2016 New Lottery System: Discourage Tanking?

Dogewow

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Feb 1, 2015
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Honestly the NHL should just impose a cap on teams that had already selected first a certain amount of times in a certain time frame and leave the lottery odds the way they are now.

I get the league doesn't want teams to loose on purpose to get better picks, and its a whole image thing/integrity of the sport, yadda yadda yadda. That's all well and good and I really do understand it and this system would change that. However, I feel like a lot of people (fans all the way up to the people at the head of the league) are forgetting that there are some absolutely bad teams that need the best players in a draft to help them become a better team quickly. That doesn't mean that a horrendous team needs the 30th pick 4 out of 6 years, but they should have a better shot than they will next year imo.

Mark my words, teams will get screwed and rebuilds will last much longer under this system. All these fans that are angry about how the Sabres and Coyotes season devolved into loosing will be the same ones crying about how the system is gonna screw their 30th place team out of a franchise player. People need to understand the idea of perspective.
 

Oscar Acosta

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Mar 19, 2011
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Really, the 2015 lottery should be enough to prevent tanking. Buffalo and Arizona absolutely gutted their teams in an effort to get McDavid. The Oilers for as terrible as they are actually tried to win games.

Then lottery night the Sabres and Coyotes had the rug pulled out from under their feet. :laugh:

If there was ever proof of why not to tank - that gold card with the Oilers symbol on it was it.
 

Bps21*

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Really, the 2015 lottery should be enough to prevent tanking. Buffalo and Arizona absolutely gutted their teams in an effort to get McDavid. The Oilers for as terrible as they are actually tried to win games.

Then lottery night the Sabres and Coyotes had the rug pulled out from under their feet. :laugh:

If there was ever proof of why not to tank - that gold card with the Oilers symbol on it was it.

What a fantastical load of nonsense.

The only lesson you can even take is stay bad and they might keep handing you things. What's pathetic is that two teams had to TRY to finish worse than the oilers in year 8 of their rebuild. Not that the lottery did what it does...randomly rewarded a team...at a rate of 80% to not be the team in last.

This myth that buffalo and Arizona tanked for one player is super stupid. They know math guys. Guys, they know math. I find it hilarious that people keep pushing that narrative. That men in charge of franchises would blow it up for a 20 % chance at something. Hilarious.

We could look at the reality of what happened in buffalo with their best players contracts all running out the same day and them having already fallen to the basement WITH said players...but no...they threw everyone away (they didn't) for a 20 % chance at a player (they didn't). Instead lets just keep pretending we are dumb dumbs who don't understand simple things.

Buffalo had a better record than last year.

Edmonton got worse.

Get off your high horse.
 

Oscar Acosta

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Mar 19, 2011
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Yes, they absolutely did. You're entirely kidding yourself or trying to justify it in your own head to say they didn't tank.

There's no high horse, I didn't expect the Oilers to win, nor at this point wanted to go the same route. Even your Leafs traded people away trying to go lower once they realized it was a lost cause. The Oilers actually added players to get better and replaced a coach to get better.

Ending up where they did was an entire fluke of odds and being the team that actually tried to win games.

Luck of the draw. Twice. The Oilers have won it twice by not being dead last. It's luck of the draw. Also the time the Oilers decided to go all out in the final game of the season and won vs. Calgary, which moved them up a spot and lost the lottery due to it to Chicago when they took Patrick Kane. So how much more would you be pissed if they played to lose and also had him in the system?
 

Mattilaus

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Sep 12, 2014
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Yes, they absolutely did. You're entirely kidding yourself or trying to justify it in your own head to say they didn't tank.

There's no high horse, I didn't expect the Oilers to win, nor at this point wanted to go the same route. Even your Leafs traded people away trying to go lower once they realized it was a lost cause. The Oilers actually added players to get better and replaced a coach to get better.

Ending up where they did was an entire fluke of odds and being the team that actually tried to win games.

Luck of the draw. Twice. The Oilers have won it twice by not being dead last. It's luck of the draw. Also the time the Oilers decided to go all out in the final game of the season and won vs. Calgary, which moved them up a spot and lost the lottery due to it to Chicago when they took Patrick Kane. So how much more would you be pissed if they played to lose and also had him in the system?

Whether or not you believe Buffalo tanked or didn't is irrelevant. Where you are wrong is the reason (assuming they did as you suggest), they tanked to guarantee Eichel. As the post above stated, do you really think that these people are dumb enough to bank their future on a 20% chance? Tim Murray said not 24 hours before that he expected to lose the lottery.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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The new system is good enough. It will ensure that even finishing bottom 2 or 3 doesn't necessarily guarantee you the player you think you're going to get. Arizona and Buffalo I think learned that full on tanking doesn't necessarily work (or at least go exactly to plan).

Edmonton just got lucky, that's all there is to it, they actively even tried to play themselves out of a better (statistical) draft position and played better down the stretch.

What you want to avoid are situations like what the Penguins did for Mario Lemieux where they would actively basically dress and AHL roster and demote a goalie if he won two games or more and the coach was basically even pressed to tank.

That type of thing is out of the window with a lottery because no one would do that unless they had a 100% guarantee of a superstar player.

The NHL has great parity compared to leagues like the NBA and MLB as is, and probably better than or on par with the NFL.

The NHL needs to improve a lot of things, but parity and the tanking really is not one of them.
 

CaseyMitts37

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Mar 2, 2013
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Yes, they absolutely did. You're entirely kidding yourself or trying to justify it in your own head to say they didn't tank.

There's no high horse, I didn't expect the Oilers to win, nor at this point wanted to go the same route. Even your Leafs traded people away trying to go lower once they realized it was a lost cause. The Oilers actually added players to get better and replaced a coach to get better.

Ending up where they did was an entire fluke of odds and being the team that actually tried to win games.

Luck of the draw. Twice. The Oilers have won it twice by not being dead last. It's luck of the draw. Also the time the Oilers decided to go all out in the final game of the season and won vs. Calgary, which moved them up a spot and lost the lottery due to it to Chicago when they took Patrick Kane. So how much more would you be pissed if they played to lose and also had him in the system?

I can't imagine Murray tanking a whole season for a 20% chance at one guy

The whole season he was talking about how there are two elite centers in this draft
 

Butt Ox

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Oct 24, 2006
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Really, the 2015 lottery should be enough to prevent tanking. Buffalo and Arizona absolutely gutted their teams in an effort to get McDavid. The Oilers for as terrible as they are actually tried to win games.

For a team that was trying to win, why do they have the same number of regulation wins as Arizona, and only one more than the Sabres? You'd think that if they were all out trying, and the other two tanking, that there would be more of a differential. Are you saying that a team with that much talent is comparable to two teams that were gutted?

Is the difference then, as you state, how terrible the Oilers are? A team that has won a plethora of 1st oa's and numerous top 5 picks? If a team that drafts in that position year in/year out is terrible after all that talent being added, why the **** do we need a lottery? Wouldn't the old system distribute talent just as well?
 

Thorton02

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Feb 6, 2009
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I can't imagine Murray tanking a whole season for a 20% chance at one guy

The whole season he was talking about how there are two elite centers in this draft

He would have done it regardless. He was building through the draft and didn't want to rush prospects into the NHL(hello Detroit model). The only thing to do was to supplement the roster with NHL vets and a handful of AHL/NHL tweeners.

It's obvious he wanted McDavid (who doesn't), but to think Buffalo screwed the pooch by losing the lottery is nonsensical.
 

FoSotC

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Aug 16, 2010
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The NHL has great parity compared to leagues like the NBA and MLB as is, and probably better than or on par with the NFL.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Long-term, I think it's likely that we'll start to see it slip, with unattractive small markets unable to acquire top talent through any means unless they get lucky in the draft lottery on any given year.
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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He would have done it regardless. He was building through the draft and didn't want to rush prospects into the NHL(hello Detroit model). The only thing to do was to supplement the roster with NHL vets and a handful of AHL/NHL tweeners.

It's obvious he wanted McDavid (who doesn't), but to think Buffalo screwed the pooch by losing the lottery is nonsensical.
The fact that Murray basically lied to everyone and said he didn't envision the Sabres as a 30th place team, even though all his moves was so they could lose and the fact he mentioned having dreams about McDavid, only shows he knew exactly what he was doing.
 

Sarcastic

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Sep 18, 2011
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The fact that Murray basically lied to everyone and said he didn't envision the Sabres as a 30th place team, even though all his moves was so they could lose and the fact he mentioned having dreams about McDavid, only shows he knew exactly what he was doing.

Oh god forbid the man traded pending UFAs to other teams, how DISGRACEFUL of him to do such a move that has never been done before in the HISTORY OF THE NHL! And how DISGRACEFUL of him to want the TOP PROSPECT in a draft that is a GENERATIONAL TALENT! No SIRREE, no other team wanted to have him so BADLY either! I'm sure all the other teams wanted Jack Eichel instead, they had DREAMS of him INSTEAD I'M SURE!
 

LeafsNation75

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Oh god forbid the man traded pending UFAs to other teams, how DISGRACEFUL of him to do such a move that has never been done before in the HISTORY OF THE NHL! And how DISGRACEFUL of him to want the TOP PROSPECT in a draft that is a GENERATIONAL TALENT! No SIRREE, no other team wanted to have him so BADLY either! I'm sure all the other teams wanted Jack Eichel instead, they had DREAMS of him INSTEAD I'M SURE!
My main point was Murray should not have lied when he said how he never envisioned the Sabres being a 30th place team based on the trades he made.
 

Sarcastic

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Sep 18, 2011
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My main point was Murray should not have lied when he said how he never envisioned the Sabres being a 30th place team based on the trades he made.

Oh god forbid a GM expects his team to compete going into the year but when things go poorly he trades his UFAs. What a freaking liar right?
 

Moops

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Jan 22, 2015
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The fact that Murray basically lied to everyone and said he didn't envision the Sabres as a 30th place team, even though all his moves was so they could lose and the fact he mentioned having dreams about McDavid, only shows he knew exactly what he was doing.

Someone doesn't know the difference between "fact" and "opinion."

That the Sabres tried to lose is an opinion, a popular one, but one that also has a hard time holding up under any serious scrutiny. The only thing they could have done differently in a non-tanking world would be to hold out for a slightly better deal for their expiring UFAs.
 

shazariahl

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Apr 7, 2009
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Really, the 2015 lottery should be enough to prevent tanking. Buffalo and Arizona absolutely gutted their teams in an effort to get McDavid. The Oilers for as terrible as they are actually tried to win games.

Then lottery night the Sabres and Coyotes had the rug pulled out from under their feet. :laugh:

If there was ever proof of why not to tank - that gold card with the Oilers symbol on it was it.

Buffalo's plan all year was to get the exact player they got. So You can't say they "had the rug pulled out from under their feet".
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Buffalo's plan all year was to get the exact player they got. So You can't say they "had the rug pulled out from under their feet".

The new system gives no guarantee to the last place team to be able to pick 1 or even 2 though. So I'd say that whole "yeah but Buffalo got Eichel" thing is addressed with the new setup already.
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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Buffalo's plan all year was to get the exact player they got. So You can't say they "had the rug pulled out from under their feet".
I honestly think that Murray would have preferred to have McDavid instead of Eichel. I mean you never heard him say things like how he had dreams of Eichel, the way he said that about McDavid or saying he was disappointed they didn't win the lottery and the 1st pick.
 

Sarcastic

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Sep 18, 2011
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I honestly think that Murray would have preferred to have McDavid instead of Eichel. I mean you never heard him say things like how he had dreams of Eichel, the way he said that about McDavid or saying he was disappointed they didn't win the lottery and the 1st pick.

Oh god forbid someone is disappointed that they got 2nd instead of 1st. I'm sure you have childhood memories of finishing 2nd and feeling much better about it then if you would have finished 1st.
 

ZeroPT*

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I honestly think that Murray would have preferred to have McDavid instead of Eichel. I mean you never heard him say things like how he had dreams of Eichel, the way he said that about McDavid or saying he was disappointed they didn't win the lottery and the 1st pick.

well no ****
 

GindyDraws

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That's rough for a genuine bottom feeder.

You could finish dead last for 3 straight years and you'd have a 12% chance of never getting a top-3 pick. Good luck selling tickets after that.

That's why I hate draft lotteries. Sure, you discourage tanking, but legitimately bad teams tend to get screwed by it. Granted, counterarguments would be made about aspects like incompetent management being why they suck, but unfortunate factors like injuries can hamstring a prospecting club.

The reason why people got so riled up about Edmonton winning (again) was because a moronic team was rewarded yet again for gross incompetence.

In the end, no system is perfect.
 

LeafsNation75

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Jan 15, 2010
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Oh god forbid someone is disappointed that they got 2nd instead of 1st. I'm sure you have childhood memories of finishing 2nd and feeling much better about it then if you would have finished 1st.
Maybe you can argue that in 2014 he didn't care about Buffalo not getting the 1st pick because chances are they still take Sam Reinhart had it happened. However I don't remember Murray saying he was disappointed 1 year earlier.
 

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