2015 ReDraft as per HFBoards

  1. Sabresruletheschool Registered User

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    No, I merely said if this is how Eichel is going to play, meaning a solid 2 way center that is magic with the puck, then he's the clear cut #2 behind McDavid. Hell, he was still the #2 guy even when everyone was questioning his defensive ability. Now he's pulling away from the rest of field.

    And how do you think players get drafted? There abilities are projected over the next 10ish years. Otherwise a team wouldn't need scouts right? They'd just pick players based on how good thier hair looks or something.

    Please tell me the "select data" I used? I mean wtf are you even taking about?
     
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  2. Nosskire ot Elgaeb M2Bizzle

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    Subject to change (even within the season) top 15

    1 Mcdavid

    2 Jeichel

    3 Barzal
    4 Aho
    5 Rantanen
    6 Marner

    7 Chabot

    8 Werenski
    9 Provorov
    10 Konency
    11 Connor
    12 Boeser

    13 Strome
    14 Dunn
    15 Meier

    HM Carlo Debrusk Hanifin

    That 3-6 group changes for me quite a bit, even by next month wouldnt suprise me to reverse them. All just so good and imo so close

    I dropped Boeser from where i had him before, maybe becasue hes a Canuck and Ive been very critical of him recently, but I almost wanted to drop him a tear as well. His 29 pts in 32 games this season is misleading. Not that hes leaching pts off Miller and Pettersson, just he has so much more to offer and he seems lazy or something and could end up hurting him long term if he doesnt challenge himself more

    I think Dunn continues to rise with his impressive play. Likewise nice to see Strome having another very good season and get closer to where was drafted tho will probably never be the third best in this deep draft
     
  3. dortt Registered User

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    If the past 16 games is how Eich is going to play, he's number 1.

    BIG (and I mean BIG if, though)
     
  4. dortt Registered User

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    How much have you watched Eichel play? Or have you only relied on paper stats the past few years?
     
  5. 57special HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    As a fan of neither team, I don't say how you can think that Barzal is clearly better than Aho. Barzal is very slick, but Aho scores more goals, and wins more FO's. They are a wash, basically. I think i might pick Aho if i had to choose, but i don't feel strongly about it.
     
  6. Unsustainable Bunch of Jerks

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    he’s 3rd in goals scored for the 2015 class and didn’t play his first year like McD and Jack.
     
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  7. Raistlin1022 Registered User

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    Wow... You're seriously underselling Boeser. He is being scrutinized to death in the Vancouver market, but Pettersson would not be as successful as he is without the high hockey IQ of Boeser. I just think he is forgetting that he's the trigger man on the PP and is doing too much fancy playmaking. He belongs in that tier 2, or at least with Chabot.
     
  8. Riseonfire #unsustainable

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    That is exactly my criticism.

    Any of the other guys ( top 5 after McD) have all had moments in their career where you could say THAT EXACT SAME THING!!!

    It's massive recency bias and the 'select data' i was referring to.
     
  9. nbwingsfan Registered User

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    No....
     
  10. Cotton Registered User

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    I don't care that Eichel would go 2nd, it makes sense why he would, but Eichel isn't even close to being as complete a player as Marner is.

    Your post reads of butthurt from previous arguments and half truths and misunderstandings about player situations and linemate quality. Fact is this is the only season since Marner joined the league Eichel looks like he will outscore him. Every previous season it was Mitch>, and that's Mitch with vastly less ice-time and PP minutes, that's also Mitch with less offensive zone starts.

    He didn't make the NHL right out of the draft because unlike Eichel he was about 158lbs and built like a 12 year old (think Jack Hughes) he didn't look like he could handle the physicality, or maybe it was they didn't want him around a losing atmosphere and weren't hard up to sell seats like Buffalo. Regardless, when he did make the league his C was Tyler Bozak, the following season it was Bozak, Gauthier and finally Kadri. That's a 3rd, 4th and 2/3 C in which Marner helped each reach career highs while outscoring Eichel who was being baby fed minutes and opportunity with the likes of Ryan O'Reilly. Marner finished the year going over p/pg in the post season next to Bozak.

    You see Babs didn't like to play Marner with Matthews or Nylander, not even on the PP. In their first 3 years they didn't see the ice together more than a handful of shifts.

    Last season Mitch gets Tavares, ends up with 94pts and 14th in Selke votes, because unlike Eichel he actually has a complete game, kills penalties, blocks shots intentionally, and outside of Mark Stone is the best at stripping pucks in the league.

    Eichel is good, but complete he is not.


    Otherwise the only thing that's really out of whack is that Provorov should easily be well ahead of Werenski. Complete D > offensive D, last years Norris should of shown that.
     
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  11. TheJackAttack Crawlin W/Dahlin

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    I stopped reading at Marner is a more complete player then Eichel.

    You obviously haven’t watched Eichel in the last two seasons. Eichels been one of the best defensive forwards in the league amongst the top scorers. Ask anyone because apparently you haven’t been paying attention he’s only been a PLUS 19 in the past sixteen games. He actually has the second highest plus minus on team that isn’t even that good and still allows a a lot of goals.

    Eichel has completely changed his game and has drawn penalties in unbelievable ways, skated around teams for fun, first in end to end rushes first in offensive zone possession, first in even strength goals, he’s a wizard.

    It’s laughable “Eichel gets fed minutes with the likes of Ryan o really” yeah fed minutes having to anchor a team at such a young age that has no system, goaltending, defense or offensive depth....such an easy task for any kid in the game.

    It’s laughable you brought up ROR ...you mean the player who Eichel outscored on the same team every time he was there even at the ages of 18,19,20 and when he missed over two months of the season, ROR wasn’t the same player in buffalo and even with him we were 31st in the standings and in goals so don’t think oh I can use that against Eichel now! Perfect. Your desperation is starting to show.

    Fact is Marner gained twenty points when Tavares came while tavares gained four. Tavares did equally as good without Marner on the island with anders Lee who was a two one forty goal scorer with JT and now isn’t proving him own much he helps players. Marner was great last year, I get it because I actually watch him u like you and jack but go make a poll if your so sure. I’d love to see the results from everyone else who’s watching jack be a complete forward.

    No one thinks Marner is better then Eichel, man. Even your god Matthews hasn’t been better at one thing then Eichel this year. While Eichel has been amazing defensively even leaf fans are ripping Matthews for his pointless -3 performances night after night a few weeks ago. At the end of the day it’s rather cute that you had to go back and rely only have the defensive reputation to bash Eichel since he’s elite everywhere else .but it gets better because in the past two years he’s been a great defensive forward.

    He’s been one of the best two way forwards this season amongst the top scorers! Ever since taking the C, something Marner wouldn’t have, he’s a winger a small winger who got another year to develop put in a great role, Jack is a center with more responsibility and got fed to the wolves but still came out in a full piece on the other side. I get the frustration though, it’s gotta suck when your team pays four players forty million and not one player is better then jack Eichel. But then again only a few are, and one of them ain’t Mitchell. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  12. Neutral Hockey Fan Registered User

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    How in the world does Marner make more money than Eichel? And for less term?!?! What did the leafs RFA’s have on dubass, naked pictures or inappropriate text message or something?
     
  13. TheJackAttack Crawlin W/Dahlin

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    It’s a joke.

    Dumb-as built the team like he was playing NHL 20. Signed seven guys for 700k in one day. Sign all your top players and pay them tons of money because it’s not your real money anyway. (Don’t Carr about backup goalies) or grit, just make sure you got your superstars. It’s ridiculous that he has a job as a GM.

    That smirk he makes when the camera zoomed in on him after tavares got a point in his first game in the pre flipping season was funny. Such a genius Kyle.
     
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  14. seagull keow keow

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    Yeah, I don't think so. How many of those players averaged 1.93 PPG over a 16 game period as their team's only player of their calibre?

    Eichel isn't going to play his career at 1.93 ppg, that's obvious, but he's turning into a player who's as important to the Sabres as Crosby is to the Penguins (No, he's not on the same level as Crosby.) He plays when the game is on the line, he plays when we're down goals in the last minute. He back checks, and doesn't skirt on his defensive responsibilities. He leads by example and he's also growing into one heck of a captain. He's become a complete 200-ft player and he's playing on another level this year. If he continues to play like that, he'll become the Sabres version of Steve Yzerman.
     
  15. Chips Registered User

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    Good list. I’m not the least bit mad about it because his sample is so small so far, but if there were another redraft in a few years Ilya Samsonov (G) may very well be much higher.


    Again, small sample so far, but he was considered one of the top goalies around his age before a rough start in NA last year, but more and more I think Caps fans are confident he should and will be our main goalie after this season.

    He’s looked a little shakey earlier, but even then he was making big saves, and along with his solid numbers is the fact a few of the goals he did allow so far were flukey.
     
  16. Cotton Registered User

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    I reciprocated and didn't read past "Eichels been one of the best defensive forwards.." which is nonsense.

    Eichel had zero Selke votes last year for being "one of the best defensive forward". He had a -38 takeaway ratio and 62.8% OZone starts without killing penalties. He is not a complete player.

    Some people actually buy in to the nonsense their home broadcasts spews out, I get it, and I get how slight improvements in effort can be a love potion to the fanboy mind, you got drunk off of seeing Jack back check with a little consistency and now think he's Mark Stone, cool. But those wooden nickles you're trying to sell have no buyers.
     
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  17. OKOptimistic Registered User

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    Wow this draft year was loaded.
     
  18. Riseonfire #unsustainable

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    I mean, I'm not going to rip through 3 seasons of data just to prove you wrong, but can we take a 16 game sample from Barzal's rookie season where he was having multiple 5 point nights and just assume that play will extend for the rest of his career?

    The idea is just so crazy. You can argue Eichel is a clear cut #2 (he's not), but get rid of the draft and recency bias.
     
  19. seagull keow keow

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    Eichel's point-per-game progression form his rookie year to the present:

    Year 1 (81 games): 0.69
    Year 2 (61 games): 0.93
    Year 3 (67 games): 0.96
    Year 4 (77 games): 1.05
    Year 5 (34 games): 1.41

    Eichel has been improving every year since he entered the league. You're argument that his streak is similar to Barzal's is unrealistic since the player and example you chose was during Barzal's rookie year, when he was playing with/behind John Tavares. Barzal's numbers have normalized since Tavares left and he's had to shoulder the responsibility of being the #1 Center for his team. Barzal's career best numbers have come during his rookie year, and he's yet to match those totals since. That isn't the case with Eichel, he's improved every year despite being the #1 Center, and he's improved as his responsibilities have increased.

    This is a case of a player improving so much beyond their previous performance that he's going to be seen as a flash in the pan, until he's not, because past performance can't always predict future performance. That's how it is with stocks, and that's how it is with players when they develop beyond the level that past statistics say they should be playing at.

    Here's a better example player:

    Year 1 (80 games): 1.09
    Year 2 (80 games): 1.11
    Year 3 (51 games): 0.82
    Year 4 (80 games): 1.13
    Year 5 (64 games): 1.59
    Year 6 (80 games): 1.94

    Past statistics wouldn't have predicted that the above player would score at a 1.59 point-per-game rate in his fifth season, but he did, and it didn't become the norm until the next season when he scored at an even higher rate. The above player is Steve Yzerman.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  20. Absolut Registered User

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    I agree. It's a wash - and a matter of personal preference. I enjoy watching Barzal, but would certainly prefer to have Aho on the Rangers.
     
  21. StoneHands Registered User

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    I know I might sound crazy but I have a hunch that he doesn't go the rest of his career with an 18.9% on ice shooting percentage. If you or anyone can convince me why goalies are going to have an .821 SV% while he's on the ice for the next decade, I will gladly eat crow.
     
  22. lomiller1 Registered User

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    No, it’s just a really deep draft.
    If anything he has Chabot to high rather then Boeser to low.
     
  23. Riseonfire #unsustainable

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    I mean, one team is committed to winning and one is....kindofwhatever.

    I notice you make no mention of Barzal learning responsibility and defense during year 2. Instead you just say JT left so Barzal sucks now which is not accurate.

    Defensively, I take Barzal over Eichel.

    Our coaches forces defense first, yours does not. If Barzal played on a offensive 1st team hed be a 100 point player.

    Either way, let's agree to disagree. See ya in the playoffs, maybe.
     
  24. thestonedkoala Everyone! PANIC!

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    Huh? Dermott and Cernac? Really? Why? I didn't think I would have to type it before, but Kaprizov is underrated.
     
  25. snowkiddin Registered User

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    nice amount of NHL games he has, eh
     

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