2015 NHL Draft Thread II (6/26-6/27)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Odd, the video not only didn't load the first time, it didn't even show that there was a video.

I just figured you'd lost your mind.

Still seems likely.

 

[Cash for Nash]

Giving up 8th, Rychel, and 2016 1st is overkill for Hanifin. Would rather draft Provorov/Werenski and trade Rychel and/or the 2016 1st for another top 4 D.

Probably is overkill. I'd do two of the pieces though if hannifin was the guy the staff thought was a cut above.

 

[pete goegan]

I just figured you'd lost your mind.

A reasonable conclusion to be drawn, given the available evidence.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A reasonable conclusion to be drawn, given the available evidence.

Check out my post above.

#winsagain

 

[Hello Johnny]

Giving up 8th, Rychel, and 2016 1st is overkill for Hanifin. Would rather draft Provorov/Werenski and trade Rychel and/or the 2016 1st for another top 4 D.

I completely understand this line of thinking. I obviously think Hanifin is going to be elite, whereas Provorov and Werenski, to me, will be in the tier or two below when in their primes. The difference, IMO, is significant. Rychel won't be a very special player. Useful, certainly, but nothing you couldn't acquire with a good old fashioned "hockey trade".

The 2016 pick is an uncertainty, but I believe in taking risks when you're at the phase of development we're in. We need to start collecting elite pieces right now. This means assets like Wennberg, who is going to be a good player in his own right, should be in the discussion as well.

This all really stems from how highly I rate Hanifin. If you don't see much of a difference between him and the other two, then obviously you're gonna be happy with what we get and you'll be happy to conserve assets. I just think he's the kind of player you pony up big time for, because in a few years, when he's dominating the way I believe he will, and we merely have good depth, we'll be wishing we traded some of that good depth when we had the chance. You need elite talent to win in this league.

 

[EspenK]

I completely understand this line of thinking. I obviously think Hanifin is going to be elite, whereas Provorov and Werenski, to me, will be in the tier or two below when in their primes. The difference, IMO, is significant. Rychel won't be a very special player. Useful, certainly, but nothing you couldn't acquire with a good old fashioned "hockey trade".

The 2016 pick is an uncertainty, but I believe in taking risks when you're at the phase of development we're in. We need to start collecting elite pieces right now. This means assets like Wennberg, who is going to be a good player in his own right, should be in the discussion as well.

This all really stems from how highly I rate Hanifin. If you don't see much of a difference between him and the other two, then obviously you're gonna be happy with what we get and you'll be happy to conserve assets. I just think he's the kind of player you pony up big time for, because in a few years, when he's dominating the way I believe he will, and we merely have good depth, we'll be wishing we traded some of that good depth when we had the chance. You need elite talent to win in this league.

I agree with your line of thinking. We have a bunch of pretty good players. To me, so far the only one who shows promise of becoming elite is Joey. Foligno has 3 more 70+ seasons I'll elevate him; Murray stays healthy he has a shot;Bob stays healthy and becomes consistent he could be elite. The rest very good at best. We need a few more elite or near elite guys. That is why I think trying our darnedest to get the D prospect we rate highest is so important.

 

[pete goegan]

Check out my post above.

#winsagain

Just another piece of the evidence referenced.

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

Probably is overkill. I'd do two of the pieces though if hannifin was the guy the staff thought was a cut above.

Not even sure I'd do that. Hanifin doesn't seem to be enough of an upgrade over Provorov or Werenski (one of whom should drop to us) that it would justify trading Rychel and next year's draft looks too good to be trading away the first pick unless it's for a major upgrade.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

I completely understand this line of thinking. I obviously think Hanifin is going to be elite, whereas Provorov and Werenski, to me, will be in the tier or two below when in their primes. The difference, IMO, is significant. Rychel won't be a very special player. Useful, certainly, but nothing you couldn't acquire with a good old fashioned "hockey trade".

The 2016 pick is an uncertainty, but I believe in taking risks when you're at the phase of development we're in. We need to start collecting elite pieces right now. This means assets like Wennberg, who is going to be a good player in his own right, should be in the discussion as well.

This all really stems from how highly I rate Hanifin. If you don't see much of a difference between him and the other two, then obviously you're gonna be happy with what we get and you'll be happy to conserve assets. I just think he's the kind of player you pony up big time for, because in a few years, when he's dominating the way I believe he will, and we merely have good depth, we'll be wishing we traded some of that good depth when we had the chance. You need elite talent to win in this league.

I agree with your line of thinking. We have a bunch of pretty good players. To me, so far the only one who shows promise of becoming elite is Joey. Foligno has 3 more 70+ seasons I'll elevate him; Murray stays healthy he has a shot;Bob stays healthy and becomes consistent he could be elite. The rest very good at best. We need a few more elite or near elite guys. That is why I think trying our darnedest to get the D prospect we rate highest is so important.

All of this x10000

It's understandable why people will want to conserve our assets, but in the long run does this really help our team if we don't use some of them to upgrade our team and acquire elite talent? There is no better time to pull the trigger than now, and who knows we may never have a better opportunity to utilize our collected assets to bring in a top tier player or two.

 

[CBJSlash]

If we believe Hanifin is a top 2 defensemen then you make the trade without thinking twice. Probably would take our highest 2nd to get it done.

Looking at our top 6 in 5 years, not sure what gives and where Rychel would slot. Most likely be a middle six wing with PP time.

Would you trade a Middle 6 wing and a Top 4 defensemen (8 OA) for a top 2 defensemen?

Yes.

 

[Jackets16]

Yes, I would trade an actual top 6 forward and 3/4 defenseman for a 1/2 defenseman. We have no clue what any of these 3 prospects will become though. Sure, some might have a better chance to be what you say, but we don't know. Not everyone even agrees that Hanifin is that better than the other 2 top defensemen in this draft.

 

[CBJSlash]

Yes, I would trade an actual top 6 forward and 3/4 defenseman for a 1/2 defenseman. We have no clue what any of these 3 prospects will become though. Sure, some might have a better chance to be what you say, but we don't know. Not everyone even agrees that Hanifin is that better than the other 2 top defensemen in this draft.

That's why it only depends on how the two teams view the pieces. If a team in the top 5 doesn't view Hanifin as a top 2 (or love another player) and we think he's close to a sure thing, then there might be some traction. Depends on how they view their Top 8 and Rychel. Some teams might view him as another Boone Jenner a PF with 1st line potential. I'd bet we don't view him that way.

These draft trade rumors get more interesting because they are based on projections, but few happen because I believe front offices get more risk averse when dealing with unknowns. Usually they only happen if the team is sure they'd get the player they wanted anyway or a quality NHLer.

 

[KeithBWhittington]

With The news of Dansk signing in Sweden, I think you have to grab a goaltender in this draft, don't have to take them in the first or second, but I'd start considering my choices heavily beginning in the third.

 

[Tony Quinn]

I think I read earlier in this thread that Jarmo doesn't like Werenski. Has he said that? Much of what I have read says Werenski has as much upside of any Dman and is only 17.

Could he pull a move like Reilly and that's the reason Jarmo is hesitant? I'd just as soon grab him at 8 than trade up to 3.

 

[DJA]

With The news of Dansk signing in Sweden, I think you have to grab a goaltender in this draft, don't have to take them in the first or second, but I'd start considering my choices heavily beginning in the third.

I still think that's way too early to take a goalie, plus we just took Elvis in the 3rd last year.

I might be interested in one in the 5th round or later, but I don't think it's a priority in this draft.

 

[EspenK]

Been playing in one of those mock drafts on the main. Here's what I got through 3 rounds

#8 Ivan Provorov D
#34 Vince Dunn D
# 38 Denis Guryanov RW
#58 Guillaume Brisebois D
#68 Austin Wagner LW
#69 Rasmus Andersson D (this one probably not going to be available here in real life)

To me that's a pretty good haul but also shows how deep this is going to be.

Here's the link if you want to check out the results and see who could have been picked instead. Note #29 was a Jackets pick becaus eth eguy who started traded CAM for that pick and 34 was auto picked before I took over so I substituted Dunn who was still available then.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1897323

 

[DJA]

I think I read earlier in this thread that Jarmo doesn't like Werenski. Has he said that? Much of what I have read says Werenski has as much upside of any Dman and is only 17.

Could he pull a move like Reilly and that's the reason Jarmo is hesitant? I'd just as soon grab him at 8 than trade up to 3.

Well he obviously hasn't come out and said he doesn't want Werenski, but you can read between the lines. He'd definitely be hesitant considering the Reilly situation. The rumor is that Hanifin is his guy, with Provorov as the consolation prize. He will get one of those two.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That's why it only depends on how the two teams view the pieces. If a team in the top 5 doesn't view Hanifin as a top 2 (or love another player) and we think he's close to a sure thing, then there might be some traction. Depends on how they view their Top 8 and Rychel. Some teams might view him as another Boone Jenner a PF with 1st line potential. I'd bet we don't view him that way.

These draft trade rumors get more interesting because they are based on projections, but few happen because I believe front offices get more risk averse when dealing with unknowns. Usually they only happen if the team is sure they'd get the player they wanted anyway or a quality NHLer.

Yes but Boone himself wasn't likely viewed that way when he was drafted. He was a heart-and-soul second-line centerman or upside third-liner. And Rychel was drafted 18 slots higher in his draft year.

Which I think goes to your final point, but maybe not.

I'm not sold on Werenski, but I think the team is better with Rychel and Werenski than just Hanifin.

 

[CBJSlash]

Yes but Boone himself wasn't likely viewed that way when he was drafted. He was a heart-and-soul second-line centerman or upside third-liner. And Rychel was drafted 18 slots higher in his draft year.

Which I think goes to your final point, but maybe not.

I'm not sold on Werenski, but I think the team is better with Rychel and Werenski than just Hanifin.

Yes, but two years after his draft year, Boone wasn't viewed that way. Rychel has that sort of game as his upside, but has done less in his post-draft years. Boone has a steadfast determination, will and core strength that is rare. Rychel is a better skater and was a better scorer in junior. I'd bet Rychel will likely fall somewhere around Boone and pre-2014 Foligno.

I'm sure there are teams that see Rychel as a potential 1st liner and others see him as a 3rd line grinder. Honestly, I think his short stint did well to raise his value, just perhaps not to us given our similar players to him in our Top 9. Had Foligno not had the year he had, I doubt he would have been resigned to term partly because we had a player like Rychel.

 

[juno89]

Well he obviously hasn't come out and said he doesn't want Werenski, but you can read between the lines. He'd definitely be hesitant considering the Reilly situation. The rumor is that Hanifin is his guy, with Provorov as the consolation prize. He will get one of those two.

Are there any concerns about jarmo's ability to find defensive talent? I can see a proven and very high "hit" rate for offensive talent both here and at St. Louis but I don't recall very much defensive talent.

For myself I do not ever recall a personnel in college or pro sports who I feel so confident in his ability to draft the best guy at the time of the pick. I would say my hope is that the draft goes exactly as he hopes it does.

 

[Jackets16]

I still think that's way too early to take a goalie, plus we just took Elvis in the 3rd last year.

I might be interested in one in the 5th round or later, but I don't think it's a priority in this draft.

I wouldn't even think about drafting one this year before the 5th. Not sure I would draft one at all, unless one we have rated really high is still around late in the draft and is rated a lot higher than anyone else available. We have no need for one in our organization right now.

 

[Jackets16]

Are there any concerns about jarmo's ability to find defensive talent? I can see a proven and very high "hit" rate for offensive talent both here and at St. Louis but I don't recall very much defensive talent.

For myself I do not ever recall a personnel in college or pro sports who I feel so confident in his ability to draft the best guy at the time of the pick. I would say my hope is that the draft goes exactly as he hopes it does.

Nope

 

[EDM]

Seems to me Rychel and the 8th for the third is a no brainer. It gets dicey when we start having to add to that.

 

[Jackets16]

Yes, but two years after his draft year, Boone wasn't viewed that way. Rychel has that sort of game as his upside, but has done less in his post-draft years. Boone has a steadfast determination, will and core strength that is rare. Rychel is a better skater and was a better scorer in junior. I'd bet Rychel will likely fall somewhere around Boone and pre-2014 Foligno.

????

Boone was drafted in 2011.

2011-2012:
OHL - 43gp, 22g, 27a, 49pts, 59pim, +12
AHL - 5gp, 1g, 0a, 1pt, 2pim, -1

2012-2013:
OHL - 56gp, 45g, 37a, 82pts, 58pim, +23
AHL - 5gp, 3g, 1a, 4pts, 0pim, +1


Kerby was drafted in 2013.

2013-2014:
OHL - 58gp, 34g, 56a, 90pts, 43pim, +41

2014-2015:
AHL - 51gp, 12g, 21a, 33pts, 43pim, +7
NHL - 5gp, 0g, 3a, 3pts, 2pim, +3

 

[Xoggz22]

Been playing in one of those mock drafts on the main. Here's what I got through 3 rounds

#8 Ivan Provorov D
#34 Vince Dunn D
# 38 Denis Guryanov RW
#58 Guillaume Brisebois D
#68 Austin Wagner LW
#69 Rasmus Andersson D (this one probably not going to be available here in real life)

To me that's a pretty good haul but also shows how deep this is going to be.

Absolutely love the bolded. No chance Andersson is there at 69 but I guess you never know... I like Dunn too but think there may be other options I woudl prefer.