2016 Draft Thread II (June 24th-25th) - CBJ to draft 3rd

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PlusMinusZero

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Sep 19, 2014
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Leading One's main input doesn't come from coaching but from creating a culture in which for example delayed starts from behind the goal are part of the accepted narrative of game. Delayed stop and go control plays cease to be supernatural events which terrify the simple people. Instead of fear they create common understanding of the game which includes far more than just individuals. A deep blue sea to dive into. To my knowledge Leading One is the only source for this approach in the whole ice hockey world. If that isn't a merit for the Leading Analyst, what is?

I would be interested to hear from playbooks of Tortorella and Bednar. Perhaps even from themselves. Who is gonna ask them to draw their tactical understanding on a flip chart? The culture isn't there.

Dear lord:laugh:100% pure comedy gold right here,funny guy you are.

And Petteri Sihvonen is a leading one!!?The man is a joke to everyone who knows even the basics of hockey.And lost his coaching job because he really didnt have any clue how to coach and his understanding of the game is in kindergarten level.So not sure his "professional(and when we speak of Sihvonen this term is really loose)" take on anything hockey related should be taken seriously.
 

Joe MacMillan

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I would be interested to hear from playbooks of Tortorella and Bednar. Perhaps even from themselves. Who is gonna ask them to draw their tactical understanding on a flip chart? The culture isn't there.

1. The mainstream audience finds that stuff abstract and boring. Team systems are interesting only to the point where strategies and tactics are a higher level issue.

2. Why would Tortorella or any NHL coach be willing to have the nuances of the underlying tactics of his playbook be exposed to the world? That's like asking the CEO of a software company to reveal the source code of their product for everyone to see.
 

Tulipunaruusu*

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2. Why would Tortorella or any NHL coach be willing to have the nuances of the underlying tactics of his playbook be exposed to the world? That's like asking the CEO of a software company to reveal the source code of their product for everyone to see.

Why can world-class coach Jukka Jalonen talk about the game in higher level terms and John Tortorella can't? You are right about that they haven't been close to revealing a single detail of John Tortorella's playbook in the countless, mind-numbing press sessions.

The next level of tactical setup discussion...the one we are talking about should be obvious grain to chew for any ice hockey coach in North America so these are not exactly labeled for your eyes only on the flip chart. Without committing into talk of this kind you are left with a feeling whether there is a single person in the whole Blue Jackets organization who can vouch for anything more than culture of work which Jarmo Kekäläinen is slave of. Like Leading One says: Jarmo Kekäläinen hasn't coached a single day and it shows.

Boring for the masses, yet in both footballs tactical discussion is allowed and even encouraged, celebrated. I do not think that the current media output is exactly exciting. Surely you could get more stories out of Tortorella or Bednar questioning their tactical choices.
 

Joe MacMillan

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Why can world-class coach Jukka Jalonen talk about the game in higher level terms and John Tortorella can't? You are right about that they haven't been close to revealing a single detail of John Tortorella's playbook in the countless, mind-numbing press sessions.

The next level of tactical setup discussion...the one we are talking about should be obvious grain to chew for any ice hockey coach in North America so these are not exactly labeled for your eyes only on the flip chart. Without committing into talk of this kind you are left with a feeling whether there is a single person in the whole Blue Jackets organization who can vouch for anything more than culture of work which Jarmo Kekäläinen is slave of. Like Leading One says: Jarmo Kekäläinen hasn't coached a single day and it shows.

Boring for the masses, yet in both footballs tactical discussion is allowed and even encouraged, celebrated. I do not think that the current media output is exactly exciting. Surely you could get more stories out of Tortorella or Bednar questioning their tactical choices.

Sure the discussion could get heavily tactics oriented but I don't think the casual fans would embrace it very well, not in Finland nor North America. Remember, the stuff Sihvonen is putting out there is not something that attracts the mainstream masses, even most hardcore hockey fans myself included find it boring and to some extent irrelevant. (To quote Jarmo Kekäläinen's response to the idiotic comment by the "Leading One" you brought up: "Sihvonen must remember there is always two teams playing and the opposition must be taken into consideration").
 

Double-Shift Lasse

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To my knowledge Leading One is the only source for this approach in the whole ice hockey world. If that isn't a merit for the Leading Analyst, what is?

Being the only one who thinks something doesn't necessarily make you the leading anything. You might be a genius, but then again you might be an idiot. Remember the famous word of David St. Hubbins.

Boring for the masses, yet in both footballs tactical discussion is allowed and even encouraged, celebrated. I do not think that the current media output is exactly exciting. Surely you could get more stories out of Tortorella or Bednar questioning their tactical choices.

I do wish there was more of this kind of coverage/analysis in the North American hockey media.
 

major major

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Feb 18, 2013
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You certainly won't find tactical sophistication on American hockey broadcasts. They're always geared towards the marginal hockey fan, who knows next to nothing. But please don't let that fool you into thinking that the fans and coaches and players generally aren't aware of how to think the game. You won't find it on tv, but if you ever sit down for a beer with a coach, it's there.
 

major major

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I do wish there was more of this kind of coverage/analysis in the North American hockey media.

I've found that the sportsnet broadcasts are surprisingly good, if you can stream them. I was skeptical when they took over hockey night in Canada this year, but they spend more time on the nuances and I've learned from it.
 

Tulipunaruusu*

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Apr 27, 2014
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But please don't let that fool you into thinking that the fans and coaches and players generally aren't aware of how to think the game.

Fans and players know nothing, jamon jamon.

Vancouver Olympics Finland's veterans overriding playbook and 16-year-old rebel general Puljujärvi's first WJC have shown what happens when players have the power. Nothing.

How many times do they draw on flip charts on Sportsnet broadcasts? Do they identify delayed starts? Just because they talk of tactics doesn't mean they understand or can expand that to their viewers.
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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Why does somebody need to draw out a play for you to prove they know the game? professional sports coaches like to disclose their playbook. Some teams in football pick up players from teams in their division so that they can get information about their former teams plays. Our coach has nothing to prove to the fans. He's been involved in the sport longer then some of us have been alive and has more Stanley Cup trophies won then your great one and all us board members combined. Why do they have to identify delayed starts? That does nothing for the fans. I'd rather hear them talk about past games and what players worked on and what Shelly talked about them with pre game and ect... fans don't want that stuff pointed out because the ones that care identify the in depth stuff themselves and the casual fans aren't even listening.
 

major major

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How many times do they draw on flip charts on Sportsnet broadcasts? Do they identify delayed starts? Just because they talk of tactics doesn't mean they understand or can expand that to their viewers.

They have a little rink in the studio where they act it out. Gimmicky but it comes down to the same thing.

And a delayed zone exit like Letangs is definitely the sort of thing they identify and talk about.
 

major major

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With the proper terminology?

Hockey doesn't have universal terminology from one coach to the next. Good luck trying to get us all to use "the proper terminology", which, let me guess, was developed by someone from "the proper region of Finland"?
 

Joe MacMillan

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It would be interesting to see how the ever-effective delayed zone exit would work against a team like Pittsburgh built on speed and heavy forecheck. San Jose is known to have an excellent breakout game and speedy forwards who can support the defense in zone exits, but even they are having major troubles with PIT and their speed and relentless forechecks (less so last night though).

Sihvonen says that the NHL hockey is tactically far inferior to Liiga. He's also known for having a hard-on for Finnish coaching while being a big critic of the way North American coaches run their systems (big surprise). Well I think most of that comes from the simple fact that these delayed zone exits that he is so fond of are practically non-existent in the NHL. And that is because the game is inherently so different on small ice vs. international ice that systems and tactics that work on one do not necessarily transition well onto the other.

There is a reason the NHL hockey is built on excessive dumb-ins, quick transitions, and fast breakouts. That's because on small ice it works more often than not. Teams do employ delayed exits on occasions but we see them only when the opposition lets them do that. We haven't certainly seen many of them during this final series and it certainly doesn't automatically mean the coaches involved are any worse than a random Finnish coach who is expert on it.
 

stevo61

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3. Sean Day. Sigh. Okay, he’s down 20 pounds at least from last summer. At 230 he still looks like a beer leaguer but it’s a start. It didn’t look like he bought into the idea that the combine was a chance to make a big impression.

He went from ordinary to very ordinary to below average at the stations, and seemed sort of nonchalant. You look at him and think: How does an unathletic kid possess plus-plus skating? This is one of life’s mysteries and the reason that someone will undertake Day as a challenge.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/10-takeaways-2016-nhl-scouting-combine/
 

WannabeFinn

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Sean Day.. what a disappointment.

Would anyone take him with our 3rd rounder (65th overall)? The upside is clearly there but some people might see it as throwing away a draft pick.
 
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stevo61

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Sean Day.. what a disappointment.

Would anyone take him with our 3rd rounder (65th overall)? The upside is clearly there but some people might see it as throwing away a draft pick.

sounds like Ryan Pilon 2.0. There was a time i thought it was worth it but Id wait until a later round
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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Sean Day.. what a disappointment.

Would anyone take him with our 3rd rounder (65th overall)? The upside is clearly there but some people might see it as throwing away a draft pick.

From what I have read there is a big drop in talent/projected success somewhere mid-2nd round. Depending on who else was available he might be worth a shot.
 

WannabeFinn

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From what I have read there is a big drop in talent/projected success somewhere mid-2nd round. Depending on who else was available he might be worth a shot.
Yeah, Day is an undeniable swing for the fences in the 2nd/3rd but I'm just so concerned about his work ethic. I'd rather not bring him into an environment like Lake Erie where things are actually looking up. Don't need anyone dragging the team down.
 

Jackets16

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Jan 7, 2005
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From what I have read there is a big drop in talent/projected success somewhere mid-2nd round. Depending on who else was available he might be worth a shot.

I'd pass. Maybe if we had extra picks, but not with the amount of picks we have.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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Yeah, Day is an undeniable swing for the fences in the 2nd/3rd but I'm just so concerned about his work ethic. I'd rather not bring him into an environment like Lake Erie where things are actually looking up. Don't need anyone dragging the team down.

I get your point but maybe the opposite happens and we have a gem out of the 3rd . I really think it depends on who else is available.
 
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