Prospect Info: 2016 88th Overall Pick | G Connor Ingram

[Felonious Python]

That is a weird quote from the agent unless it's actually something even worse and he's trying to spin it as just a be a pro thing.

They very easily could have fibbed to save Ingram's reputation from speculation (which only really goes negative). They decided to say it's his current work rate.

I kind of don't think they're lying.

Just as I kind of have a feel for how Drake will protect his players when questioned, I know that he's also big on character. If the problem were significantly worse, I'm not sure we'd take him, or that TB would have taken him at all. Earlier this season OSB traded it's leading scorer/alternate captain for some unknown violation(s). We got back future considerations. Getting him out of Orlando was more important than getting known assets for him.

 

[Felonious Python]

What's Robert Mueller doing?

 

[The Macho King]

What's Robert Mueller doing?

His schedule cleared up a bit.

 

[Felonious Python]

Today's ECHL transactions are out. Ingram has been officially assigned to Orlando and placed on the reserve. I'll get ahead of anyone thinking this means he's hurt. The IR and reserve list are different things. IR should be self-evident. The reserve is for a maximum of two scratched players. I believe guys normally make a bit less money while on reserve, so it tends to get spread around the team's scratches, even top players. I don't think less money would apply to NHL/AHL contracted guys (although the team still gets cap relief).

Clint Windsor is playing well right now and we've really got to figure out who that second goalie is.


lol

 

[PRZ45MD]

The completely unfounded theory is that he did something with a teammate's s/o. And rather than deal with it, they shipped him to let the team focus on playing and going into the playoffs.

 

[LightningStrikes]

The completely unfounded theory is that he did something with a teammate's s/o. And rather than deal with it, they shipped him to let the team focus on playing and going into the playoffs.

Deal with it how?

 

[Felonious Python]

If it's completely unfounded, it shouldn't have been posted. All it does is spread that theory (which I hadn't even heard of) and people are people so they'll forget the 'completely unfounded' part.

Repeat a lie enough times and it starts to look like the truth.

 

[DFC]

If it's completely unfounded, it shouldn't have been posted. All it does is spread that theory (which I hadn't even heard of) and people are people so they'll forget the 'completely unfounded' part.

You repeat a lie enough times and it starts to look like the truth.

Yeah, but the official story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. (That obviously doesn't make the other story true, and I'm not commenting on that, so much as the official story.) We've never heard rumors about Ingram having issues with coaches and whatnot, and then KABOOM, he's suddenly the problem child to end all problem children, banished, which by comparison makes the organization's relationship to Drouin and DeAngelo look just peachy.

The weird thing was the agent's comments. They didn't appear to be in the best interest of his client, and I think it was you who came up with the theory that they might be putting out this story to distract from something worse. You're right that we don't know what that would be. But this just doesn't feel like the case of a guy who's not putting in the work. You don't banish a guy like that from the locker room, saying everyone's "better off."

 

[Felonious Python]

Yeah, but the official story doesn't make a whole lot of sense. (That obviously doesn't make the other story true, and I'm not commenting on that, so much as the official story.) We've never heard rumors about Ingram having issues with coaches and whatnot, and then KABOOM, he's suddenly the problem child to end all problem children, banished, which by comparison makes the organization's relationship to Drouin and DeAngelo look just peachy.

The weird thing was the agent's comments. They didn't appear to be in the best interest of his client, and I think it was you who came up with the theory that they might be putting out this story to distract from something worse. You're right that we don't know what that would be. But this just doesn't feel like the case of a guy who's not putting in the work. You don't banish a guy like that from the locker room, saying everyone's "better off."

The Lightning don't leak though. Ingram is getting compared to DeAngelo or Drouin, but those were top NHL prospects. Ingram projects to be an NHL backup. The NA hockey media at large, who don't need to worry about access, are not concerned with this story. Ingram is not a top client of his agent either since he doesn't completely know what's going on all the time.

I would say that the agent's comment is in the best long-term interest of his client. He knows the score, and it won't be a secret when it comes time to negotiate a future deal, either with the Lightning or another team. If he gives Ingram any doubt that the coaches are wrong about this, a potential unfulfilled on his current course will hinder both of their earnings.

edit: I think this whole ordeal is also showing how much we expect to be lied to.

 

[DFC]

The Lightning don't leak though. Ingram is getting compared to DeAngelo or Drouin, but those were top NHL prospects. Ingram projects to be an NHL backup. The NA hockey media at large, who don't need to worry about access, are not concerned with this story. Ingram is not a top client of his agent either since he doesn't completely know what's going on all the time.

I would say that the agent's comment is in the best long-term interest of his client. He knows the score, and it won't be a secret when it comes time to negotiate a future deal, either with the Lightning or another team. If he gives Ingram any doubt that the coaches are wrong about this, a potential unfulfilled on his current course will hinder both of their earnings.

edit: I think this whole ordeal is also showing how much we expect to be lied to.

I would agree if not for the comment that "everyone is better off" if Ingram doesn't return to the Crunch. That sounds like a serious conflict, one well beyond anything we saw with Drouin or DeAngelo. In DeAngelo's case we saw mysterious healthy scratches; in Drouin's, it was just a bunch of rumors until it blew up with Drouin making the trade request public. In neither case was the player removed from the dressing room. Even if Ingram is a much, much lesser valued prospect, I don't see us tarnishing an asset like this unless we have to.

I mean, the work ethic rumor tarnishes it enough, and maybe that IS the full extent of the story. But if it is, we've seen a lot of kids with work ethic issues over the years--there's at least one kid on the Crunch right now who had those kinds of rumors in junior (Yan, with his apparent refusal to learn the D side of the game)--but this is the first instance I can ever recall where a guy was more/less swept out of sight/out of mind for an issue of work ethic. Especially a kid who was putting up very good numbers in his role. (You would know a lot better than I how well he actually played, I think. I'm just going by sheer numbers.)

 

[Felonious Python]

I would agree if not for the comment that "everyone is better off" if Ingram doesn't return to the Crunch. That sounds like a serious conflict, one well beyond anything we saw with Drouin or DeAngelo. In DeAngelo's case we saw mysterious healthy scratches; in Drouin's, it was just a bunch of rumors until it blew up with Drouin making the trade request public. In neither case was the player removed from the dressing room. Even if Ingram is a much, much lesser valued prospect, I don't see us tarnishing an asset like this unless we have to.

I mean, the work ethic rumor tarnishes it enough, and maybe that IS the full extent of the story. But if it is, we've seen a lot of kids with work ethic issues over the years--there's at least one kid on the Crunch right now who had those kinds of rumors in junior (Yan, with his apparent refusal to learn the D side of the game)--but this is the first instance I can ever recall where a guy was more/less swept out of sight/out of mind for an issue of work ethic. Especially a kid who was putting up very good numbers in his role. (You would know a lot better than I how well he actually played, I think. I'm just going by sheer numbers.)

directly from syracuse.com article

BriseBois said he intended to go to St. Louis on Friday but instead swung through Syracuse to try to clear the air with Ingram. Without going into further details, BriseBois said it became apparent by the end of that meeting that it would be better off for everyone if Ingram returned to the Solar Bears for the rest of the season.

'be better off for everyone' is not given as a direct JBB quote (where tone and context also gets lost) and could have been rewritten to give it a different feel.

'the most beneficial decision to maximize goalie development at all levels of the organization (and address the goalie need in Orlando)', 'the best place for Ingram to soak up loads of games over the remaining weeks/months of this season for his long-term potential', etc.

 

[DFC]

directly from syracuse.com article


'be better off for everyone' is not given as a direct JBB quote (where tone and context also gets lost) and could have been rewritten to give it a different feel.

'the most beneficial decision to maximize goalie development at all levels of the organization (and address the goalie need in Orlando)', 'the best place for Ingram to soak up loads of games over the remaining weeks/months of this season for his long-term potential', etc.

Agreed, but still, there's a certain sentiment involved in the "for everyone," which makes it hard to believe that somehow this relationship hasn't been fractured on both sides. I don't think a reporter, even if not giving a direct quote, would be sloppy enough to leave that impression if it wasn't accurate.

Might be something as simple as Ingram believing he should be starting, and now he and Pasquale can't co-exist. Then again, that would be better than a work ethic issue.

This just seems SOOOO extreme for a work ethic issue. JBB has essentially banished him, thus killing his trade value, and, apparently, leaving Syracuse with a lesser talent in the back-up role. Even with Ingram as a C prospect, that's terrible asset management unless something else is going on that makes it unavoidable.

 

[Felonious Python]

Agreed, but still, there's a certain sentiment involved in the "for everyone," which makes it hard to believe that somehow this relationship hasn't been fractured on both sides. I don't think a reporter, even if not giving a direct quote, would be sloppy enough to leave that impression if it wasn't accurate.

Might be something as simple as Ingram believing he should be starting, and now he and Pasquale can't co-exist. Then again, that would be better than a work ethic issue.

This just seems SOOOO extreme for a work ethic issue. JBB has essentially banished him, thus killing his trade value, and, apparently, leaving Syracuse with a lesser talent in the back-up role. Even with Ingram as a C prospect, that's terrible asset management unless something else is going on that makes it unavoidable.

I would probably agree other than goaltending is sort of it's own thing with very limited spaces. If he were a skater, this would throw way more red flags up, IMO.

It's one of those things. If you're roughly in the 62 best goalies, you're in the NHL.
If you're in the next 60 best, you're in the AHL.
If you're in the next 54 best, you're in the ECHL. If you're the worst goalie in the ECHL, you're 176th in North America.

The 176th highest paid NHL player is Sami Vatanen at $5 million (actual 2018-2019 salary)

 

[Felonious Python]

(about Clint Windsor)

“He’s won us some games,” Solar Bears coach Drake Berehowsky said Tuesday, “so he gets the start until proven otherwise.”

Reserve Solar Bears goalkeeper Clint Windsor grateful for chance to help Orlando playoff push

edit: a contextually interesting quote to read too much into. Drake doesn't really use the media to send 'read between the lines' messages.

“He’s got a great record; his save percentage is awesome,” Berehowsky said. “You see him in practice, [you notice] he competes hard and you know it can carry over into a game.”

 

[These Are The Days]

Agreed, but still, there's a certain sentiment involved in the "for everyone," which makes it hard to believe that somehow this relationship hasn't been fractured on both sides. I don't think a reporter, even if not giving a direct quote, would be sloppy enough to leave that impression if it wasn't accurate.

Might be something as simple as Ingram believing he should be starting, and now he and Pasquale can't co-exist. Then again, that would be better than a work ethic issue.

This just seems SOOOO extreme for a work ethic issue. JBB has essentially banished him, thus killing his trade value, and, apparently, leaving Syracuse with a lesser talent in the back-up role. Even with Ingram as a C prospect, that's terrible asset management unless something else is going on that makes it unavoidable.

I actually felt the same way about this. It does seem so extreme. It makes me wonder who was doing what during the Drouin saga if we are to assume JBB was making decisions too as Yzermans right hand man. More than likely he had little at all to do with it and handled Syracuse as was his job but I know he had to have seen it play out. I really hope it just turns out Ingram did something like rebuke the Crunch and coaching staff and demonstrably showed he wants out and it isn't out of frustration or anything that players say and do that's in moments that you handle behind closed doors and everyone just moves on

 

[Felonious Python]

btw,

Doesn't sound good. Don't be surprised if he has a sub .900 GAA with Orlando.

7 gp, 3.63 GAA, .893 sv%

 

[Werewolf]

btw,


7 gp, 3.63 GAA, .893 sv%

Paywall.

 

[God King Fudge]

I am so super interested to see how this plays out. I mean he's gotta be gone, but even with Drouin who went as far as sitting out, they stuck with him and made him play.

To stick this kid on the bench (is he even dressing?) on the ECHL, it seems crazy.

 

[Felonious Python]

Paywall.

That's strange. It wasn't behind one yesterday.

There weren't any new revalations, just a recap of events.

@Post Karl Malone, he did dress for the last game vs Atlanta but was the backup goalie.

This wouldn't be a bad time for Frantz Jean to come over to Orlando with the lull in the Lightning game schedule and OSB sort of shaky in goal. (edit: just remembered the boys are on the road, so maybe not)

 

[DFC]

I don't see any way it's not something between Ingram and at least one teammate or coach. Probably more than one. They wanted him out of the lockerroom. We've never seen that before, and it's not like we're a stranger to bad attitudes.

 

[Felonious Python]

Ingram got pulled last night early in the 2nd period. He went 12 for 14. It was more of a move to try and get the guys going. It only kind of worked.

The Bears are showing some immaturity. They've got to get 2 pts to secure a playoff spot, but have lost the last two games, including last night to last place Greenville. Once it got down to the final 3-4 minutes, they started playing how they should.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Ingram got pulled last night early in the 2nd period. He went 12 for 14. It was more of a move to try and get the guys going. It only kind of worked.

The Bears are showing some immaturity. They've got to get 2 pts to secure a playoff spot, but have lost the last two games, including last night to last place Greenville. Once it got down to the final 3-4 minutes, they started playing how they should.

Ingram shows up and all of a sudden they are showing immaturity, coincidence? I think not.

 

[Felonious Python]

Ingram shows up and all of a sudden they are showing immaturity, coincidence? I think not.

Eh...I would agree that the team has progressively gotten worse since he's gotten to Orlando, but that's by virtue of not having Martin Ouellette.

Akim Aliu, one of the older guys probably brought some sense to the young guys but he's got a PTO with Tucson. Ouellette was also one of those guys it seems at 27 years old. Shaq, also 27, is apparently injured, and relatively new to the team still. They can say the right stuff off the ice, but they need voices on the bench and performances on the ice it seems. Especially for the forward group.

They just got Kuqali, 27, a D-man off IR last game, and he seems like he has some leadership qualities, so that's something.

The Bears schedule is also so busy now, it's reasonable that the Bears have only one or even no full on-ice practices left the rest of the regular season (ends April 7th) although I can bet that Drake and Baier will want to have plenty of video sessions.

There should be a gap between regular season and playoffs for both the Lightning and Bears where Frantz Jean can maybe drive over. We've got two (of our three) goalies below .900 now. It's not entirely their fault, but things need correcting. I know my confidence is not sky high, regardless of numbers.

Could Ouellette act as a goalie consultant? He can't skate so soon after surgery, but he could give advice...

 

[Felonious Python]

*sigh* not playoffs. OSB is playing SC in the first round. This was in front of an announced sellout crowd.

Ingram has turned up the heat over the last number of games and is playing really well now.

 

[brakeyawself]

He’s having a terrific AHL season. Seems like going to Nashville might have been the best thing for him. Rinne is now 37, Saros has not looked like a future starting keeper. Is Ingram now the “future” starting goalie for the Preds?

Or at least until he regresses or someone better shows up. But still just 22, Ingram is dominating in the AHL. He’s looked terrific and seems like he will be NHL ready by next season. Seems like good timing on his part.

Anyway, he doesn’t get talked about much. Prior to this season, I could see why. But with this seasons play he really should be on the radar as far as prospect goalies go.