounry that he played over his head good in (he played an entire season this year where he didn't play as good as those 7 games and his post season was nothing spectacular either) .. he has a lot more to prove and PLD would make much more sense, but still not worth Werenski who was ranked with Provorov and Hanafin and has lived up to the hype since last year

I also pick Merkley over Macinnis though value is probably pretty close, Merkley should be a top 6 wing if he can turn his health problems around, most of Macinnis's success this year comes because he's a man among boys out there now and it meshed well with Bracco's huge amount of talent and ability to QB their line, his next couple years in the AHL will be much better for his progress

Probably part of a minority who believes this but i think trying to acquire Barrie for the 7th+Stone or something ( then signing him to a 7-8 year deal) and then trading OEL to Edm for a overpayment like 4OV (PLD)+Nurse +a top 6 roster forward (try for Ebs but might settle for a bit worse) or top 4 D + Laleggia (probably a future 3rd pairing D that will be great in the AHL next year) would be the best bet for the team because OEL is going want 8-9 mill in 3 years and as a team who cant afford to even spend the salary cap, they cant afford to pay him that and have a deep enough team to contend with the other top contenders, so pretty much get a cheaper #1 with Barrie who will cost 5.5-6 mill a year and is the same age as OEL, fill more roster spots and move up in the draft

essentially
OEL+Stone for 7OV-4OV swap, Nurse, Barrie, top 6 forward or top 4 D (hopefully) and Laleggia

OEL is not going anywhere. Watching the playoffs gives us a better perspective on other high end D. For me, the value of OEL has gone up after watching these other teams.

 

[lanky]

Brown goes in top10. I think it's a lock.

Yes definitely. His production is on the level of Nylander but he's also a giant and a center.

 

[RABBIT]

Brown goes in top10. I think it's a lock.

Gotta hand it to hbk here, he's been saying this longer than anyone, and as of late, it seems the hockey world agrees with him.

 

[PhoPhan]

I've never been a huge Werenski fan. I see another Jack Johnson, not a future #1 (though it's worth mentioning that Johnson was projected to be a #1 at the same stage of his career).

 

[rt]

Would you like to bet all of your vcash against all of my vcash (I'm sure neither of us has ever used vcash)?

I say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Weresnki is having more of an NHL impact than Noah Hanifin. If so, you fork over the vbucks.

You say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Hanifin is having more of an NHL impact than Zach Werenski. If so, I fork over the vbucks (as soon as I figure out how).

If we can't agree because both are really good, I'm taking a moral victory.

If we can't agree because both are disappointing, you take your moral victory.

 

[hbk]

Gotta hand it to hbk here, he's been saying this longer than anyone, and as of late, it seems the hockey world agrees with him.

This wasn't a great accomplishment.

I watched the kid live at a tournament and then talked with scouts about what I saw and they validated my opinion. Button was especially kind to chat and full of opinion that he was nice enough to share.

 

[zerekstar]

Werenski>>>Brown

A potential top pairing D before a potential second line C

No way Brown is a top 5 pick either (who's value is starting to get exaggerated now, he should probably be picked 10-14 MAYBE up to 8 or 9). He's made great strides in his game this year but he has only been doing this well for 2 months in the past 2 years with a U-18 tounry that he played over his head good in (he played an entire season this year where he didn't play as good as those 7 games and his post season was nothing spectacular either) .. he has a lot more to prove and PLD would make much more sense, but still not worth Werenski who was ranked with Provorov and Hanafin and has lived up to the hype since last year

I also pick Merkley over Macinnis though value is probably pretty close, Merkley should be a top 6 wing if he can turn his health problems around, most of Macinnis's success this year comes because he's a man among boys out there now and it meshed well with Bracco's huge amount of talent and ability to QB their line, his next couple years in the AHL will be much better for his progress

Probably part of a minority who believes this but i think trying to acquire Barrie for the 7th+Stone or something ( then signing him to a 7-8 year deal) and then trading OEL to Edm for a overpayment like 4OV (PLD)+Nurse +a top 6 roster forward (try for Ebs but might settle for a bit worse) or top 4 D + Laleggia (probably a future 3rd pairing D that will be great in the AHL next year) would be the best bet for the team because OEL is going want 8-9 mill in 3 years and as a team who cant afford to even spend the salary cap, they cant afford to pay him that and have a deep enough team to contend with the other top contenders, so pretty much get a cheaper #1 with Barrie who will cost 5.5-6 mill a year and is the same age as OEL, fill more roster spots and move up in the draft

essentially
OEL+Stone for 7OV-4OV swap, Nurse, Barrie, top 6 forward or top 4 D (hopefully) and Laleggia

That's why he will draft high, because his game is still growing. How good will he become? It's not what he is that scouts look at but at what he will be when he matures. He may project to be elite.

 

[tucknroll]

That's why he will draft high, because his game is still growing. How good will he become? It's not what he is that scouts look at but at what he will be when he matures. He may project to be elite.

That makes little sense, why would a player who's dominated every year he's played deserve to be picked after a kid who's shown great play for 2 months? is there a higher chance that you'll end up with the version of Brown he's shown through the last two years (solid second line center style) or the last 2 months version that has a 7 game U-18 tounry where he was awesome (a high end second line center style)? He has good potential, but very little "elite" potential
To say his game is still growing and thats why he's going top10 is silly as well, because it can be said about all these kids. they all have shown great strides in their development... Browns good and i like what he can become which is why i see him right around 10OV but he doesn't play like he's 6'6 and if he's not physical when he's touring over kids, then i doubt he will be when he's just slightly bigger than men

To Lanky
The comparison to Nylander isn't as fair of one either though. Nylander led his team in points and had way less help from his teammates than Brown did, he also stepped up much better than Brown for the playoffs, Browns line mate Fischer was the best player on Windsor other then maybe Sergachev (who is very good, just never looked like he was trying) which really helped Browns production

If Brown goes top 5 (i pray to Vancouver if he does) i will be laughing because that means a real top 5 player is potentially falling to the Coyotes

 

[tucknroll]

Would you like to bet all of your vcash against all of my vcash (I'm sure neither of us has ever used vcash)?

I say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Weresnki is having more of an NHL impact than Noah Hanifin. If so, you fork over the vbucks.

You say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Hanifin is having more of an NHL impact than Zach Werenski. If so, I fork over the vbucks (as soon as I figure out how).

If we can't agree because both are really good, I'm taking a moral victory.

If we can't agree because both are disappointing, you take your moral victory.

I've always leaned Weresnki for his offensive potential but Hanafin is more of a sure thing and great defensively, too hard to decide between them at this stage id think

 

[zerekstar]

That makes little sense, why would a player who's dominated every year he's played deserve to be picked after a kid who's shown great play for 2 months? is there a higher chance that you'll end up with the version of Brown he's shown through the last two years (solid second line center style) or the last 2 months version that has a 7 game U-18 tounry where he was awesome (a high end second line center style)? He has good potential, but very little "elite" potential
To say his game is still growing and thats why he's going top10 is silly as well, because it can be said about all these kids. they all have shown great strides in their development... Browns good and i like what he can become which is why i see him right around 10OV but he doesn't play like he's 6'6 and if he's not physical when he's touring over kids, then i doubt he will be when he's just slightly bigger than men

To Lanky
The comparison to Nylander isn't as fair of one either though. Nylander led his team in points and had way less help from his teammates than Brown did, he also stepped up much better than Brown for the playoffs, Browns line mate Fischer was the best player on Windsor other then maybe Sergachev (who is very good, just never looked like he was trying) which really helped Browns production

If Brown goes top 5 (i pray to Vancouver if he does) i will be laughing because that means a real top 5 player is potentially falling to the Coyotes

I was not disagreeing with you but reasoning how a scout might might view things. But maybe you're right and we will draft in a manner that is fair and politically correct. We will not take into account how big guys often take longer to grow into their body then smaller guys typically do and nor would we dare to project and see who is closest to their max in development and who has the most room to improve. We will just look at what has happened up to draft day and leave it at that. Maybe we don't need scouts cause we all can read stat sheets just fine so we will just go off of that I guess.

 

[PhoPhan]

Would you like to bet all of your vcash against all of my vcash (I'm sure neither of us has ever used vcash)?

I say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Weresnki is having more of an NHL impact than Noah Hanifin. If so, you fork over the vbucks.

You say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Hanifin is having more of an NHL impact than Zach Werenski. If so, I fork over the vbucks (as soon as I figure out how).

If we can't agree because both are really good, I'm taking a moral victory.

If we can't agree because both are disappointing, you take your moral victory.

With the caveats a) I have never used vcash and don't totally know how to, and b) we'll definitely both forget about this by then, absolutely. I'd put Provorov above Werenski long term, too.

Given that he and Hanifin were drafted ahead of Werenski, this doesn't seem especially controversial. I think where I'm a little more out of the consensus is in my belief that while Provorov and Hanifin will turn into all-around top pairing defensemen (along the lines of Kimmo Timonen and Duncan Keith respectively), Werenski tops out as a valuable offensive producer with some holes in his game that can be exposed more easily.

 

[hbk]

That makes little sense, why would a player who's dominated every year he's played deserve to be picked after a kid who's shown great play for 2 months? is there a higher chance that you'll end up with the version of Brown he's shown through the last two years (solid second line center style) or the last 2 months version that has a 7 game U-18 tounry where he was awesome (a high end second line center style)? He has good potential, but very little "elite" potential
To say his game is still growing and thats why he's going top10 is silly as well, because it can be said about all these kids. they all have shown great strides in their development... Browns good and i like what he can become which is why i see him right around 10OV but he doesn't play like he's 6'6 and if he's not physical when he's touring over kids, then i doubt he will be when he's just slightly bigger than men

To Lanky
The comparison to Nylander isn't as fair of one either though. Nylander led his team in points and had way less help from his teammates than Brown did, he also stepped up much better than Brown for the playoffs, Browns line mate Fischer was the best player on Windsor other then maybe Sergachev (who is very good, just never looked like he was trying) which really helped Browns production

If Brown goes top 5 (i pray to Vancouver if he does) i will be laughing because that means a real top 5 player is potentially falling to the Coyotes

Brown finished tied for top 20 in scoring. Yes he played with Fischer but keep in mind we reportedly "reached" at that selection last year. Nylander played with a very talented C as well in McLeod who's a potential top 10-15 pick as well.

Browns stats are quite impressive for a player adjusting to speed of game while getting used to a 6'6" body. Coordination is a work in process with teens as they adjust.

Browns projection once he fills in and gets strength to suit his frame he will be a force that will be extremely hard to play against. He cut through Chychrun Fabbro like they were insects. They had no answer and took penalty after penalty which led to some early PP goals and quickly deflated the Canadian team and they GAVE UP. Brown was unstoppable and if this is him as a work in process ask yourself what the finished product looks like and who on our roster today could match up physically against him.

 

[Jakey53]

Gotta hand it to hbk here, he's been saying this longer than anyone, and as of late, it seems the hockey world agrees with him.

That is why I like reading his posts. He is very knowledgeable about hockey, especially the juniors.

 

[rt]

I don't know how it works, either. Im guessing we won't care about the stakes of the wager should either of us miraculously remember this. Haha.

 

[BUX7PHX]

That makes little sense, why would a player who's dominated every year he's played deserve to be picked after a kid who's shown great play for 2 months? is there a higher chance that you'll end up with the version of Brown he's shown through the last two years (solid second line center style) or the last 2 months version that has a 7 game U-18 tounry where he was awesome (a high end second line center style)? He has good potential, but very little "elite" potential
To say his game is still growing and thats why he's going top10 is silly as well, because it can be said about all these kids. they all have shown great strides in their development... Browns good and i like what he can become which is why i see him right around 10OV but he doesn't play like he's 6'6 and if he's not physical when he's touring over kids, then i doubt he will be when he's just slightly bigger than men

To Lanky
The comparison to Nylander isn't as fair of one either though. Nylander led his team in points and had way less help from his teammates than Brown did, he also stepped up much better than Brown for the playoffs, Browns line mate Fischer was the best player on Windsor other then maybe Sergachev (who is very good, just never looked like he was trying) which really helped Browns production

If Brown goes top 5 (i pray to Vancouver if he does) i will be laughing because that means a real top 5 player is potentially falling to the Coyotes

Because players develop at different rates. If we went by the 2 year logic, Sean Day would be a lock for the top 5, b/c he was so good for two years at age 14 and 15 right? Plus, if the right team gets his hands on him, development can accelerate or decelerate.

I think we all understand the position that you are taking, and for the most part, it should be agreed upon that the player who was productive for a longer period of time deserves to go higher. But if that player has already hit his theoretical ceiling, and another player hasn't, you can make just as much a case for the still developing player.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Would you like to bet all of your vcash against all of my vcash (I'm sure neither of us has ever used vcash)?

I say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Weresnki is having more of an NHL impact than Noah Hanifin. If so, you fork over the vbucks.

You say that in 4 years, we'll both agree that Hanifin is having more of an NHL impact than Zach Werenski. If so, I fork over the vbucks (as soon as I figure out how).

If we can't agree because both are really good, I'm taking a moral victory.

If we can't agree because both are disappointing, you take your moral victory.

I remember saying last draft that I thought Werenski would end up the best of that bunch of Dman. His AHL playoff performance has been stellar, 11pts in 13 games on a team who's leading scorer barley cracked 45pts

 

[Tripod]

I just figured we'd do something like trade back in the 3rd to pick up a 4th. Devils, Ducks and Hawks have multiple 4th round picks.
67 for 76 + 104
67 for 84 +114
67 for 82 + 112

Ok...well let me ask you this. How about a trade straight with Philly?

67 for 81 +108...then you send the 108 right back to us.

It fits exactly what you would be doing anyways, it just becomes a straight deal between our teams. It's not like you were keeping the later pick anyways.

Thoughts?