2015 nfl mvp

[Gene Parmesan]

Drew Stanton fared fairly well

Not really. The Cardinals were finding ways to win with their defense. Stanton didn't lose games but didn't win any either.

 

[What the Faulk]

^ It's not like Palmer didn't have that same defense. In any event, it's amusing when people want to knock Cam for having a great defense. The Cardinals are statistically better.

Lacy Good????? He's at almost 700 yards with 3 TD's this season. Two previous seasons he's had over 1100 yards with 11 & 9 TDs respectively. (Rushing). His receiving numbers are down too and he was even demoted.

Maybe that's why you should read the full quote.

"The defense has mostly held together lately and Lacy has been good, so they've won, but not impressively."

 

[InjuredChoker]

Lacy Good????? He's at almost 700 yards with 3 TD's this season. Two previous seasons he's had over 1100 yards with 11 & 9 TDs respectively. (Rushing). His receiving numbers are down too and he was even demoted.

i think he's been demoted more than once, maybe more than twice. though at least one of those was from being late from meeting or something. but fairly sure the fat boy been demoted at least twice due to his play.

Maybe that's why you should read the full quote.

"The defense has mostly held together lately and Lacy has been good, so they've won, but not impressively."

he has had 3 good games (or 2 good, one very good) in his last 5 or 6. overall, i'd say disappointing. not that rogers has been MVP level for the past two months, he hasn't.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Just because Brown was mentioned, what kind a season would a WR have to put up to actually win an MVP? It's otherwise dominated by QBs and RBs.

Other than that, I'd vote for Cameron.

Absurd records nearly across the board...which could have happened had the Steelers not had 4+ games with 3rd string QBs incapable of throwing the ball more than 10 yards (which in a way does submarine his argument this year, but you can't catch what isn't thrown to you and Brown was little more than a decoy for the lesser QBs).

Brown with a fully healthy Ben this year would have had a very real chance of winning the MVP from that WR slot...but unfortunately that scenario didn't play out.

Newton gets my vote right now.

I also don't get the love for Antonio Brown. If you can say "Oh if Big Ben stayed healthy his stats would be better" How does that make him an MVP? If let's say Texans made the playoffs. I would say Hopkins would be more of a MVP then he is. Brown is the best WR in the league, but wouldn't say he's the most valuable.

You can't catch what isn't thrown your way...Vick's playbook was about two pages long and was almost exclusively rollouts that used Brown as a decoy and Landry Jones is a noodle-armed third-stringer who'd be out of work right now if not for Gradkowski going down in the pre-season.

That argument is a good reason as to why receivers are basically never in the discussion for the award in the first place, though, and why it's essentially guaranteed to go to a QB.

 

[mouser]

Gotta believe Cam has it just about wrapped up at this point.

 

[JRull86]

Can't go wrong with either Newton or Brady. Palmer has a legit shot too. I go with Brady because he's literally doing what he's done this year as a non-mobile QB, with a mediocre O-Line, missing his best WR for probably the last 6 weeks of the season, missing Gronk for 2 games, missing Amendola for 2 games. The guy just makes everyone he plays with better, and that's what the MVP is supposed to be. I mean when you go into a game with Amendola, Keyshawn Martin, and Scott Chandler as your top 3 options and still put up points, what more can you ask (granted they lost because special teams was awful).

Yeah Newton has made Ginn Jr look legit, and has had rely on a rookie in Funchess, and Greg Olsen, but he can offset a lack of talent in the receiving game with his legs.

In the end, Newton probably wins it.

Also, I'm sorry for people using QBR as a relevant stat, get a clue. QBR is an awful stat that ESPN made up. One that has Brady 13th in the league behind the likes of Tyrod Taylor, Kirk Cousins, and Teddy Bridgewater? Get real with that. Also, mr MVP Newton is 8th. According to that "stat" Palmer is the clear cut MVP.

 

[Best In The Game]

LOL. Skip Bayless uses QBR to argue Dalton is a better QB than Rodgers.

Russel Wilson. Their defense hasn't been as great as they have and their star RBs have been injured.

 

[JRull86]

LOL. Skip Bayless uses QBR to argue Dalton is a better QB than Rodgers.

Russel Wilson. Their defense hasn't been as great as they have and their star RBs have been injured.

Honestly you could make a legitimate case for Wilson, but I think it's a too little too late kind of thing for him. No questioning he's been great the past 6 weeks or so when he's literally carried the team on his back.

And that's exactly why QBR is a stupid ass stat. If you asked anyone who the top 5 QBs are in the league, I'd say 99% of them say in no particular order; Brady, Rodgers, Newton, Big Ben, and probably one of Wilson, Brees, or Palmer. Dalton is NOT a better QB than anyone on that list.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

For me, I have Newton slightly edging out Brady for MVP as the most valuable player, but I still have Brady as the 1st Team All-Pro QB with Palmer on 2nd team.

And yes, QBR is stupid and should not exist. If I need to use a points measurement system to help me keep track of performance, I'd go with Pro Football Focus, although I also prefer using my two eyes nowadays because I have seen so much football over the past four seasons. Like seriously, don't **** with my Sundays.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Two horse race for me: Cam Newton and Carson Palmer. Palmer has a tougher more vertical offense to run, so I give points to that over something like New England's style of play.

Newton is obviously the man and he has no real RB, barely NFL WRs and though he has a monster defense, he still gets the job done when they don't. Plus, I know that everyone attributes wins directly to just QBs for whatever reason, so I know he has to be way up there with the 14-0 start...

Right now though, it's Carson Palmer for me on this largely unheralded Cardinals team...

 

[What the Faulk]

Cam throws a lot of passes downfield too



I'm not sure how you can call the Cardinals "largely unheralded". Everybody loves Fitzgerald, and John Brown/Michael Floyd are great 2/3 guys, though they've spent time banged up. Every RB they stick back there has been great, and the defense is statistically better than Carolina's while featuring names like Peterson and Mathieu (well, not anymore). Palmer has a ton more talent surrounding him.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Cam has thee stats and the narrative. It'll be him.

 

[John Price]

Newton AINEC

 

[TNT87]

Definitely Newton.

 

[Voight]

Russel Wilson. Their defense hasn't been as great as they have and their star RBs have been injured.

Yea, i think hes gained some major steam the last two months and could parlay that into the MVP.

Newton AINEC

"AINEC" is not correct here. He isnt exactly head and feet above everyone else.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

it's without a doubt cam newton and the voting will reflect that.

dude turned ted ginn into a double digit TD guy.

so many clutch plays all year, stop just looking at passing stats, factor in what he does running.

the dude has 40 ****ing touchdowns this year and his best offensive teammate is greg olson

 

[Roboturner913]

after this week, it's definitely Cam. No question.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

it's without a doubt cam newton and the voting will reflect that.

dude turned ted ginn into a double digit TD guy.

so many clutch plays all year, stop just looking at passing stats, factor in what he does running.

the dude has 40 ****ing touchdowns this year and his best offensive teammate is greg olson

If you combine his passing and rushing yards he's still closer to Alex Smith than Brady/Palmer. You are also underselling the entire team. Until his injury Stewart was racking up tons of yards for that team (he was top 3 in the NFL I believe). You also have to factor in the Panthers laughably easy schedule this season too. The fact is Newton did have a career season, however there are still at least 3-4 QBs who definitively had better seasons. That doesn't even touch clearly superior players at other positions such as AP or Antonio Brown. The fact of the matter is Newton would be one of the weakest MVP winners ever and if his team didn't start 14-0 nobody would even think of mentioning him as an MVP.

 

[darko]

Two horse race for me: Cam Newton and Carson Palmer. Palmer has a tougher more vertical offense to run, so I give points to that over something like New England's style of play.

Newton is obviously the man and he has no real RB, barely NFL WRs and though he has a monster defense, he still gets the job done when they don't. Plus, I know that everyone attributes wins directly to just QBs for whatever reason, so I know he has to be way up there with the 14-0 start...

Right now though, it's Carson Palmer for me on this largely unheralded Cardinals team...

Have I missed something?

 

[What the Faulk]

If you combine his passing and rushing yards he's still closer to Alex Smith than Brady/Palmer.

Right, let's value yards over touchdowns. That makes a ton of sense. Is your name Chase by any chance

You are also underselling the entire team. Until his injury Stewart was racking up tons of yards for that team (he was top 3 in the NFL I believe).

That's because he was getting a ton of carries. Only recently has he even broken 4.0 YPC. He ranks 20th in YPC among RBs who have carried the ball 100+ times. His total is the result of sheer volume.

But fair point, there's definitely no talent surrounding Palmer or Brady either.

You also have to factor in the Panthers laughably easy schedule this season too.

You mean essentially the same schedule that the Patriots played? And until this week, the Cardinals had the easiest of all playoff teams, but funny how those criticisms never surfaced.

The fact is Newton did have a career season, however there are still at least 3-4 QBs who definitively had better seasons. That doesn't even touch clearly superior players at other positions such as AP or Antonio Brown.

Definitively? Um, no. Arguably? Sure, there's an argument to be made for a lot of players. Your cherry-picked statistics isn't it.

I thought you said 10 anyway

The fact of the matter is Newton would be one of the weakest MVP winners ever and if his team didn't start 14-0 nobody would even think of mentioning him as an MVP.

He was mentioned by more than a handful of people as a darkhorse candidate back when he had something 13 TDs to 7 interceptions. It was when his statistics caught up to him that he became mentioned as a favorite. But his play hasn't really changed over the course of the season. People who've actually watched more than 3 games this year will tell you that. It's amazing how much you can tell about a player/team when you pay attention to more than just the box scores.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

When Palmer had to shoulder more of the load, he turned it over all the time. Now he's surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball and asked to not turn it over.

Acting as if he's doing much more than Newton isn't true.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Have I missed something?

Yes, we have all missed the talk and coverage of this Cardinals team up until just a few weeks ago. Team started hot - weak opponents. Team continues to roll big time teams - and every time it's "are they for real?" "is tonight the night they implode?" just implying that they aren't legitimate.

Finally, over the last few weeks they get some play. But honestly, for the first 8-10 weeks, no one in the media paid too much attention to them. At least, not as much as you would guess for a team that has been just about the best team in football this year (sans Carolina)...

There is a liberal use of the term "underrated" on this board, but the Cardinals were it for much of the year based on what I heard on telecasts every Sunday and Monday...

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Right, let's value yards over touchdowns. That makes a ton of sense. Is your name Chase by any chance

Who said I value yards over touchdowns? I don't. I value both. The fact is Brady leads the NFL in both yards and TDs, Newton lags far behind in yards.

That's because he was getting a ton of carries. Only recently has he even broken 4.0 YPC. He ranks 20th in YPC among RBs who have carried the ball 100+ times. His total is the result of sheer volume.

While sheer volume certainly helps his totals, his yardage also helps the team. I like how you are trying to dismiss a 1000 yard rusher to build your case.

But fair point, there's definitely no talent surrounding Palmer or Brady either.

You might have a point if I was the one that raised the supporting cast, however I wasn't. You are the one who pretended everybody on Carolina was a bunch of scrubs to try and prove your point. I might buy into the fact that Newton deserves credit for exceeding despite an inferior roster if he was anywhere close to Brady and Palmer in overall production, but he's not.

You mean essentially the same schedule that the Patriots played? And until this week, the Cardinals had the easiest of all playoff teams, but funny how those criticisms never surfaced.

Those criticisms never surfaced because Brady and Palmer are far and away the top 2 QBs in the league this season. They are playing at a level that far exceeds guys like Roethlisberger, Rivers, Wilson, and Newton. If Newton was actually playing to the level those two were it wouldn't be a point of criticism.

Definitively? Um, no. Arguably? Sure, there's an argument to be made for a lot of players. Your cherry-picked statistics isn't it.

Ahhh yes cherry picked stats like "yards" and "touchdowns" God forbid I rank quarterbacks by what they do and not something imaginary like "intangibles".

He was mentioned by more than a handful of people as a darkhorse candidate back when he had something 13 TDs to 7 interceptions. It was when his statistics caught up to him that he became mentioned as a favorite. But his play hasn't really changed over the course of the season. People who've actually watched more than 3 games this year will tell you that. It's amazing how much you can tell about a player/team when you pay attention to more than just the box scores.

He was mentioned as a candidate back then because his team was undefeated half way through the year. His entire MVP candidacy hinges on the fact that his team went on a long undefeated run. There's no other way around that fact.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

When Palmer had to shoulder more of the load, he turned it over all the time. Now he's surrounded by talent on both sides of the ball and asked to not turn it over.

Acting as if he's doing much more than Newton isn't true.

Well he's moving the ball a lot more effectively than Newton that's for sure. He's got 4567 yards to Newton's 4170. He also turns the ball over less often, however that's not exactly a weak point for Newton either as he's only slightly behind in that category.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

While sheer volume certainly helps his totals, his yardage also helps the team. I like how you are trying to dismiss a 1000 yard rusher to build your case.

Aren't you doing the same thing? Newton's opportunities to throw (ie how he's going to build his yardage) are more limited than any other team in the League because Carolina (until Stewart went down) would do a run play moreso than they would run a pass play.

Carolina is 26th in the League in pass attempts per game....New England is 4th. Might this not have to do with Carolina being very comfortable with their run game?

Well he's moving the ball a lot more effectively than Newton that's for sure. He's got 4567 yards to Newton's 4170. He also turns the ball over less often, however that's not exactly a weak point for Newton either as he's only slightly behind in that category.

...That's the difference? All of 400 yards?

Might that not be explained by Arizona arguably having the best receiver core in the League, while Newton arguably has the worst (seriously, the Panthers' best receiver was cut by Arizona)? Or that the Cardinals attempt 3 more pass plays per game than the Panthers?

Here's some math: Carson Palmer is 1st in the League with 8.8 yards per attempt. Newton is 10th with 7.56.

If the Cardinals gets (rounding up) 9 yards per attempt, and they attempt 3 more passes per game than Carolina, over 15 games that's a difference of roughly....400 yards.

Now, that's not to say that Carson Palmer isn't a better passer than Cam Newton (clearly, if Newton had the same amount of attempts as Palmer, he would not have the same yardage as Palmer), I'm saying that you should stop relying so much on yards, it ignores team context.