2015 Draft Thread: McEichel Pt. 4

[haseoke39]

I think by criticizing the draft last year, people are trying to add some much needed balance to the conversation about Murray's credentials. He showed up, was charming, went to a lot of junior games, and was standing in the picture frame at the ducks 2003 draft, and for that he was roundly proclaimed a draft guru and the perfect fit for the rebuild. Well, I'm not saying he isn't, but I think we just don't know. People are maybe making a bit more of the early returns than they would otherwise because they're trying to add something to the other side of that conversation.

 

[ZeroPT*]

As odd as it may sound I just don't think he wanted to draft any of the three prospects. He desperately wanted to move up.

If we're going to criticize his 2nd round picks then we must look past that. Johansson is intriguing and Martin is playing like one of the top D-men in the WHL. Past that you have Olofsson who's had a great +1 season. I remember when people were calling it a "putrid draft". The draft class isn't a year old. No one here knows how they'll turn out. The only real criticism I have of that draft is Barbashev. And that's because I had him in my top 10 from November onward. oh and for those who say that Karabacek has regressed, you're wrong. He's good. Very good at what he does. He may have underwhelming numbers but similarly to Carrier he plays a pro style game that is about more than scoring. Good all around player.

Give it time. But of course the few posters who will jump on Murray at all costs will continue to do so. Not in the least surprised especially when you consider the source.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

As odd as it may sound I just don't think he wanted to draft any of the three prospects. He desperately wanted to move up.

If we're going to criticize his 2nd round picks then we must look past that. Johansson is intriguing and Martin is playing like one of the top D-men in the WHL. Past that you have Olofsson who's had a great +1 season. I remember when people were calling it a "putrid draft". The draft class isn't a year old. No one here knows how they'll turn out. The only real criticism I have of that draft is Barbashev. And that's because I had him in my top 10 from November onward. oh and for those who say that Karabacek has regressed, you're wrong. He's good. Very good at what he does. He may have underwhelming numbers but similarly to Carrier he plays a pro style game that is about more than scoring. Good all around player.

Give it time. But of course the few posters who will jump on Murray at all costs will continue to do so. Not in the least surprised especially when you consider the source.

Excellent post Zero, my thoughts exactly.

 

[1972]

Someone mind posting this? Or at least elaborating.

 

[sabrebuild]

It's like Murray has a different vision of a team than any of us. I find it hilarious that regardless what happens with Lemeuix, Murray will be on the end of criticism. If Lemeuix flops, and Barbashev develops nicely people will constantly criticize him for the pick. If Lemeuix turns into a better player, people will not agree he was the better player, but they'll just criticize him for using him in a trade.

So pretty much Kane and Bogosian better turn into ppg point players because people will never let him forget the Myers and Lemeuix trade.

Lemieux bro

 

[Zip15]

No. What do you think Mitch Marner projects to be? If he is 3/4 the player Tarasenko is, it's a success.

You think it'd be a success if Strome or Marner is 75% a .66 pt/game player until his 23-year-old season? Look at the top three forwards in Tarasenko's draft and tell me which is merely "3/4 the player" Tarasenko: Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, and Ryan Johansen.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

I think it's a little premature to be attacking Mureay at this point. He's loaded the system with talent. Obviously he was the recipient of a lot of nice draft picks... What I do like from Nurray so far is his aggressiveness. Clearly shown by the Kane trade. He saw a player he wanted and went out and got him, idea of "winning the trade" be damned. Darcy "won" a lot of trades but the team was still ****. It's about time this team's management showed some balls is all I'm saying.

 

[OkimLom]

Lemieux bro

Typing on the phone with autocorrect...ugh

 

[CatsforReinhart]

As odd as it may sound I just don't think he wanted to draft any of the three prospects. He desperately wanted to move up.

If we're going to criticize his 2nd round picks then we must look past that. Johansson is intriguing and Martin is playing like one of the top D-men in the WHL. Past that you have Olofsson who's had a great +1 season. I remember when people were calling it a "putrid draft". The draft class isn't a year old. No one here knows how they'll turn out. The only real criticism I have of that draft is Barbashev. And that's because I had him in my top 10 from November onward. oh and for those who say that Karabacek has regressed, you're wrong. He's good. Very good at what he does. He may have underwhelming numbers but similarly to Carrier he plays a pro style game that is about more than scoring. Good all around player.

Give it time. But of course the few posters who will jump on Murray at all costs will continue to do so. Not in the least surprised especially when you consider the source.

I like how if you criticize Murray = jump on at all costs.

One can easily say that those who defend Murray with everything will do so at all costs.

I am not one from one extreme to the next. I am happy Murray is doing something here more then Regier would but that doesn't mean I put on my rose coloured glasses and ignore the product just because Murray has an attitude Buffalo people like. One way or another Murray's Ego will either be his success or his undoing. It is far too early to tell but it is a forum and it provides good conversation.

I think it's a little premature to be attacking Mureay at this point. He's loaded the system with talent. Obviously he was the recipient of a lot of nice draft picks... What I do like from Nurray so far is his aggressiveness. Clearly shown by the Kane trade. He saw a player he wanted and went out and got him, idea of "winning the trade" be damned. Darcy "won" a lot of trades but the team was still ****. It's about time this team's management showed some balls is all I'm saying.

Actually that was Regier that loaded the system with talent. You can thank Regier for Reinhart(regier put the team there), McCabe, Zadarov, Grigs, Girgs, Risto.... We also won the presidents trophy for the first time ever(it isnt a stanley cup but our name is there.) and two conference finals. I don't want to turn this into a Murray vs Regier but I would completely dismiss Regier.

My feeling is the Kane trade is the first real stamp Murray put on this team. What Murray does with the head coach, losing out/winning on McEichel and then the next 2 years will be all on Murray. time will tell...

EDIT: If Lindback costs us McEichel then that is on Murray. How many Murray lovers will own up then?

 

[Mattilaus]

I like how if you criticize Murray = jump on at all costs.

One can easily say that those who defend Murray with everything will do so at all costs.

I am not one from one extreme to the next. I am happy Murray is doing something here more then Regier would but that doesn't mean I put on my rose coloured glasses and ignore the product just because Murray has an attitude Buffalo people like. One way or another Murray's Ego will either be his success or his undoing. It is far too early to tell but it is a forum and it provides good conversation.



Actually that was Regier that loaded the system with talent. You can thank Regier for Reinhart(regier put the team there), McCabe, Zadarov, Grigs, Girgs, Risto.... We also won the presidents trophy for the first time ever(it isnt a stanley cup but our name is there.) and two conference finals. I don't want to turn this into a Murray vs Regier but I would completely dismiss Regier.

My feeling is the Kane trade is the first real stamp Murray put on this team. What Murray does with the head coach, losing out/winning on McEichel and then the next 2 years will be all on Murray. time will tell...

EDIT: If Lindback costs us McEichel then that is on Murray. How many Murray lovers will own up then?

I don't think keeping Neuvirth in net would have made any difference.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

I like how if you criticize Murray = jump on at all costs.

One can easily say that those who defend Murray with everything will do so at all costs.

I am not one from one extreme to the next. I am happy Murray is doing something here more then Regier would but that doesn't mean I put on my rose coloured glasses and ignore the product just because Murray has an attitude Buffalo people like. One way or another Murray's Ego will either be his success or his undoing. It is far too early to tell but it is a forum and it provides good conversation.



Actually that was Regier that loaded the system with talent. You can thank Regier for Reinhart(regier put the team there), McCabe, Zadarov, Grigs, Girgs, Risto.... We also won the presidents trophy for the first time ever(it isnt a stanley cup but our name is there.) and two conference finals. I don't want to turn this into a Murray vs Regier but I would completely dismiss Regier.

My feeling is the Kane trade is the first real stamp Murray put on this team. What Murray does with the head coach, losing out/winning on McEichel and then the next 2 years will be all on Murray. time will tell...

EDIT: If Lindback costs us McEichel then that is on Murray. How many Murray lovers will own up then?

Lindback won't cost the Sabres McEichel. The Coyotes will.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Lindback won't cost the Sabres McEichel. The Coyotes will.

That is a cop out. Blaming another team for your own teams future. Ugh.

Even lets take your example then that makes Coyotes management better then ours.

It was Murray's job to put this team in last place. He said as much during the season. He is the Manager. He is responsible for this team. Blaming another team for his failure just proves my point that you have rose coloured glasses on.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Super 16: Second place in '15 draft not bad place to be

By Corey Masisak - NHL.com Staff Writer

Connor McDavid's credentials to be the No. 1 pick in the 2015 NHL Draft are beyond reproach. The sensational center for the Erie Otters of the Ontario Hockey League is one of the most-hyped prospects of the past 25 years, reaching a level only Eric Lindros, Sidney Crosby and maybe John Tavares have.

Jack Eichel's resume is also pretty great. The freshman forward at Boston University is also one of the best prospects to enter the draft of the past quarter century. He'd have a chance to go No. 1 in any of the seasons since Tavares was picked in 2009, but he's likely destined to be the second half of the "McEichel" sweepstakes.

Craig Custance from ESPN.com recently wrote about the astronomical price another team would have to pay if whoever gets the No. 1 pick would consider moving it and passing on the chance to add McDavid. One general manager, Tim Murray of the Buffalo Sabres, told Custance on the record he'd try to trade for the No. 1 pick if the Sabres end up in the No. 2 spot.

While that is not meant to be a slight against Eichel, it might also not be the best move for whichever GM ends up with the No. 2 pick. Eichel is having an incredible season, leading the NCAA in scoring despite being one of the youngest players in the country.

He's putting up numbers no freshman has since Paul Kariya played for Maine 22 years ago, and that was during a more high-scoring era. Check out the accompanying table that shows McDavid and Eichel against some of their top comparables.

 

[Husko]

WGR just speculated about the idea of us getting Crouse with our #1 pick. I think I'd cry and cry and cry and cry

 

[26CornerBlitz]

WGR just speculated about the idea of us getting Crouse with our #1 pick. I think I'd cry and cry and cry and cry

Ya never know....He could be the next Taylor Pyatt.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

That is a cop out. Blaming another team for your own teams future. Ugh.

Even lets take your example then that makes Coyotes management better then ours.

It was Murray's job to put this team in last place. He said as much during the season. He is the Manager. He is responsible for this team. Blaming another team for his failure just proves my point that you have rose coloured glasses on.

Their management isn't better, their team is just playing worse. And Nolan's got the Sabres jacked up and playing particularly hard.

Having some sort of vendetta against Murray and holding a ***** for Regier fairly evidently shows the tint of your glasses.


People need to A) move on from Regier, it's over, get over it and B) R-E-L-A-X. McEichel is still very much in this teams sights.

 

[Mattilaus]

That is a cop out. Blaming another team for your own teams future. Ugh.

Even lets take your example then that makes Coyotes management better then ours.

It was Murray's job to put this team in last place. He said as much during the season. He is the Manager. He is responsible for this team. Blaming another team for his failure just proves my point that you have rose coloured glasses on.

We are not using rose coloured glasses but you can point to bunch of other moves before you should be pointing at Lindback as the reason for this.

Enroth was good and this board screamed to get rid of him before he ruined the season and Murray moved him. Then Neuvirth started being good and once again this board screamed that we had to move him before he ruined the season and Murray moved him. Now Lindback is good and you are saying this is all Murray's fault for getting Lindback.

Murray did exactly what we all would have done and what he should have done with regards to the goaltending situation. Nobody could have seen Lindback performing like this once coming over and if you could please tell me the winning lottery numbers for this week.

If you can't see the problem with this line of thought then I don't know how to help you. Criticize other moves all you'd like but the Lindback issue doesn't prove Murray to be a bad GM any more than it proves you have no hockey knowledge because you also thought Lindback was going to suck.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Their management isn't better, their team is just playing worse. And Nolan's got the Sabres jacked up and playing particularly hard.

Having some sort of vendetta against Murray and holding a ***** for Regier fairly evidently shows the tint of your glasses.


People need to A) move on from Regier, it's over, get over it and B) R-E-L-A-X. McEichel is still very much in this teams sights.

Really? Where did I say fire Murray or keep Regier? Sorry I am able to have an objective view of things. As in my posts.

Murray had complete control of this team from game one. He decided the future. If we land McEichel I will praise Murray for it. If we draft 3rd as equally it will be his failure.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

We are not using rose coloured glasses but you can point to bunch of other moves before you should be pointing at Lindback as the reason for this.

Enroth was good and this board screamed to get rid of him before he ruined the season and Murray moved him. Then Neuvirth started being good and once again this board screamed that we had to move him before he ruined the season and Murray moved him. Now Lindback is good and you are saying this is all Murray's fault for getting Lindback.

Murray did exactly what we all would have done and what he should have done with regards to the goaltending situation. Nobody could have seen Lindback performing like this once coming over and if you could please tell me the winning lottery numbers for this week.

If you can't see the problem with this line of thought then I don't know how to help you. Criticize other moves all you'd like but the Lindback issue doesn't prove Murray to be a bad GM any more than it proves you have no hockey knowledge because you also thought Lindback was going to suck.

I wonder when GMs and Coaches get fired they do what fans do and blame everyone else.

They have a job to do. They don't get it done it is their fault. Period. I will wait 12 games to pass judgement but Murray could of made this team worse at the beginning of the season, during the season, at the trade deadline. Its his job to put this team in last place, not blame others for it.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

Really? Where did I say fire Murray or keep Regier? Sorry I am able to have an objective view of things. As in my posts.

Murray had complete control of this team from game one. He decided the future. If we land McEichel I will praise Murray for it. If we draft 3rd as equally it will be his failure.

Not getting McEichel doesn't mean Murray's a failure. Hanifin will be a stud top pairing dman for when this team is actually competing for Cups. People seem to be forgetting that there's Reinhart coming too. Reinhart 1c, Girgs 2c, Grigs/maybe Trade/FA 3rd c, Larsson 4th C. That's a pretty decent corp of Centers. Missing out on McEichel obviously would be a massive disappointment but it won't kill the rebuild.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Not getting McEichel doesn't mean Murray's a failure. Hanifin will be a stud top pairing dman for when this team is actually competing for Cups. People seem to be forgetting that there's Reinhart coming too. Reinhart 1c, Girgs 2c, Grigs/maybe Trade/FA 3rd c, Larsson 4th C. That's a pretty decent corp of Centers. Missing out on McEichel obviously would be a massive disappointment but it won't kill the rebuild.

I never said that. I said the goal of landing McEichel is a failure. Reread. IMO just because you fail it does not make you a "failure"

Is in not? Was it not Murray's goal to land one of them?(lets not pretend he wasn't trying to finish last)

I am not saying fire Murray because we didn't finish last but it is on him. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[RoofIt5hole]

I never said that. I said the goal of landing McEichel is a failure. Reread. IMO just because you fail it does not make you a "failure"

Is in not? Was it not Murray's goal to land one of them?(lets not pretend he wasn't trying to finish last)

I am not saying fire Murray because we didn't finish last but it is on him. Why wouldn't it be?

I'd just like for people to chill out and wait for the ACTUAL LOTTERY to Happen before saying Murray failed... Geez.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I'd just like for people to chill out and wait for the ACTUAL LOTTERY to Happen before saying Murray failed... Geez.

It is a forum.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

It is a forum.

Apparently where some of the most miserable negative people go to wallow in sports loserdom...

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Apparently where some of the most miserable negative people go to wallow in sports loserdom...

Why people come to a forum, click on a thread that is about tanking and getting McEichel then complain about people talking about losing is well strange.

Lets click on a tanking/landing McEichel thread and then expect everyone to be wearing rose coloured glasses when it is a tense situation. Hmm....