2015 Draft Thread – "McEichel" – Part One

[sabrebuild]

Almost all of the top scorers in the league are marginal defensive players, but are still great. 99.9% of 18 year olds need to learn to play without the puck. The criticism is dumb.

Again I guess you want to only discuss the good things they do and ignore their weaknesses. ... your other comment is just false. Crosby, toews, kopitar, getzlaf, are either elite defensively or above average. Even guys like malkin, giroux, stamkos and thorton are respectable and in the playoffs turn It up to play good d. Oh and if you closed your eyes last night datsyuk is one of the best defensive centers in the last decade not to mention his boy Zetterberg who's no slouch.

Any other made up facts?

 

[stokes84]

Again I guess you want to only discuss the good things they do and ignore their weaknesses. ... your other comment is just false. Crosby, toews, kopitar, getzlaf, are either elite defensively or above average. Even guys like malkin, giroux, stamkos and thorton are respectable and in the playoffs turn It up to play good d. Oh and if you closed your eyes last night datsyuk is one of the best defensive centers in the last decade not to mention his boy Zetterberg who's no slouch.

Any other made up percentages?

Crosby, Getzlaf, Giroux, Seguin, Perry, Kessel, Hall, Ovechkin.

These were your top scorers last season. Giroux is the only one who has above average defensive chops. And they didn't come into the league being touted as Selke candidates. There are very few Ryan O'Reilly's and Sean Couturier's who step right in and play a 200 foot game. And who would you rather have, those players or the ones I listed. And again, playing without the puck can be learned, scoring can't.

 

[sabrebuild]

First of all I never said he couldn't get better at playing d, I simply said he looked disinterested at the jr level. Criticism doesn't mean he is never getting better but its a more interesting discussion than omg he's amazing for the next 9 months.

First of all your wrong with your assessment crosby and giroux are very similar defensively and both are better than average. Getzlaf might be better than both. Every one else on your tiny sample size beside being wingers, are known for being weak defensively and how that is a huge hole on their game. Tho hall is getting better and perry is at least average. Nobody said mcdavid needs to be O'Reilly coming into the league. Just noting an issue he has. Should we not talk about how he could shoot more to be a more complete forward because woah he's amazing don't nother with criticism any weaknesses he has?

 

[stokes84]

First of all I never said he couldn't get better at playing d, I simply said he looked disinterested at the jr level. Criticism doesn't mean he is never getting better but its a more interesting discussion than omg he's amazing for the next 9 months.

First of all your wrong with your assessment crosby and giroux are very similar defensively and both are better than average. Getzlaf might be better than both. Every one else on your tiny sample size beside being wingers, are known for being weak defensively and how that is a huge hole on their game. Tho hall is getting better and perry is at least average. Nobody said mcdavid needs to be O'Reilly coming into the league. Just noting an issue he has. Should we not talk about how he could shoot more to be a more complete forward because woah he's amazing don't nother with criticism any weaknesses he has?

No, we shouldn't, because they are not going to be asked to be Selke type players. They are both going to show up and be top 10 players in the world by the time they can have their first beer. Nitpicking about their defensive play while they dominate their competition like only a handful of 18 year olds in history have is mind blowing.

 

[CarlWinslow]

McDavid and Eichel both have the appearance of top flight players at this point. Even if we end up last and get Eichel, this whole lottery thing is going to fill me with rage. I can already see someone else winning the stupid draw and costing us McDavid. I'm going to be so angry.

 

[sabrebuild]

No, we shouldn't, because they are not going to be asked to be Selke type players. They are both going to show up and be top 10 players in the world by the time they can have their first beer. Nitpicking about their defensive play while they dominate their competition like only a handful of 18 year olds in history have is mind blowing.

haha okay we shall only fluff them. Derpy derp

 

[MayDay]

McDavid and Eichel both have the appearance of top flight players at this point. Even if we end up last and get Eichel, this whole lottery thing is going to fill me with rage. I can already see someone else winning the stupid draw and costing us McDavid. I'm going to be so angry.

As long as we get one of the two I will be perfectly happy.

If we get one of the two and either NYI or STL hand us another top 15 pick, I will be even happier.

If we wind up picking 3rd and getting Hanifin, I'll move on and be glad to have him, but still be very annoyed - since it would mean that this season did not achieve the one thing it was supposed to do, and therefore must be considered a failure on some level.

 

[Zip15]

McDavid and Eichel both have the appearance of top flight players at this point. Even if we end up last and get Eichel, this whole lottery thing is going to fill me with rage. I can already see someone else winning the stupid draw and costing us McDavid. I'm going to be so angry.

You're going to be filled with rage that something with an 80% probability of happening happens? You think the chasm between McDavid and Eichel is so wide that it warrants rage?

 

[Jim Bob]

It's super early, but Eichel is tied for the NCAA lead in Pts/GM with Jake Guentzel of Nebraska-Omaha at 1.8 Pts/GM.

 

[CarlWinslow]

You're going to be filled with rage that something with an 80% probability of happening happens? You think the chasm between McDavid and Eichel is so wide that it warrants rage?

Its not even the chasm really. Its the principal of the whole thing.

I do think though that McDavid is more of what we need than Eichel if that makes any sense. I feel like we have a nice stable of these bigger bodied types. What we lack is the elite skating top flight center who can really fly.

 

[stokes84]

Its not even the chasm really. Its the principal of the whole thing.

I do think though that McDavid is more of what we need than Eichel if that makes any sense. I feel like we have a nice stable of these bigger bodied types. What we lack is the elite skating top flight center who can really fly.

You just described Eichel.

 

[Chainshot]

No, we shouldn't, because they are not going to be asked to be Selke type players. They are both going to show up and be top 10 players in the world by the time they can have their first beer. Nitpicking about their defensive play while they dominate their competition like only a handful of 18 year olds in history have is mind blowing.

Agreed. Explosive offensive players can and do learn how to be competant defense players at the major league level. It isn't a source of concern given how both of those guys have such dominant offensive skills. They aren't going to have to reinvent their game in order to play in this league.

 

[dotcommunism]

You just agreed with me saying that if we get mceichel then it accelerates the rebuild. I said if we don't get them we have to wait longer for others to develop. The later round first picks and other early picks are likely 3+ years away

You miss my point. I'm not disputing the likely timelines regarding McDavid/Eichel vs no McDavid/Eichel, I'm disputing how you are framing the issue. Yes McDavid or Eichel accelerates the rebuild. The rebuild plans, and fan expectations, should not be designed around acquiring any specific player, though. If not getting McDavid or Eichel sets back Murray's plans, then I question those plans. The only way to guarantee acquiring one of them is to finish in last place. There is no way, however, that Murray can guarantee this team finishing last (although it appears he's done as good of a job of that as possible).

 

[Moskau]

People really love to confuse observations with criticisms around here just to debate for no reason.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

You miss my point. I'm not disputing the likely timelines regarding McDavid/Eichel vs no McDavid/Eichel, I'm disputing how you are framing the issue. Yes McDavid or Eichel accelerates the rebuild. The rebuild plans, and fan expectations, should not be designed around acquiring any specific player, though. If not getting McDavid or Eichel sets back Murray's plans, then I question those plans. The only way to guarantee acquiring one of them is to finish in last place. There is no way, however, that Murray can guarantee this team finishing last (although it appears he's done as good of a job of that as possible).

I disagree that Murray has no was to make sure we finish last....sure there is a chance but....

1. Risto is definitely one of our top four dmen right now, sending him to Rochester and playing say Satchran makes us weaker.

2. This almost makes me vomit writing this but he could send Girgesons to Rochester too.

3. Trade Stewart and Stafford for cap dumps.

4. Fill the team with waiver pick ups like last year.

It would not be unheard of to send the 20 and unders down under the disguise of development, future team chemistry, and publically stating "we thougt the additions of Gionta, Moulson, Gorges, Mez and Pouilite would make us better but it didn't."

But to my point, he (Murray) could really effect the roster, thus making us worse.

 

[Bps21*]

Or he could just wait. They're going to finish at the bottom with or without moves. Have they outplayed anyone yet? Maybe Carolina down 4 top players? Barely? Shootouts are inflating the record...and btw...they are one point out of last and have played 3 more games. By the end of the season they'll be where they should be.

hell...decent odds they're in last the next time they touch the puck. Still with extra games played too.

 

[CarlWinslow]

You just described Eichel.

Isn't Eichel more of a Malkin type though?

 

[Paxon]

Isn't Eichel more of a Malkin type though?

Bottom line is that Eichel does have gamebreaking skating. He's not as hyper-kinetic as McDavid and he's not as agile, but his first steps are absolutely explosive and his skating is just all-around strong. Not saying I wouldn't prefer McDavid -- McDavid's simply better in my book -- but either give us that dynamic gamebreaker we need.

 

[EichHart]

I always thought Mike Madano was a great comparison for Eichel. Around same size as well with great speed. 6'3'' 205 lbs- Center- American- play-maker- goal scorer- great speed- acceleration- great shot.

 

[couture23]

Yeah Eichel's skating is insane for a guy of his size. A few of us were watching BU @ Providence last weekend I believe and we all commented on his skating at the exact same time.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728020

"He could probably jump into the NHL right now with his skating ability," United States national junior team coach Mark Osiecki said. "Physical-wise he has a ways to go, but he's an unbelievable talent."

That talent started taking shape in leagues around Boston, and really began to blossom in two seasons with the United States National Team Development Program. He arrived there in the fall of 2012 as one of the younger players in the program, but it didn't take long for his future teammates to know they had someone special playing with them.

"Day 1 of tryout camp for the NTDP, when you saw him skate, that's what stands out, his skating," teammate Sonny Milano said. "Watching him skate, watching him glide around, it's like he flies on the ice."

Eichel is deceptively fast. He blew through the neutral zone during the US Prospects Game. And to think that he could get even stronger and more explosive....

 

[Ethan Edwards]

It's super early, but Eichel is tied for the NCAA lead in Pts/GM with Jake Guentzel of Nebraska-Omaha at 1.8 Pts/GM.

Yes, super early, but your point is a good one, and even better than you may think. Eichel is a freshman as we all know. I can tell you with personal authority that transitioning to college and college hockey is a big challenge in and of itself. It takes a while (times vary, but it's rarely quick) to get adjusted to everything that entails. It helps he's matriculating near to home, but only a bit. So keeping that in mind, and seeing the level he's playing at right off the bat, and against that level of competition, it's very impressive. As he further adjusts, he should get better.

 

[tsujimoto74]

McDavid and Eichel are both such excellent prospects. I'll be thrilled with either (though moreso with McD), but pretty upset if we miss out on both. Having the 3rd pick would make our future D outlook go from looking great to looking elite with Hainifin in the mix, so I could get a bit excited about that, but man do we really need the offense.

Looking at our later 1sts though, anyone liking Korostolev? I just watched my first Sting game recently and thought he was very impressive. Made a couple really nifty plays, including an offensive zone take-away that left him 1-on-0 against the goalie. Granted it was just one game and I'll need some more viewings, but I think I like him.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Jeremy Roy and Svechnikov are both amazing. Would love either.

 

[sabrebuild]

People really love to confuse observations with criticisms around here just to debate for no reason.

Thank you. I would be ecstatic to get McDavid.