Speculation: 2015 - 2016 Coyotes Roster Part 5

[The Feckless Puck]

I'm not ready to move on from Hanzal yet. Even at 60 games a year, he's a very difficult guy to replace.

The unfortunate thing is that we've had to replace him for most of the past three or four seasons.

 

[XX]

I'm not ready to move on from Hanzal yet. Even at 60 games a year, he's a very difficult guy to replace. I'd like to keep him around in the top six for at least another year or two to shelter Strome et al, and then transition to a more conventional third down center sort of role.

Well, if he doesn't have 100% availability and they intend to keep him, they may as well shoot for moving him to the depth role next year. Or just trade him and sign someone like Gaustad.

The immediate future is Strome-Dvorak down the center, and you have Richardson and Vermette both under contract, with Tik possibly coming back, and MacInnis perhaps making an unexpected push next year.

Gaustad, Riley Nash, Darren Helm, Shawn Matthias, Frans Nielsen, Kyle Brodziak, Santorelli etc... are all scheduled to be UFAs. I'm more comfortable with a projected 100% availability of them + the large return from Hanzal than I am leaning on Hanzal to be important next year.

Trading Yandle and then setting up the Coyotes to potentially lure him back was a shrewd move by Maloney. Maybe he didn't get max value (esp. considering the retention) but Hanzal could bring another key piece or some trade ammo. For the right price, he should be had.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Well, if he doesn't have 100% availability and they intend to keep him, they may as well shoot for moving him to the depth role next year. Or just trade him and sign someone like Gaustad.

The immediate future is Strome-Dvorak down the center, and you have Richardson and Vermette both under contract, with Tik possibly coming back, and MacInnis perhaps making an unexpected push next year.

Gaustad, Riley Nash, Darren Helm, Shawn Matthias, Frans Nielsen, Kyle Brodziak, Santorelli etc... are all scheduled to be UFAs. I'm more comfortable with a projected 100% availability of them + the large return from Hanzal than I am leaning on Hanzal to be important next year.

Trading Yandle and then setting up the Coyotes to potentially lure him back was a shrewd move by Maloney. Maybe he didn't get max value (esp. considering the retention) but Hanzal could bring another key piece or some trade ammo. For the right price, he should be had.

I lean more toward XX's point of view in this, I didn't realize there were that many quality 3Cs that are ufas this off season as well. Hanzal when healthy is better than all of them, but that's when healthy.

If this isn't a back injury though I'd stay in the middle a bit and say explore what we can get for him but he's not a must trade, if it is the back yet again I'd say get what you can for him.

 

[PhoPhan]

The unfortunate thing is that we've had to replace him for most of the past three or four seasons.

He played 61 of 82 games in 10-11, 64 of 82 in 11-12, 39 of 48 in 12-13, and then 65 of 82 in 13-14, and then 37 of 82 last year. I count only one season where he didn't play about 75-80% of the season, and I think last season may have gone differently for him had the team not been tanking. That's still a big chunk of missing time, but he's extraordinarily valuable when he's in the lineup. I'd rather have Hanzal for 60 games than Riley Nash or Shawn Matthias for 75 games.

It all comes down to what the return is, of course, but I'm doubtful the return would bring back ready-to-contribute players like Duclair instead of further-down-the-road sorts of assets like draft picks and long-term projects. I'm also doubtful it would bring back a guy who creates the matchup issues Hanzal does. If Hanzal could bring back a Seth Jones or a Rasmus Ristolainen, then sure, pull the trigger. More likely, the package looks like a late first and someone like Noah Juulsen. Decent pieces, but nothing that would start to make an impact for probably 3 years or more.

Strome and Dvorak are, with some luck, the future, but they are not the immediate future. You can't expect them to come in and light it up like Domi has, or even Duclair, especially without Hanzal in the lineup to bolster them. And you certainly can't expect them to have the defensive impact that Hanzal has. Thrusting a rookie into that role too early would expose them, and replacing Hanzal with a defensive specialist means the opposition can deploy their best defensive players against someone else.

As for the injuries, that comes with the territory. Hanzal's injuries this year appear to be of the nagging variety and don't seem necessarily related to the back issue that lingered for a few years. When you play role and situations he plays, you're going to take a beating. That's another reason I don't want a rookie in that role, and why you could expect a free agent replacement to have a similar injury report.

Finally, if all of this incoming talent pans out, there's going to be a lot of roster turnover in the next few years. Maybe more so if the talent doesn't pan out. Doan might have a year left after this one, and if he doesn't pick up his play, the same is likely for Vermette. Ditto Michalek. Gordon and Chipchura are the sorts of guys who get cycled out after a few years. What I'm saying is, opening night the season after next, we could be looking at just OEL and Boedker as the only remnants of the conference championship team. The stability Hanzal could provide through that transition has value, too.

 

[XX]

Strome and Dvorak are, with some luck, the future, but they are not the immediate future. You can't expect them to come in and light it up like Domi has, or even Duclair, especially without Hanzal in the lineup to bolster them. And you certainly can't expect them to have the defensive impact that Hanzal has. Thrusting a rookie into that role too early would expose them, and replacing Hanzal with a defensive specialist means the opposition can deploy their best defensive players against someone else.

Strome and Dvorak are every bit the finished products Domi and Duclair were coming out of junior. I see no reason to not expect them to take to the NHL well. Strome almost made it last camp and was basically cut due to skating and strength. Dvorak was said to be physically ready, but lost a bit of a numbers game. Perlini and MacInnis are wildcards at this point.

Nobody will ever really replace Hanzal defensively, but there are still good players out there that can help lessen the blow. Having more than one line that is a threat to score is also going to help the situation.

I don't buy that the injuries are endemic to his role. It's a function of his size and the stress that puts on things. Every indication from management is that it's chronic and something that needs to be managed. That lessens his value long term but to a playoff team, he's a golden ticket of sorts. Teams pay for that sort of thing. If a team sees him as an answer and puts a top tier prospect on the table, I don't know how you say no.

A projected hypothetical lineup of:

Domi - Strome - Duclair
Perlini - Dvorak - Rieder
Martinook - Nielsen - Boedker
Richardson - Vermette - Doan

... isn't the end of the world. Certainly not in front of a D that I suspect will be heavily improved.

The organization was always going to rise and fall based on the integration of the youth this year and next. Neither year should playoffs be expected. Hanzal is only under contract for one more year. Yandling him should be considered.

 

[Matias Maccete]

The key is the return. If we get a top end and ready in a year D prospect (D version of duke) it would be damn hard to turn down, throw in a 1st and we'd basically have to take it.

 

[XX]

The key is the return. If we get a top end and ready in a year D prospect (D version of duke) it would be damn hard to turn down, throw in a 1st and we'd basically have to take it.

Dallas: Honka
Washington: Bowey
Rangers: McIlrath
Islanders: Pulock, Vande Sompel
Montreal: Juulsen
Boston: Zboril
Ottawa: Chabot
Philly: Sanheim
Tampa: DeAngelo, Koekkoek
San Jose: Mueller
Anaheim: Theodore, Montour

Lots of options out there just in terms of prospects. Of course, some may not be ready next year and some are more valuable than others. Then you have RFAs that are too expensive for cap teams or players that may want out like Trouba. But those players, along with good roster D, aren't likely to be moved for a playoff piece, and that's when Hanzal's value will be at its peak. I wouldn't trade him at the draft because I'd expect much lower offers.

 

[Jakey53]

So, what is everyone's belief on Hanzal? Was on pace for career high in points this year. Then the injury bug hit again. Although not his back, it is still disappointing to see someone injured constantly.

With the number of centers coming up, as well as Tik starting to play well in some limited time at C, do we move on from Hanzal at the trade deadline? Assuming that we do not resign Gordon and Chip next year and move on from Hanzal, our C depth (in no particular order) is:

Vermette
Richardson
Tikhonov
Strome
Dvorak

I think that we could get a cap dump at C (possibly signed through next year) and a similar return as what we got for Vermette player/pick wise.

Anyone else reaching this thought process as well? The talent has always been there, but the health has not...

That's a tough question to answer. We are a better team with him no doubt, but injuries are a concern and because of that can we get the value back that we need. We may be better off to keep him and with great talent coming try to lessen his work load.

 

[Jakey53]

I lean more toward XX's point of view in this, I didn't realize there were that many quality 3Cs that are ufas this off season as well. Hanzal when healthy is better than all of them, but that's when healthy.

If this isn't a back injury though I'd stay in the middle a bit and say explore what we can get for him but he's not a must trade, if it is the back yet again I'd say get what you can for him.

Most times the good quality UFA's are off the board when the time comes around, and the remaining usually get paid more than they are worth, although that may be changing a bit because of cap problems with some teams.

 

[cobra427]

Strome and Dvorak are every bit the finished products Domi and Duclair were coming out of junior. I see no reason to not expect them to take to the NHL well. Strome almost made it last camp and was basically cut due to skating and strength. Dvorak was said to be physically ready, but lost a bit of a numbers game. Perlini and MacInnis are wildcards at this point.

Nobody will ever really replace Hanzal defensively, but there are still good players out there that can help lessen the blow. Having more than one line that is a threat to score is also going to help the situation.

I don't buy that the injuries are endemic to his role. It's a function of his size and the stress that puts on things. Every indication from management is that it's chronic and something that needs to be managed. That lessens his value long term but to a playoff team, he's a golden ticket of sorts. Teams pay for that sort of thing. If a team sees him as an answer and puts a top tier prospect on the table, I don't know how you say no.

A projected hypothetical lineup of:



... isn't the end of the world. Certainly not in front of a D that I suspect will be heavily improved.

The organization was always going to rise and fall based on the integration of the youth this year and next. Neither year should playoffs be expected. Hanzal is only under contract for one more year. Yandling him should be considered.

Domi Duclair are wingers, which is the easiest position to break into the NHL. Strome and Dvorak at the same level, will have a much harder time breaking in as centers. They would have way more responsibility on D and on the dot.

 

[Grimes]

Domi Duclair are wingers, which is the easiest position to break into the NHL. Strome and Dvorak at the same level, will have a much harder time breaking in as centers. They would have way more responsibility on D and on the dot.

I'd be comfortable slotting Dvorak at wing at times to adjust this.

xx posted some really nice UFA center pieces. I would hope Vermette has some nagging issues and plays stronger next season.

Gaustad and Matthias have big bodies that could fit into a checking role. Helm is very responsible on all ends and a nice 3C. Nielsen would be a huge signing and could easily play on the 2nd line. While none will replace Hanzal completely the decision to sign him his UFA year is going to be painful. Getting nice assets now seems like a better fit. Less UFA defensemen this offseason.


Domi - Strome - Duclair
Dvorak - Nielsen - Boedker
Perlini- Vermette - Reider
Martinook - Richardson - Doan

Looks nice tome too.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Because of his injury history, especially his back, it will hurt his trade value. 1c/2c's like Hanzal are just too hard to find and replace. We can't rely on Strome or any other young guy to replace him. We have to hope his injury is not back related. If we could trade him for RJ fine, but CBJ would be afraid of his injuries, same with RNH or Matt Duchene. The bottom line is that we would get discounted value for him, so I had rather keep him a few more years for the transition to Strome and others. If Hanzal beats the injury bug, great, if not he helps the transition. And, I would sign Gordon, we are as a team, 1st on the dot this year.

The injury can hurt his value, yes. But I am thinking something like Hanzal and a conditional 5th round pick (if he misses x amount of games, no compensation if he misses fewer than that). The idea is that a team who needs that shutdown 3rd line C in a short time window is willing to get him for that year and a half and hope he stays in there for 75% of the games.

I'm not ready to move on from Hanzal yet. Even at 60 games a year, he's a very difficult guy to replace. I'd like to keep him around in the top six for at least another year or two to shelter Strome et al, and then transition to a more conventional third down center sort of role.

Well, Hanzal is only signed through next year, so we'd have to commit to another deal for 2-4 years where the likelihood is that he will get less healthy, and not more. As others have mentioned, Vermette and Richardson could be our de facto bottom 6 centers in that same time. Strome, Tik, Dvorak, MacInnis, re-signing Gordon are all options. Or finding another center who will play shutdown minutes. His size is more difficult to replace than his game, IMO...

 

[BUX7PHX]

Dallas: Honka
Washington: Bowey
Rangers: McIlrath
Islanders: Pulock, Vande Sompel
Montreal: Juulsen
Boston: Zboril
Ottawa: Chabot
Philly: Sanheim
Tampa: DeAngelo, Koekkoek
San Jose: Mueller
Anaheim: Theodore, Montour

Lots of options out there just in terms of prospects. Of course, some may not be ready next year and some are more valuable than others. Then you have RFAs that are too expensive for cap teams or players that may want out like Trouba. But those players, along with good roster D, aren't likely to be moved for a playoff piece, and that's when Hanzal's value will be at its peak. I wouldn't trade him at the draft because I'd expect much lower offers.

Definitely a good list.

Pulock and NYI 2nd for Hanzal and a conditional 5th at the deadline may make sense. Not sure how much else we could squeeze out of that type of deal. Also will want to look at both left and right hand D. Grossmann is a UFA after this season, so while right hand D is important, I think either is acceptable to return.

 

[lanky]

I might be in favour of trading Hanzal 14 months from now, depending on how things play out. However, I am strongly against trading him any time sooner than that.

 

[kihekah19*]

I might be in favour of trading Hanzal 14 months from now, depending on how things play out. However, I am strongly against trading him any time sooner than that.

I've got to agree with this. Marty's value runs deeper than on ice duties, When considering what he can pass along to the younger players

 

[crazyhockeylover96]

So to keep the reunion theme, we could claim Rundblad 2.0.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I might be in favour of trading Hanzal 14 months from now, depending on how things play out. However, I am strongly against trading him any time sooner than that.

The trade deadline next year is also a very plausible idea. The only question becomes whether or not he will be healthy enough to extract the most value.

I know our record has usually been very good with Marty in the lineup and not so good without him, but it seems like this year, we are seeing some positive trends without him in the lineup. And if Dvorak is considered to be as strong of a two-way player as everyone is suggesting, the drop off may not be as considerable as once thought.

Right now, if it came down to extending Hanzal or extending Boedker, I'd give more value to extending Boedker at this time.

 

[More Cooley]

How long is Hanzal out?

 

[Nordic*]

I have wondered for a long time, why OEL get so few assists?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I have wondered for a long time, why OEL get so few assists?

We lack talented forwards. This should change over the next two years.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I have wondered for a long time, why OEL get so few assists?

He's the only one who can score lol. He's also a better finisher than passer, but he still is a very good passer.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

He's the only one who can score lol. He's also a better finisher than passer, but he still is a very good passer.

Same difference between someone like Vrbata and someone like Domi

OEL is more Vrbata, Yandle was a defensemen who will be more of a playmaker.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Same difference between someone like Vrbata and someone like Domi

OEL is more Vrbata, Yandle was a defensemen who will be more of a playmaker.

Yup.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I have wondered for a long time, why OEL get so few assists?

Also our only real threat to be able to move the puck efficiently at the blue line. Teams will take more precaution in taking him out of the game and trying to make our other defensemen beat them.

 

[Jakey53]

We wouldn't be in this pickle on D if Rundblad and Gormley turned out. Both busts.