Speculation: 2016 Coyotes Off-Season Roster Discussion - Part 1

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Heldig

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Well I asked on the avalanche forum about the Duchene rumours. Wondered if Hanzal + Stone + choice of a couple of 7th, 20th, Perlini, Merkley,either Samuelsson would be enough to start a conversation. I got roasted.
 

Jakey53

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Well I asked on the avalanche forum about the Duchene rumours. Wondered if Hanzal + Stone + choice of a couple of 7th, 20th, Perlini, Merkley,either Samuelsson would be enough to start a conversation. I got roasted.

What did you expect? Fans are fans and always over rate their players. Duchene is great and all, but what you offered is more than what I would.
 

cobra427

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What did you expect? Fans are fans and always over rate their players. Duchene is great and all, but what you offered is more than what I would.

Colrado letting Statsney/ROR go has not worked out well for them. i doubt Duchene gets traded. I even think Barrie will stay. If Barrie goes, they will want a D man coming back of similar caliber. How does that happen with Barrie being difficult to sign? Every team wants to be in the playoffs next year, like San Jose, they missed the year before, and are in the finals this year. Nobody wants futures or spare parts.
 

RABBIT

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Well I asked on the avalanche forum about the Duchene rumours. Wondered if Hanzal + Stone + choice of a couple of 7th, 20th, Perlini, Merkley,either Samuelsson would be enough to start a conversation. I got roasted.

Wish i was there, i woulda had your back :box:

In all seriousness, if the Avs balk at a package like Hanzal, Stone, 7th overall, and 20th overall (or one of those picks, plus one of the prospects you offered) for Duchene, they're crazy. Hanzal alone holds significant value, add 2 1st round draft picks to that, 30 out 30 GM's take that deal. Even if you can't sign Hanzal after this upcoming season ends, you still get one full year of him to get him accumulated to your team and hopefully lure him to sign a contract, plus a solid young defenseman in Stone who would immediately step in to your top 4, PLUS 2 friggin first round picks (or a 1st round pick and good scoring prospect) to play with. It's not like the prospects that you offered them are busts, all of them are first round picks over the last 4 drafts. Each of them (besides maybe Hank) have the potential to turn into good scoring wingers in this league. I would actually be worried we gave up too much. I would pass, especially if it included Hanzal, Stone, and both firsts this year.

I think Colorado fans are forgetting New Jersey got one of the best young goalies in the league for 9th overall. They got their starter for years to come for one top ten pick. I would take Schneider any day over Duchene. Schneider holds more value, and they got him for 1 draft pick. The package you offered includes a top 10 pick, a top 4 defensemen, a responsible, beastly 2 way center, and their choice of either another 1st round pick or a good young prospect taken in the first round in recent years.

They're drunk. They'll be disappointed if they think they will get a much better deal than that.
 

rt

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Ducky, were you trying to get Duchene or Duchene and Barrie?

I'd happily fork over 7+20 for Barrie. I'd consider 7+Stone to be an overpayment on our part and would decline. If they added 40? Maybe. That's close.

So what about Duchene? I don't know how we make a Barrie deal square, add Hanzal and Duchene and get the value back in balance.

Let's say 7+Stone for Barrie+40 is fair.

Now add Hanzal and Duchene. First step is to ditch the 40 and add the 20. So that's Hanzal+Late 1st+Early 2nd for Duchene. Is that square? I don't see Avs fans biting on that value. So what's the missing piece? Is there something they'd accept that we can let go?

To COL:
Hanzal
Stone
7th ov
20th ov
????

To ARI:
Duchene
Barrie

I think we're still a big piece away. Let's add Perlini. About the biggest piece we toss into proposals from a prospect perspective. Does that entice Colorado? I still don't think so.

I just don't see a fit. They're not rebuilding. I don't see why they'd downgrade at C and downgrade at D just to get bigger, meaner, and pick up a bunch of "futures". I don't think that makes sense for them. Then again I just don't understand he rumors to begin with. Why trade Barrie? Why trade Duchene?
 

Heldig

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Thanks rabbitt.

Basically Avs fans said I offered nothing of value, "typical HF quantity over quality BS offer". "Where is the Domi, Duclair, Strome, Dvorak, OEL in the offer?"

I did not bother discussing further nor pointing out that what I had offered amounted to 4 or 5 1st round picks.

But I really think Duchene would be an awesome addition so I thought my offer - if he is on the market AND if they are looking to change the culture of the team - was a good starting point. I would have been willing to negotiate pieces added or subtracted on both sides. And as a bonus he is a killer D :)
 

Matias Maccete

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Thanks rabbitt.

Basically Avs fans said I offered nothing of value, "typical HF quantity over quality BS offer". "Where is the Domi, Duclair, Strome, Dvorak, OEL in the offer?"

I did not bother discussing further nor pointing out that what I had offered amounted to 4 or 5 1st round picks.

But I really think Duchene would be an awesome addition so I thought my offer - if he is on the market AND if they are looking to change the culture of the team - was a good starting point. I would have been willing to negotiate pieces added or subtracted on both sides. And as a bonus he is a killer D :)

I think the problem is like RT said they'd want more than futures. We'd be getting back Barrie who is a top 2 D, and Duchene who is at least a #2 C, if not a low end 1. Hanzal is awesome but he's injury prone, and stone is a significant downgrade from Barrie on D. IIRC one of their big needs is a scoring winger, that's why they traded for bods. For talent like Duchene and Barrie they'd want one of Domi or Duke, which I doubt we'd do. I'm not sure a trade for Barrie and Duchene is feasible.

If you were looking to acquire just Barrie, Hanzal + 7 and another pick is probably good value wise but again a lot of that is in futures. Hanzal and Stone for Barrie is probably a good deal both ways if we can sign Barrie to a long term deal.

Not sure if we'd want to use trade chips to acquire just Duchene, unless the price is cheap. Our biggest need is D by far so I'm not sure that's the best way to go.
 

Mosby

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Maybe there is a deal to be made with Columbus. They're really screwed for the expansion.

They have 4 forward NMCs they need to protect - Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson, Hartnell. They also need to protect Tyutin as he has a NMC.

Four other forwards they'd want to keep: Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, Wennberg
Four other defensemen they'd want to keep: Savard, Murray, Johnson, Jones (RFA)

They're either going to need make a trade, sacrifice a good player to Vegas, or do an expensive buyout of Clarkson, Hartnell, or Tyutin.

Even if you buy out Tyutin, you're still only protecting 6 of the 8 bolded players.
 

BlazingBlueAnt

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Maybe there is a deal to be made with Columbus. They're really screwed for the expansion.

They have 4 forward NMCs they need to protect - Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson, Hartnell. They also need to protect Tyutin as he has a NMC.

Four other forwards they'd want to keep: Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, Wennberg
Four other defensemen they'd want to keep: Savard, Murray, Johnson, Jones (RFA)

They're either going to need make a trade, sacrifice a good player to Vegas, or do an expensive buyout of Clarkson, Hartnell, or Tyutin.

Even if you buy out Tyutin, you're still only protecting 6 of the 8 bolded players.

LOL they gave Fedor Tyutin a NMC??? Jeeze, what a mess
 

Mosby

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In terms of expansion casualties, another option on D could be Chara. His name was involved in trade rumors earlier this year.

Have to imagine that the Bruins protect:
1) Krejci (NMC)
2) Bergeron (NMC)
3) Marchard (If re-signed, UFA next summer)
4) Beleskey
5) Spooner
6) Pastrnak
7) Krug
8) Seidenberg
9) McQuaid
10) Miller

I didn't include Loui Eriksson. UFA this summer, but if he re-signs obviously he's protected. Or if they Bruins add anything on D, like Yandle, obviously those additions are protected too.

Yes, Chara is 39 years old, but he'd really be coming as a short-term thing on LHD, especially if we're drafting one of Juolevi, Chychrun, or maybe Sergachev.

OEL - Murphy
Chara - xxxx
KConn - Stone

Play Chara for the rest of his contract until the newly drafted D is ready. Chara has 2 years left, cap hit of 7M but salary of 5M and 4M.

Note that Chara has a NMC so he'd have to waive to come to Arizona and we'd have to protect him next summer.

8 protections: 1) OEL 2) Murphy 3) Stone 4) Chara 5) Rieder 6) Duclair 7) 2RD Acquisition 8) Hanzal (if here) or Richardson/Martinook
 

rt

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We still have a budget and Chara is good enough to make Stone passable on the 2nd pair. So if have to guess it'd be more like

OEL-Murphy
Chara-Stone
KConn-Michalek
Dahlbeck

I have a hard time seeing Chara agree to a trade to Arizona, though. You have to imagine that we are on every no-go list of every player that has one, even if it's a 5 team limited. We're homeless.
 

BUX7PHX

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ESPN had a list of 5 teams most affected by expansion draft rules:

1. Chicago
2. Pittsburgh
3. Minnesota
4. Anaheim
5. Columbus

Reaching out to any one of those teams for deals would be smart, however the issue is that Pittsburgh and Anaheim will be picking after #20. Chicago doesn't have a first rounder (what D man could #20 get?). And Columbus is picking very high in the draft. Minnesota or Chicago are the most ideal teams to trade with, from the value standpoint.
 

Mosby

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What we can do this off-season hinges on this arena announcement. If players know they'll be playing in Phoenix/Tempe in a few years, we're good.

What's Chara worth in a trade? Dahlbeck and 53? Too little?

As for Columbus, I imagine that Jack Johnson is the most available from that group of Johnson/Savard/Murray/Jones. Columbus needs help at center. Hanzal? Is he willing to leave Arizona for Ohio and join a team that is actually worse than the Coyotes?
 

rt

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Somehow it has escaped my attention that Kyle Quincey is UFA and Ken Holland has mentioned he probably won't re-sign. Guy gets a bunch of EV and PK time and is a very mobile veteran player. Seems like a good fit as a partner for Stone. And is a clear upgrade on Grossmann because he can skate and pass.
 

Heldig

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Maybe there is a deal to be made with Columbus. They're really screwed for the expansion.

They have 4 forward NMCs they need to protect - Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson, Hartnell. They also need to protect Tyutin as he has a NMC.

Four other forwards they'd want to keep: Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, Wennberg
Four other defensemen they'd want to keep: Savard, Murray, Johnson, Jones (RFA)

They're either going to need make a trade, sacrifice a good player to Vegas, or do an expensive buyout of Clarkson, Hartnell, or Tyutin.

Even if you buy out Tyutin, you're still only protecting 6 of the 8 bolded players.

Holy :amazed:

They have over 26 million tied up in 5 forwards (Saad, Dubinsky, Clarkson, Foligno and Hartnell) until the end of the 2018/19 season.
 

BUX7PHX

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Somehow it has escaped my attention that Kyle Quincey is UFA and Ken Holland has mentioned he probably won't re-sign. Guy gets a bunch of EV and PK time and is a very mobile veteran player. Seems like a good fit as a partner for Stone. And is a clear upgrade on Grossmann because he can skate and pass.

Had mentioned him somewhere, maybe even this particular thread. Would be totally fine with getting Quincey on a two year, stop-gap type of deal. Still want one more D to get signed, but Quincey and a top 4 would be the right start.
 

Jakey53

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Somehow it has escaped my attention that Kyle Quincey is UFA and Ken Holland has mentioned he probably won't re-sign. Guy gets a bunch of EV and PK time and is a very mobile veteran player. Seems like a good fit as a partner for Stone. And is a clear upgrade on Grossmann because he can skate and pass.

Had mentioned him somewhere, maybe even this particular thread. Would be totally fine with getting Quincey on a two year, stop-gap type of deal. Still want one more D to get signed, but Quincey and a top 4 would be the right start.

I say a big NO on Quincey. I'm tired of dumpster diving. AL said there is money to spend so I want someone that fits into the long term plans. No more of this stop gap crap. Time to set our sights higher, much higher.
 

SniperHF

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I say a big NO on Quincey. I'm tired of dumpster diving. AL said there is money to spend so I want someone that fits into the long term plans. No more of this stop gap crap. Time to set our sights higher, much higher.

I think I'm the one who floated and Quincey and that was before the whole big shake up. Expecting they aim higher now.
 

Kaizen

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This team will never be able to avoid seeking exceptional value for the dollars it spends. Rarely do UFA's fit that need but Quincey might come closer than most. The market will determine whether there is any value to be had.
 

Opak

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Greetings Arizona, I come in peace.

Wanted to drop by and ask whether there was any interest for Simon Despres? If yes, then what would you offer for him? We're looking for ways to make some room in our budget, so we'd like to get a cheap, preferably young forward in return.

I could see the Ducks take an interest in Hanzal as a 1-year rental, don't know what his value would be though.

Maybe there is a deal to be made with Columbus. They're really screwed for the expansion.

They have 4 forward NMCs they need to protect - Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson, Hartnell. They also need to protect Tyutin as he has a NMC.

Four other forwards they'd want to keep: Saad, Atkinson, Jenner, Wennberg
Four other defensemen they'd want to keep: Savard, Murray, Johnson, Jones (RFA)

They're either going to need make a trade, sacrifice a good player to Vegas, or do an expensive buyout of Clarkson, Hartnell, or Tyutin.

Even if you buy out Tyutin, you're still only protecting 6 of the 8 bolded players.

I've wondered this myself, but after studying the Columbus roster for a while, it seems that Hartnell is the only Jackets player with a full NMC. The rest of the guys - Dubinsky, Foligno, Clarkson and Tyutin - have some kind of NMC/modified NTC clauses. Don't know if those count as full NMCs, so they may still be able to get off the hook.
 

Matias Maccete

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I think I'm the one who floated and Quincey and that was before the whole big shake up. Expecting they aim higher now.

Could always have Quincy and another better dman too right? I mean we need two, so it Quincy is the lesser of the acquisitions that's fine.

@ opak we're expecting a pretty decent return for hanzal, like close to yandle's. He's pretty damn valuable, especially to a playoff team. Not sure on depres, is he top 4 quality? What kind of return are you guys looking for? Meant on the yotes specifically, obviously domi and duke are out, rieder would be pricy, not sure who else you'd want.
 

SniperHF

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Could always have Quincy and another better dman too right? I mean we need two, so it Quincy is the lesser of the acquisitions that's fine.

If we unload some of our excess bottom pairing guys, sure. But I'm a bit more interested in seeing if KConn can keep up what he's doing so personally I have him penciled in on the third pairing over Dahlbeck or free agents. His abilities offensively can really make him stand out as an impact third pairing guy who can play second unit PP and fill in on higher pairings.
 
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