Prospect Info: 2015-16 Top 20 Flyers Prospects FINAL RESULTS

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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I liked Gus, especially when he had chemistry with Schenn. But the brutal fact is he's not an NHL caliber player. That's why he's not in the NHL.

That's not a valid criteria in 2015. Under your criteria, Michael Raffl wasn't good enough to be in the top league in Sweden, much less the NHL, as recent as three years ago, and he basically jumped straight to the NHL.

The very best KHL players aren't appreciably better or worse than some NHL players. Just because you're not in the NHL doesn't mean you don't belong there. The Flyers just gave a 32-year old defenseman $3M and he's never played a game on this continent (other than the Olympics), and it's very very very unlikely that he is an NHL caliber player at age 32 when he wasn't at age 30. Likewise Bellemare at a slightly younger age. And guys like Carl Soderberg and Jori Lehtera who are important players on their teams.

Almost every team now are trying to sign players from the KHL. Vladimir Sobotka is another player who should be in the NHL but is in the KHL for similar reasons why Gus left: more ice time and more money.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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Sep 24, 2009
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Speaking of overrated on this board, I see that Sunshine still hasn't signed.

Careful, man. He put up stats that could almost be considered decent in the AHL, playing on the second best team in the league. I'm sure there is a completely reasonable explanation and defense as to why he is still a legit goalie prospect and how stupid Homer was to let his rights expire!
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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That's not a valid criteria in 2015. Under your criteria, Michael Raffl wasn't good enough to be in the top league in Sweden, much less the NHL, as recent as three years ago, and he basically jumped straight to the NHL.

The very best KHL players aren't appreciably better or worse than some NHL players. Just because you're not in the NHL doesn't mean you don't belong there. The Flyers just gave a 32-year old defenseman $3M and he's never played a game on this continent (other than the Olympics), and it's very very very unlikely that he is an NHL caliber player at age 32 when he wasn't at age 30. Likewise Bellemare at a slightly younger age. And guys like Carl Soderberg and Jori Lehtera who are important players on their teams.

Almost every team now are trying to sign players from the KHL. Vladimir Sobotka is another player who should be in the NHL but is in the KHL for similar reasons why Gus left: more ice time and more money.

But that isn't exactly true. Gus expressed interest in returning the Flyers (i.e., the NHL). There are 29 other teams that could have made him an offer. He made $1 million in the NHL his last contract...how much is he making in the Swiss league? If he is a legitimate everyday NHL defenseman (which some people seem to think is the case), you are telling me that there is not a team in the NHL that would be willing to sign him for the $1.2 million and not have had to give up anything for RFA compensation? Or did he just want to play for the Flyers and when they didn't have room he decided to play in Switzerland? Or maybe, just maybe, it is possible that teams around the NHL do not view him as a legitimate NHL defenseman?
 

OrangeAndBlackMetal

Dark Wizard of the Black Cascade
Aug 14, 2009
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I'll agree that Gus was absurdly overrated on here. He's the type of player you can grab off of the leftovers pile in september. He might have been used as a top 4 defenseman on our squad, which severely lacked any depth whatsoever, but you could have gone to any junior team and pointed at any random defenseman and he could have been played as a top 4 defenseman on this team for a while.

i'm not saying Gus was terrible, but he's nothing more than an average 6-7 guy in this league.
 

Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
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42,244
Gus was used on the 3rd pairing in 13-14, but that 3rd pairing with LSchenn actually looked good.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
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Pennsylvania
Anyone who thinks Gus was overrated here must be going bald from things flying over their head so often. The amount of times this has been explained and then ignored must be a record.

Saying he was overrated would mean that people thought he was better than he was, which is not the case. We knew exactly what he was... a 5/6/7/whatever that was merely a better option than Grossmann or Mez or Gil or whoever else was played in front of him.

That's it.... it's really just that simple. He wasn't some amazing defender... he was just marginally better than our other crap.

Could he have been more than just a bottom pairing defensemen or a sub? Probably not, but we'll never know since he was never given the chance he should have got when we had vacancies that were then given to worse players.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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Anyone who thinks Gus was overrated here must be going bald from things flying over their head so often. The amount of times this has been explained and then ignored must be a record.

Saying he was overrated would mean that people thought he was better than he was, which is not the case. We knew exactly what he was... a 5/6/7/whatever that was merely a better option than Grossmann or Mez or Gil or whoever else was played in front of him.

That's it.... it's really just that simple. He wasn't some amazing defender... he was just marginally better than our other crap.

Could he have been more than just a bottom pairing defensemen or a sub? Probably not, but we'll never know since he was never given the chance he should have got when we had vacancies that were then given to worse players.

Go back and look at some older threads. People were penciling him on the second pair and saying he's a top four defender after his first 60 games or so over three years. Or they would say stuff like, "he's not a top four defender but he can play top four minutes." That way, you can come back and say, "WELL I NEVER SAID HE WAS A TOP FOUR DEFENDER!" Bottom line was that people were in love with the guy, a fringe bottom pair NHLer. I wager if we took a poll people would still rank Gus above at least half of our current defensive corps (Schultz, Gudas, Schenn, AMac, and possibly MDZ).
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Pennsylvania
He was penciled into the top 4 BECAUSE of the lack of other better options, not because he was legitimate top 4.

I'm not saying literally nobody ever said it in the history of this website, I'm sure it would be possible to find someone who thinks he was/is a legit top 4 guy, but to complain about Gus being overrated as much you you guys do makes it seem like it was a popular opinion that he was a legitimate top 4 player. If you guys are going to keep saying that someone was seriously overrated on this board then you should at least be talking about a big group or else it just looks like pointless complaining.

You also always say how people were "in love" with Gus, which is you ignoring the reality of why he was constantly talked about. What we "loved" was the idea of icing the best possible lineup every ****ing game, especially in the playoffs. You don't do that by playing clearly inferior defensemen over someone who's just wasting away in the pressbox.


And yes, if we could go back in time I'd still put him in the top 4 if it meant that guys like Grossmann, Mez, Gil, ect were playing less. Over the current group? Nope. Everyone Gus was clearly better than is now gone so we have no use for him.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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But that isn't exactly true. Gus expressed interest in returning the Flyers (i.e., the NHL). There are 29 other teams that could have made him an offer. He made $1 million in the NHL his last contract...how much is he making in the Swiss league? If he is a legitimate everyday NHL defenseman (which some people seem to think is the case), you are telling me that there is not a team in the NHL that would be willing to sign him for the $1.2 million and not have had to give up anything for RFA compensation? Or did he just want to play for the Flyers and when they didn't have room he decided to play in Switzerland? Or maybe, just maybe, it is possible that teams around the NHL do not view him as a legitimate NHL defenseman?

Teams keep thinking John Scott and Zac Rinaldo are NHL players, I don't need to see anything else to know that those teams are wrong.
 

Ryker

Registered User
Oct 3, 2008
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Teams keep thinking John Scott and Zac Rinaldo are NHL players, I don't need to see anything else to know that those teams are wrong.
If they're wrong in thinking that, then that still doesn't imply they're also wrong in thinking other things pertaining to their roster (e.g. Gus not being worthy of an NHL contract), though.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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If they're wrong in thinking that, then that still doesn't imply they're also wrong in thinking other things pertaining to their roster (e.g. Gus not being worthy of an NHL contract), though.

It doesn't, but not because "we said so" which is what was implied. Gus is still, at worst, as good as Andrew MacDonald, but Gus didn't cost the team two draft picks and a cap-killing contract.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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Teams keep thinking John Scott and Zac Rinaldo are NHL players, I don't need to see anything else to know that those teams are wrong.

Look, I get it, just because someone is a professional and has experience doesn't mean they are right all the time. I have no argument with that. But you really have to ask yourself...if every single team in the NHL passed on this guy, there has to be a reason. They can't all be so stupid that there is this player that is cheap, young, and good (good enough at least to be an every day NHL player) and they are just ignoring him. Someone has seen him play. Someone has spoken to his agent. I suppose it is completely possible, because guys slip through the cracks all the time, but it just seems like that is the exception, not the rule.
 

tuckrr

Registered User
Nov 28, 2008
2,761
4
It doesn't, but not because "we said so" which is what was implied. Gus is still, at worst, as good as Andrew MacDonald, but Gus didn't cost the team two draft picks and a cap-killing contract.

Gus is not as good as AMac. This is exactly what we are talking about.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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1 - Ivan Provorov - D (59%)
2 - Travis Sanheim - D (88%)
3 - Samuel Morin - D (67%)
4 - Shayne Gostisbehere - D (47%)
5 - Travis Konecny - F (83%)
6 - Scott Laughton - F (84%)
7 - Robert Hagg - D (58%)
8 - Nicholas Aube-Kubel - F (68%)
9 - Oskar Lindblom - F (37%)
10 - Nick Cousins - F (37%)
11 - Anthony Stolarz - G (60%)
12 - Mark Friedman - D (47%)
13 - Felix Sandstrom - G (34%)
14 - Taylor Leier - F (31%)
15 - Radel Fazeleev - F (46%)
16 - Matej Tomek - G (33%)
17 - Danick Martel - F (25%)
18 - Mark Alt - D (28%)
19 - Christian Marti - D (32%)
20 - Mikhail Vorobyov - F (37%)

I'd done running these polls, but the next two guys in line based on the 20th poll are Kase and Goulbourne. You can find all the polls here:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21&prefixid=t4

Except for #15 because I accidentally labelled it as a Proposal instead of Prospect Info.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1930559&highlight=2015+top+flyers+prospects

As a comparison, here is Pittsburgh....yuck.

2015 poll results:
#1 Matt Murray (54.48%)
#2 Daniel Sprong (40.14%)
#3 Oskar Sundqvist (50.00%)
#4 Brian Dumoulin (83.33%)
#5 Tristan Jarry (36.73%)
#6 Dominik Simon (37.08%)
#7 Scott Wilson (45.59%)
#8 Conor Sheary (34.12%)
#9 Jake Guentzel (47.06%)
#10 Bryan Rust (50.00%)
#11 Teddy Blueger (40.00%)
#12 Adam Clendening (27.50%)
#13 Josh Archibald (39.68%)
#14 Frederik Tiffels (28.17% in full voting round, 75.00% in runoff)
#15 Anton Zlobin (29.58% in full voting round, 25.00% in runoff)
#16 Jeff Taylor (27.27%)
 

JWEKD

Registered User
Apr 9, 2013
514
109
In that comparison with Pittsburgh...

The Flyers top 10 has seen or will see time in the NHL (barring injury).

Pittsburgh have about 5 guys in that situation.
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
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Sep 28, 2014
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As a comparison, here is Pittsburgh....yuck.

2015 poll results:
#1 Matt Murray (54.48%)
#2 Daniel Sprong (40.14%)
#3 Oskar Sundqvist (50.00%)
#4 Brian Dumoulin (83.33%)
#5 Tristan Jarry (36.73%)
#6 Dominik Simon (37.08%)
#7 Scott Wilson (45.59%)
#8 Conor Sheary (34.12%)
#9 Jake Guentzel (47.06%)
#10 Bryan Rust (50.00%)
#11 Teddy Blueger (40.00%)
#12 Adam Clendening (27.50%)
#13 Josh Archibald (39.68%)
#14 Frederik Tiffels (28.17% in full voting round, 75.00% in runoff)
#15 Anton Zlobin (29.58% in full voting round, 25.00% in runoff)
#16 Jeff Taylor (27.27%)

That is ugly! Looks like where the Flyers were before the 2012 draft.
 

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