2015 Re-Draft, you have the 3rd pick overall

LordNeverLose

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Jul 2, 2015
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This is where I am.

Barzal was sheltered and playing in an all out offense system with no D. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s already hit a career high but we will see. He’s got the skills. For now and to me for the future it has to be Provorov.
The Islanders did not play an "all out offense system"

I'm so sick of people saying this. It's clear if you watched them they weren't playing pond hockey or anything. They just had a shit defense and even worse defensive scheme.
 

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
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I was talking about the odds of him scoring 55 points or less while getting 1C are very low. I'm not sure where the 85-90 is even part of what I was referring to?

Fair enough, I said 85-90 because I thought you were saying that now that he's getting these so called "cushy" minutes he would not only keep his point pace but improve on it. (Since he got 85) He very well could but I went back and re-read your post and it's all good, I must of misunderstood.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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I think people still put Marner above Rantanen because they look at context, he plays with worse line mates(bozak was his center for a year in a half) and he gets way less pp time than Rantanen. And Marner is the best player on the pp in the entire nhl.

I’d be curious to see the numbers Marner puts up with Mackinnion.

Marner took off when he put on a line with a higher end center, kadri.


Marner Still hasn't done anything close to what Rantanen or Barzal has done.


You dont put up 84 points in your sophomore season riding off the coattails of someone else. Rantanen created a tonne of his chances and produced a lot of his points on his own accord.



Until Marner actually goes out and has a season like what Barzal and Rantanen did he really shouldn't be in this conversation and doesn't appear to be for anyone other then Leafs fans.


It's the same story with Matthews. They both might have the upside to be PPG, 80+ point forwards. But neither one of them have actually went and did it yet. They cant be compared to or grouped in with guys that have already accomplished this stuff until they actually do it. That seems to be the disconnect from reality a lot of Leafs fans have with your good young players.
 

TheKingPin

Registered User
Nov 16, 2005
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The Islanders did not play an "all out offense system"

I'm so sick of people saying this. It's clear if you watched them they weren't playing pond hockey or anything. They just had a **** defense and even worse defensive scheme.

They had to plan an nhl version of pond hockey. No nhl team is just going to play up the whole time. This is as close as it gets. Either way, playing down and having to score a lot to win was what I was referring to. Two near 85 pt centers. Lee with 40 goals. Bailey with over 70 pts. Even Eberle scored 25 goals.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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They had to plan an nhl version of pond hockey. No nhl team is just going to play up the whole time. This is as close as it gets. Either way, playing down and having to score a lot to win was what I was referring to. Two near 85 pt centers. Lee with 40 goals. Bailey with over 70 pts. Even Eberle scored 25 goals.

I think you're confusing "really bad at defense" with "played an offensive system".
 

DudeWhereIsMakar

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Apr 25, 2014
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If we were having this conversation in 2015, at that draft I still would've taken Barzal 3rd overall; Werenski if I was in desperate need of D.
Barzal
Werenski
Boeser
Provorov
Marner

Marner has super sick skill, but there's something about him that's always bothered me but I could never put my finger to it.
 

HyPnOtiK

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Aug 21, 2007
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If we were having this conversation in 2015, at that draft I still would've taken Barzal 3rd overall; Werenski if I was in desperate need of D.
Barzal
Werenski
Boeser
Provorov
Marner

Marner has super sick skill, but there's something about him that's always bothered me but I could never put my finger to it.
Werenski does nothing better than Provorov
 

The Mars Volchenkov

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Mar 31, 2002
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Provorov. Guy is a monster.

The amount of people writing off Rantanen as a product of MacKinnon is incredible. MacKinnon wasn’t even a PPG player before this year. Rantanen’s skill and work down low helped a lot. Don’t act like MacK didn’t get a ton of help from Mikko as well. PPG 6’5 wingers don’t exactly grow on trees.
 

Puckstuff

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May 12, 2010
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This thread must destroy yotes fans. It may go down as the best drat class of the decade. Better then 2006

1. McDavid
2. Eichel -
3. Barzal/Provorov
4. Barzal Provroov
5. Marner
6. Werenski
7. Rantanen
8. Aho
9. Boeser
10. Hanifin


Other strong players: Connor, Zacha, Chabot , Dermott, Konency, Beauvillier, Strome, Debrusk
 
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vippe

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Mar 18, 2008
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It's crazy when Aho (the 9th rated player in my top 10 list) could easily go 2nd overall in 2017 or maybe even 1st.

I think I have Aho higher than that, but yeah, the draft is extremely stacked compared to 2017 as of right now.
With that said, just a year or two ago (where 2017 is right now) we didnt look as high on the 2015 drag as we do now so there's still hope for 2017 ;)
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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This thread must destroy yotes fans. It may go down as the best drat class of the decade. Better then 2006

1. McDavid
2. Eichel -
3. Barzal/Provorov
4. Barzal Provroov
5. Marner
6. Werenski
7. Rantanen
8. Aho
9. Boeser
10. Hanifin


Other strong players: Connor, Zacha, Chabot , Dermott, Konency, Beauvillier, Strome, Debrusk

Obviously too early to tell for certain, but there's something about Strome I've never really liked. Part of it is I just don't know if his skating will allow him to translate his junior success to the NHL level.
 

mja

Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Jan 7, 2005
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This idea that Barzal's going to suffer because he's not going to be "sheltered" anymore as the 2C is just plain goofy. Let me ask you guys this: how many 2Cs took advantage of being "sheltered" to score 85 points last season? Or the season before? Or any season in the last decade?

2Cs don't go around scoring 85 points.

Dude's just a special player. He's electric. And I say that as a fan of a divisional rival.
 

tucker3434

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I think people still put Marner above Rantanen because they look at context, he plays with worse line mates(bozak was his center for a year in a half) and he gets way less pp time than Rantanen. And Marner is the best player on the pp in the entire nhl.

I’d be curious to see the numbers Marner puts up with Mackinnion.

Marner took off when he put on a line with a higher end center, kadri.

I think I’d counter that with Landeskog’s production, which was just kinda average. MacKinnon is a special player, clearly the best on the Avs by no small margin, but I don’t think just playing on his line is an automatic 30 point jump or anything insane like that. Most guys in the NHL playing on a line with someone in MacKinnon’s tier still aren’t hitting ppg. Plus, Rantanen deserves some credit for the synergy of that line.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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Werenski does nothing better than Provorov
As a Flyers fan, I feel that's not true. I think he is naturally a better PP guy than Provy is. And yes I know Provy plays with the 2nd unit, but I think Werenski is better at it regardless. These 2 guys will flip flop years of who is better IMO. Next year, it could be Werenski.

Side note on Marner. Near draft day, many Flyers fans, including myself, saw Marner as having Giroux like upside. I still do. It won't surprise me at all to see him jump up to an 80+ point guy this coming year. He just needs to do it as others already have.
 

The Abusement Park

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Track record has to do with sustainability and likelihood of repeatability. That plays into predicting future outcomes and the likelihood of it.

Rantanen doesn’t have a track record? Rantanen came to N America and in his first season here had one of the best seasons ever in the AHL as a rookie on a horrible team. Then the year after that, on one of the worst teams in nhl history put up 20 goals as NHL rookie. There’s a pretty solid track record there I’d say.
 

threeVo

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Jan 5, 2010
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So when Barzal has 60 points this year and Eichel has 80+ can we go back to saying he was the 2nd best player in the draft?
 

Strait2thecup

Registered User
Sep 1, 2016
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They had to plan an nhl version of pond hockey. No nhl team is just going to play up the whole time. This is as close as it gets. Either way, playing down and having to score a lot to win was what I was referring to. Two near 85 pt centers. Lee with 40 goals. Bailey with over 70 pts. Even Eberle scored 25 goals.

and your credibility goes out the door via the bolded

Tavares scoring 85 points: completely normal
Lee had 34 goals the prior season
Eberle scoring 25 goals is completely normal
Bailey with 70 points is not

Whats your point?
 
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Axel574

Registered User
Dec 9, 2015
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Marner will be seen as better within a few weeks of the new season. 61 and 69 points in his first 2 seasons without a full year in a top 6 role.
I've said it before, 69 points with 16:28 of TOI, only Laine put up that type of production with that little TOI. Now he's playing with Tavares.
IMO, He's a contender for the Art Ross this season.

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