Post-Game Talk: 2014 NHL Draft Day 2

[arsmaster*]

STL had one of the best drafts. VAN is not the "winner" considering what STL did.

Anyways, people can appeal to authority here. Probably no one on this board is as good as an NHL scout in finding players. However, from what little we have learned, this team still isn't getting value at their pick positions. Bette players are being passed over.

Happened in 2009 with Rodin/Tatar. Happened in 2011, with the trade down, forgoing Trocheck for Honzik. Happened in 2012, when Mallet was taken ahead of Severson.

These are all missteps that people called and were right about. That looks to be repeated here, but I guess time will tell.

St. Louis, Dallas, Anaheim, LA....all teams noted for churning out home grown prospects. All had very good drafts.

I like our first 3 picks, if have made different selections at each spot but I really like Virtanen.

I think you could make a case we had a top 10 draft, but I like other teams drafts better.

 

[Tiranis]

St. Louis, Dallas, Anaheim, LA....all teams noted for churning out home grown prospects. All had very good drafts.

I like our first 3 picks, if have made different selections at each spot but I really like Virtanen.

I think you could make a case we had a top 10 draft, but I like other teams drafts better.

When you pick in the top 10 and have two 1st rounders then you better be in the top 10 for draft quality. If not, you're probably doing something wrong.

On that note, don't think I've seen a single place declare us a winner. Read close to 10 articles now. Hell, I've seen us called 'losers' more often than not. Especially in regards to the trades.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

STL had one of the best drafts. VAN is not the "winner" considering what STL did.

Anyways, people can appeal to authority here. Probably no one on this board is as good as an NHL scout in finding players. However, from what little we have learned, this team still isn't getting value at their pick positions. Bette players are being passed over.

Happened in 2009 with Rodin/Tatar. Happened in 2011, with the trade down, forgoing Trocheck for Honzik. Happened in 2012, when Mallet was taken ahead of Severson.

These are all missteps that people called and were right about. That looks to be repeated here, but I guess time will tell.

Blues and Preds had the best drafts, IMO.

 

[thegutter]

We're after 6'7" meat and potatoes not 5'7". That is why.

Hicketts is a first round talent but he's smaller than many of the Canadian women's hockey team. Not a recipe for success in the NHL. Especially when meat and potatoes is the new mantra for the organization.

Id rather they take the chance at getting a tobias enstrom than a john scott

 

[Bleach Clean]

Also think SJ and COL were full value as well. SJ walked away with Rod, Sadowy, Chartier, Schoenborn and Vanier. All good top90 type picks.

COL got Bleackley, Magyar and Nantel. Took chances on Wood and Pepin. Lindbolm too. For a team that had a poor position, they got good value.

Could be grass is always greener, but these teams have earned the respect of the scouting community. They then perform well at their relative draft positions. Time and again. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Bean in Charge]

STL had one of the best drafts. VAN is not the "winner" considering what STL did.

Anyways, people can appeal to authority here. Probably no one on this board is as good as an NHL scout in finding players. However, from what little we have learned, this team still isn't getting value at their pick positions. Bette players are being passed over.

Happened in 2009 with Rodin/Tatar. Happened in 2011, with the trade down, forgoing Trocheck for Honzik. Happened in 2012, when Mallet was taken ahead of Severson.

These are all missteps that people called and were right about. That looks to be repeated here, but I guess time will tell.

While that hindsight may be true for those guys, how many times have we been "wrong" (in that the Canucks selected a player that went against the wishes of the Canucks HF hoard and it worked out better? Or the guy the Canucks HF hoard wanted ended up busting)?

Easy to look back at the feel-good what if stories and paint a rosier picture than it may be... (and for the record, I have no idea what the past consensus picks for this board has been)

 

[Bleach Clean]

While that hindsight may be true for those guys, how many times have we been "wrong" (in that the Canucks selected a player that went against the wishes of the Canucks HF hoard and it worked out better? Or the guy the Canucks HF hoard wanted ended up busting)?

Easy to look back at the feel-good what if stories and paint a rosier picture than it may be... (and for the record, I have no idea what the past consensus picks for this board has been)

That stuff was called at the time, no hindsight involved. Go search the draft threads.

And it's true, sometimes fans here make the wrong call, and the player turns out better: like Ryan Kesler. However, I would forgo Kesler to draft better on the whole. Risk I'm willing to take.

 

[arsmaster*]

Also think SJ and COL were full value as well. SJ walked away with Rod, Sadowy, Chartier, Schoenborn and Vanier. All good top90 type picks.

COL got Bleackley, Magyar and Nantel. Took chances on Wood and Pepin. Lindbolm too. For a team that had a poor position, they got good value.

Could be grass is always greener, but these teams have earned the respect of the scouting community. They then perform well at their relative draft positions. Time and again. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not as high on San Jose's draft. But at least you don't find yourself saying "who?"

I like colorados too.

 

[Tiranis]

That stuff was called at the time, no hindsight involved. Go search the draft threads.

And it's true, sometimes fans here make the wrong call, and the player turns out better: like Ryan Kesler. However, I would forgo Kesler to draft better on the whole. Risk I'm willing to take.

I would argue that this has generally improved as junior games have become more and more available.

 

[CanaFan]

STL had one of the best drafts. VAN is not the "winner" considering what STL did.

I don't think the poster was saying we are being referred to as _the_ winners but that we are "winners" as in "among those that did best".

Honestly I think most people on this board would admit we had at least a productive draft in the first 5 rounds. Yes the last two seem like stinkers but the damage is mainly "philosophical" as opposed to "applied". We all know the odds of any pick in that range turning into anything are minuscule. Yes the thinking stinks but the actual harm is nearly zero.

That non-Canuck fans and analysts generally view our draft as a positive should count for something as we rarely if ever get unwarranted praise from anyone.

 

[RealGudbranson]

Honestly I think most people on this board would admit we had at least a productive draft in the first 5 rounds. Yes the last two seem like stinkers but the damage is mainly "philosophical" as opposed to "applied". We all know the odds of any pick in that range turning into anything are minuscule. Yes the thinking stinks but the actual harm is nearly zero.

That non-Canuck fans and analysts generally view our draft as a positive should count for something as we rarely if ever get unwarranted praise from anyone.

Great post. Also, for anyone really feeling down about our last two picks, should take a gander at all the Oilers later round picks. It's like Gillis' 2010 draft all over again.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

Ugh I'm hoping benning is planning on using this draft to gauge the effectiveness of the Canuck scouting staff and he only had input on the first few picks. I really liked gillis (admittedly fairly recent) direction to aim for skill in the last few picks. Picking players with no skill will almost never work while picking players with some skill works a great deal of the time more.

If Benning is going to do that then he's gonna wind up like Gillis...fired by an impatient owner with an unhappy fanbase sick of watching a boring no-talent team.
It will take years to determine how good/bad our drafting was this year and by that time,we've squandered several more drafts with the same kind of crappy picks that have no pro potential.Changes need to be made this year.
Benning has shown that he's not shy about asking underperforming players to waive their NTCs,hopefully he'll take that same approach with certain members of our scouting staff.

 

[m9]

Last year everyone here thought Cole Cassels was our worst pick, and one year later he looks like our best pick from a pure value standpoint. In a re-draft thread last year I don't think anyone wanted him. So, who knows.

For me, this year there was always a clear top four and it's disappointing that we came close but couldn't snag one. Calgary has snagged two guys in Monahan and Bennett a couple picks ahead of us in back-to-back years that I think were a tier ahead what we got. I am a big fan of aggressively moving up and down based on value and not letting the draft fall to you.

 

[Tiranis]

Last year everyone here thought Cole Cassels was our worst pick, and one year later he looks like our best pick from a pure value standpoint. In a re-draft thread last year I don't think anyone wanted him. So, who knows.

Source? Because I most definitely remember thefeebster, myself and many others saying it was a good pick.

 

[m9]

Source? Because I most definitely remember thefeebster, myself and many others saying it was a good pick.

In the 2013 "So you think you can draft" thread, 0 out of the 20+ posters chose Cole Cassels. You did not post in the thread.

Now, many others made good choices. Bjorkstrand, etc.

 

[opendoor]

The Cassels draft thread from last year seems mostly positive, so I'm not sure where the idea that he was seen as a poor pick on here is coming from:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1458325

 

[Pip]

In the 2013 "So you think you can draft" thread, 0 out of the 20+ posters chose Cole Cassels. You did not post in the thread.

Now, many others made good choices. Bjorkstrand, etc.

I think the thing was with Cassels is that there was one player that a majority on this board wanted in Bjorkstrand, and not getting him was disappointing for quite a few people. That may of made it seem like everyone wasnt a fan of the Cassels pick. Similar to this year with McCann. A really solid prospect but most here wanted Barabashev.

Not getting your guy doesn't necessarily mean that it was a bad pick

 

[David71]

last 2 rounds were like **** i'll pick whoever is is left randomly. it was like wtf moves. who the heck is Petit

 

[m9]

I think the thing was with Cassels is that there was one player that a majority on this board wanted in Bjorkstrand, and not getting him was disappointing for quite a few people. That may of made it seem like everyone wasnt a fan of the Cassels pick. Similar to this year with McCann. A really solid prospect but most here wanted Barabashev.

Not getting your guy doesn't necessarily mean that it was a bad pick

Lots of people liked Subban over Cassels as well, but since we got him anyway nobody really cared an hour later.

 

[me2]

That stuff was called at the time, no hindsight involved. Go search the draft threads.

And it's true, sometimes fans here make the wrong call, and the player turns out better: like Ryan Kesler. However, I would forgo Kesler to draft better on the whole. Risk I'm willing to take.

I'd downgrade from Kesler to Richards to upgrade from Bourdon to Kopitar.

 

[vanuck]

You're really not understanding what I'm saying.

I posted saying that it's ridiculous how people make blanket statements like " every move has been awful and I'm done"

And as well it's ridiculous if people say " every move is great! Benning for pm"

Which is not what I'm saying at all. I haven't said any of that blind benning love.

I was unsure with the virtanen pick and still is taking me torn to think about it and it's growing on me. Garrison deal? Still confused.

You're mistaking my criticism of hyperbolic emo posters with me somehow being in love with benning.

What's my take on him so far? I generally like the direction he's going, but I still need time to evaluate his moves and see how the rest of the summer goes with ufas etc and trades.

Right now I would give the new regime a B

I was commenting on the appeals to authority which frankly is annoying, but mostly I was just taking issue with the "no discussion is allowed because you don't know better" thing that was going on from a few people. I'm not accusing you of it, but that stuff really makes this place unreadable.

I don't hate Virtanen, I just wouldn't have picked him over Ehlers. I don't hate McCann, I just wouldn't have picked him over Barbashev. I don't hate Demko, I just wouldn't have picked him over Donato, or McKeown. The Kesler trade and how it was handled didn't instill confidence, giving away Garrison was a head scratcher but there must be a plan behind it (I'm hoping), and the trade for Dorsett was just plain Pejorative Slured.

So if you are left boggled by the decisions and are left questioning the direction this management group is taking, are you just supposed to leave your concerns buried and hop on the blind faith bandwagon?

All of this. And then some.

 

[jigsaw99]

I'd downgrade from Kesler to Richards to upgrade from Bourdon to Kopitar.

Richards may suck now but in his prime he was more dominate than Kesler and more capable of playing 1st line center as oppose to 2nd line. Richards still has more points than Kes in overall points in his career, is a better leader, and been to the finals 3 times and has 2 cups. i wouldn't even call it a downgrade.

 

[vanuck]

I hope no one is expecting NHL players out of those 6th/7th round picks. That was ugly.

Was wondering if anyone else was feeling like those late rounders were just throwaway picks on our part, taking guys with almost no upside. Just don't see the logic in not going boom-or-bust at this point. Feels like every other team but us does this.

 

[vanuck]

Great post. Also, for anyone really feeling down about our last two picks, should take a gander at all the Oilers later round picks. It's like Gillis' 2010 draft all over again.

I don't think anyone should be comparing us to the Oilers to make ourselves feel better. Ever.

In the 2013 "So you think you can draft" thread, 0 out of the 20+ posters chose Cole Cassels. You did not post in the thread.

Now, many others made good choices. Bjorkstrand, etc.

Did we do one for this year? Would be really interesting to see actually...

Edit: found it.

 

[LolClarkson*]

I don't think the poster was saying we are being referred to as _the_ winners but that we are "winners" as in "among those that did best".

Honestly I think most people on this board would admit we had at least a productive draft in the first 5 rounds. Yes the last two seem like stinkers but the damage is mainly "philosophical" as opposed to "applied". We all know the odds of any pick in that range turning into anything are minuscule. Yes the thinking stinks but the actual harm is nearly zero.

That non-Canuck fans and analysts generally view our draft as a positive should count for something as we rarely if ever get unwarranted praise from anyone.

To anyone paying attention, were we going with BPA's in these rounds generally ? or going way off the board ?