2014 Free Agency drags on ...

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Jozay

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Jul 9, 2012
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How old are these players? From the lines that you gave, here are the ages:

22 - 23 - 26

21 - 30 - 28

24 - 30 - 26

They also have Cizikas at 23 and Lee at 24.

That's fine if you want to ignore my point just above that one to make yours, but I'm saying that they need more veterans around them. The oldest player upfront is 30? You absolutely need a mix of young players and veterans.
They're not gonna trade Strome for a veteran, and you dont necessarily need veterans around your young core. Thats really just your opinion.
 

Jozay

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This is the problem that I'm trying to stress.

You NEED older players to succeed. Look at any successful team that has won the cup.

I get that if you want to be a team that is constantly picking in the top 10, then continue to go with "play the kids" mentality. Since 2008, the Islanders have picked in the top 5 five times. And within that time they picked 9th and 15th also.

Look at teams that win. They have a mix of development, drafting high, but also surrounding their players with complimentary players to succeed. I think the Islanders have got the good young players, do a good enough job of development, but the one area that they fail in is getting players around them because the kids aren't going to learn from other kids that have been in the league for a handful of years. If they don't want to trade Strome, then another youngster has to go.

But they need a player like the guys that I mentioned. They don't exactly have to be the 3 that I mentioned, but something like that.

Ideally, they should be trying to land Patrick Sharp. I think that's a perfect fit for a top line with JT and Okposo. Then you shift players where they should be playing. Brock Nelson isn't a top line player. He could be eventually, but not next year.

Also, the guys that you mentioned are defencemen. And if Matt Carkner is your example, I'd be a bit worried.
Why does a player have to be old? Like the poster said, theres plenty of guys with 5 or 6 years of experience in the league, which matters more.
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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I wasn't making the case to acquire Strome. I was saying that you would have to throw in Percy or Finn to acquire Strome. I don't think his value is as high as what people think it is. I understand where he was drafted, but that shouldn't dictate what he is traded for.

Strome has done nothing at the NHL level.

Rielly made the team out of camp and at the 2nd toughest position for a rookie to be at. Rielly is heads above where Strome is at in my opinion. Jake Gardiner's ceiling is right around where Strome's would be, but is at more of a valuable position. And to even think that Phaneuf would be in the same breath as Strome is laughable. They would have to include a lot more.

Percy and Finn are in the same bracket as Strome. Percy doesn't get the recognition that others have because he doesn't put up the offensive numbers that they do. But he is a sound defenceman and capable of playing in any situation. Finn is similar to Percy in the sense that he could play in any situation but Finn has a better shot and is probably a bit more physical.

Just because you hear a name being tossed around doesn't mean that they are more or less valuable than what the Leafs currently have. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

I also think you mentioned guys that he wouldn't surpass. I would think that you would get similar production from Holland, Gauthier, Nylander in the sense that they all might not be #1 centremen, but could be quality #2 guys.

So, Percy for Strome then? Doesn't make much sense for the Islanders.
 

Rielly4

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Dec 12, 2012
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Percy is no where near Strome...

Guys Strome would become our 1C very quick.
 

CREW99AW

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Getting older doesn't mean that you're getting worse. That's the mentality though especially on these boards is that every team has to get younger.

In the last 2 yrs, the leafs seasons have fallen apart and their locker room leadership is being called into question. So, on which page have you proposed trading Morgan Rielly or Nylander for a 30 something yr old to add leadership? Leafs need leadership as much, if not more then the Isles and as you point out....
Getting older doesn't mean that you're getting worse

The Islanders will have Dal Colle in the next year or so as well.

MDC is a good 2 yrs away from the NHL at best. He will turn 19 on June 20 2015. Too young for the AHL. The isles made Strome/Nelson/Lee/Nino go to the AHL when they were AHL eligible. No one is penciling MDC into the isles 2015-2016 roster
 

CREW99AW

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Why does a player have to be old? Like the poster said, theres plenty of guys with 5 or 6 years of experience in the league, which matters more.

Snow heavily shopped his 2014 1st. He was quoted saying he wanted a young , high end talent with term. Expect a similar demand if Strome was shopped.

If the isles shopped 20 yr old Strome, they would want someone like 24 yr old E. kane back. Not 32 yr old Sharp.

I am not even sure they'd bite on Evander kane.
24 yr old Kane: $6m. 41 pts in 63 games.
20 yr old Strome: ELC.14 pts in his last 22 games.

I think the isles simply stick with what they have and see how Strome does on a line with skilled players, instead of 3rd line grinders.
 

TheCLAM

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Oct 11, 2012
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Snow heavily shopped his 2014 1st. He was quoted saying he wanted a young , high end talent with term. Expect a similar demand if Strome was shopped.

If the isles shopped 20 yr old Strome, they would want someone like 24 yr old E. kane back. Not 32 yr old Sharp.

I am not even sure they'd bite on Evander kane.
24 yr old Kane: $6m. 41 pts in 63 games.
20 yr old Strome: ELC.14 pts in his last 22 games.

I think the isles simply stick with what they have and see how Strome does on a line with skilled players, instead of 3rd line grinders.

You can't state Kane total season's number and a sample size of Strome. Strome finished with 18 points in 37 games played, which is a 40 point pace. Look at Alex Steen goal scoring numbers through the first 30 games, it doesn't mean you generalize him in that select clip.

Strome was forced into the #1 center role with John Tavares on the IR. He had increased TOI/PP time in the mean-time. He has the talent IMO to be a 60+ point player in the future, but let's not downplay his inconsistency as a rookie. It's something he will need to work upon going into next season, with better line-mates.

What Snow wants, and Snow gets are polar opposites. He may start to get desperate now with Charles Wang leaving the Islanders and new ownership coming into fruition.
 

Budsfan

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Sep 17, 2006
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No d man in the league is getting paid 7 mil per if they are not on there teams top powerplay...

Any 2nd unit Powerplay guy is getting around 5 mil max.

Phaneuf should soon become a 2nd PP unit guy considering how good Rielly and Gardiner are...

I get that Phaneuf is our minute munching guy and he has some defensive prowess compared to the rest of our blueline...But look around the league.

Guys like M.Staal, Girardi, Hamonic, Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic.... These guys are all BETTER minute munching 5 on 5 defensive d men then Dion is... But Dion gets paid more because he also plays the top unit powerplay...If Dion is just a minute munching 5 on 5 guy then id rather have a guy like those listed who is better at it and paid significantly less.

Phanuef plays huge minutes against The other teams best players and he does play on the PP but the supporting cast of partners he has had, are to say the least 3rd pairing defensemen and also Gunnarsson being injured a lot.

Maybe this year with Polak as his partner and returning to the Left side, his strong side, with less minutes and the emergence of Gardiner and Rielly and possibly with the experience of Robidas and hopefully Fanson picking up his game, he will be given less minutes but more productive ones and with the prices defensemen have been signing for, I have no trouble with his contract.
 

Ricky Bobby

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Aug 31, 2008
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No d man in the league is getting paid 7 mil per if they are not on there teams top powerplay...

Any 2nd unit Powerplay guy is getting around 5 mil max.

Phaneuf should soon become a 2nd PP unit guy considering how good Rielly and Gardiner are...

I get that Phaneuf is our minute munching guy and he has some defensive prowess compared to the rest of our blueline...But look around the league.

Guys like M.Staal, Girardi, Hamonic, Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic.... These guys are all BETTER minute munching 5 on 5 defensive d men then Dion is... But Dion gets paid more because he also plays the top unit powerplay...If Dion is just a minute munching 5 on 5 guy then id rather have a guy like those listed who is better at it and paid significantly less.

The guys you mentioned aren't better then Phaneuf but with the exception of Hamonic they have had dramatically better supporting casts surrounding them.

Meanwhile Phaneuf for most of his time in Toronto has had a very poor cast surrounding. He has a # 4 quality Dman in Gunnarson and no 2nd pair to speak of. Or he has been partnered with an AHL calibar player in Kostka or Holzer. He has had average goaltending behind him for most of his time and a very weak defensive group with no # 1 center.

As for Phaneuf being shoved aside from the top PP unit. Everyone is enamoured with Gardiner + Rielly because they are still young + cheap but Phaneuf has a very impressive PP resume throughout his career so we'll see if he gets downgraded to the 2nd pair at some point. In recent seasons Phaneufs numbers may have dipped as he's seen his role shift from shooter to set up man to Kessel + Franson but he has still played the most minutes on what has been one of the better PPs in the league over the last few years.

Meanwhile M. Staal + Girardi have had each other + McDonagh + King Henry backstopping them in recent years. Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic also have been part of some very good D groups and teams in recent seasons.
 

showtime8

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Jun 30, 2010
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Toronto, ON
Snow heavily shopped his 2014 1st. He was quoted saying he wanted a young , high end talent with term. Expect a similar demand if Strome was shopped.

If the isles shopped 20 yr old Strome, they would want someone like 24 yr old E. kane back. Not 32 yr old Sharp.

I am not even sure they'd bite on Evander kane.
24 yr old Kane: $6m. 41 pts in 63 games.
20 yr old Strome: ELC.14 pts in his last 22 games.

I think the isles simply stick with what they have and see how Strome does on a line with skilled players, instead of 3rd line grinders.

The reasons that they want players with term is because it's a hard draw trying to get players to come to the island.

That's why you see them dishing out that sort of money for Nik Kulemin.
 

showtime8

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Jun 30, 2010
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Toronto, ON
They're not gonna trade Strome for a veteran, and you dont necessarily need veterans around your young core. Thats really just your opinion.

Can you name a team within the last 10-20 years that have won with a young team or even contended?
 

SeaOfBlue

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Aug 1, 2013
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If I were to make one (well 2 in 1) moves this offseason, it would be trading Franson and McLaren for a 2nd in 2015 and bust prospect or the like. Then I would trade Holzer/MacWilliam and another prospect for a bottom line defenseman to replace him (or sign one or use them both as the 6 and 7 defensemen; whatever works). Following that I would say this is the order:

1) Carter Ashton for a 4th- no spot on the team, too good for AHL. Essentially Colborne 2.0
2) Colton Orr for a conditional 6th- Becomes a 7th if unsigned or doesn't play enough games. Still is a top enforcer in the league and if he plays like he did two years ago (when our 4th line wasn't the worst in the league. McClement, McLaren and Orr probably played the worst in their careers), he's a good 4th liner.
3) James Reimer and Eric Knodel for conditional 3rd round pick 2016 (becomes 2nd if Reimer plays x number of games over duration of his contract or traded again over duration of contract; condition that will provide a lot of value to the team acquiring Reimer that would exceed what they paid for him), conditional 7th round pick 2015 (becomes 5th round pick if Knodel plays over half of the season; essentially just a 7th which provides more. Once again they would get a lot out of the pick if it's converted) and depth prospect. That's a lot of value for Reimer, and then we either acquire a goalie through FA or trade for prospects/picks; there will be a lot of good replacements available if we choose to go this route.
4)Joffery Lupul for pick and prospect base. I don't want to go into details, which is why this would be the bottom of the list.
5) Tony Cameranesi and Max Everson for John Draeger. Why not bring it back :laugh:

I'm only posting this because I've seen a lot of ridiculous trades on the boards involving the Leafs essentially self destructing and Nonis signing his resignation letter. Whether these trades have been said 100 times before (like number 5), or actually make some sense (Franson, Ashton and Orr trades), I just wanted to put my 2 cents in again so I can remove the Strome, Thornton, Richards and Staal trade ideas from my head.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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Leafs need to do a better job of "composting" redundant assets into useful futures. Guys like Holzer who might be useful to another team should be moved out for mid round picks or other assets at other positions.
 

Jozay

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Jul 9, 2012
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Toronto
Can you name a team within the last 10-20 years that have won with a young team or even contended?

I really couldnt care to look through it, so we'll say you're right.

But younger players can have a decent amount of experience, not just guys who are 30+ years old.
 

Rielly4

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Dec 12, 2012
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The guys you mentioned aren't better then Phaneuf but with the exception of Hamonic they have had dramatically better supporting casts surrounding them.

Meanwhile Phaneuf for most of his time in Toronto has had a very poor cast surrounding. He has a # 4 quality Dman in Gunnarson and no 2nd pair to speak of. Or he has been partnered with an AHL calibar player in Kostka or Holzer. He has had average goaltending behind him for most of his time and a very weak defensive group with no # 1 center.

As for Phaneuf being shoved aside from the top PP unit. Everyone is enamoured with Gardiner + Rielly because they are still young + cheap but Phaneuf has a very impressive PP resume throughout his career so we'll see if he gets downgraded to the 2nd pair at some point. In recent seasons Phaneufs numbers may have dipped as he's seen his role shift from shooter to set up man to Kessel + Franson but he has still played the most minutes on what has been one of the better PPs in the league over the last few years.

Meanwhile M. Staal + Girardi have had each other + McDonagh + King Henry backstopping them in recent years. Alzner, Hamhuis, Vlasic also have been part of some very good D groups and teams in recent seasons.
Hard to argue that...Phaneuf on a team like St Louis or Chicago would be a complete animal... Its just i like Rielly and Gardiner so much better then him offensively...And we could accomplish a decent amount if we got a player like Strome for him having 7 mil in salary room and an amazing young player like Strome...

If Phaneuf for Strome was available i would do it... But there's no way in hell im throwing away a d man like Dion.

But i dont just like Rielly and Gardiner because they are young... All 4 of our PP d men got around 30 points last year, im betting if Gardiner and Rielly played with Kessel JVR they could have been at 40.
 

FifthLine

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Jul 2, 2011
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Hard to argue that...Phaneuf on a team like St Louis or Chicago would be a complete animal... Its just i like Rielly and Gardiner so much better then him offensively...And we could accomplish a decent amount if we got a player like Strome for him having 7 mil in salary room and an amazing young player like Strome...

If Phaneuf for Strome was available i would do it... But there's no way in hell im throwing away a d man like Dion.

But i dont just like Rielly and Gardiner because they are young... All 4 of our PP d men got around 30 points last year, im betting if Gardiner and Rielly played with Kessel JVR they could have been at 40.

Again, you only bring up the PP. Who is going to face the opposing teams 1st line? Whos going to play the #1 PK? Neither Rielly or Gardiner are even close at this point.
 

Mystifo

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May 26, 2011
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Hard to argue that...Phaneuf on a team like St Louis or Chicago would be a complete animal... Its just i like Rielly and Gardiner so much better then him offensively...And we could accomplish a decent amount if we got a player like Strome for him having 7 mil in salary room and an amazing young player like Strome...

If Phaneuf for Strome was available i would do it... But there's no way in hell im throwing away a d man like Dion.

But i dont just like Rielly and Gardiner because they are young... All 4 of our PP d men got around 30 points last year, im betting if Gardiner and Rielly played with Kessel JVR they could have been at 40.

We doing Phaneuf for Strome straight up or is there someone else coming back other than the obvious Bailey cap dump?
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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You can't state Kane total season's number and a sample size of Strome. Strome finished with 18 points in 37 games played, which is a 40 point pace. Look at Alex Steen goal scoring numbers through the first 30 games, it doesn't mean you generalize him in that select clip.

Strome was forced into the #1 center role with John Tavares on the IR. He had increased TOI/PP time in the mean-time. He has the talent IMO to be a 60+ point player in the future, but let's not downplay his inconsistency as a rookie. It's something he will need to work upon going into next season, with better line-mates.

What Snow wants, and Snow gets are polar opposites. He may start to get desperate now with Charles Wang leaving the Islanders and new ownership coming into fruition.

Strome did not become the isles #1 center after JT's Olympic injury.

Strome was called up and played on the 3rd line with Colin MacDonald and Clutterbu k.

And Wang will remain majority owner for 2 more yrs . Snow is not feeling pressure to do something, quick. He had two seasons to ice a competitive product and impress the next owners.
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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They've had the same sort of core for the past 3-4 years.

What have they accomplished?

Halak, Johnson, Grabbo , Kuli are headed to their first seasons on LI.
CDH /Brock Nelson/Clutterbuck joined the team last season. Reinhart /Lee/Strome look NHL ready. Pulock/Pokka are turning pro in Oct.

The only core players from the last 3-4 yrs are Okposo , JT, Fran Nielsen, Hamonic.
 

IWD

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Grabo and Kulemin on the second-line will be good for the Islanders. If they can find someone with decent passing/finishing to hitch a ride with them, they've got secondary-scoring set. I think the Islanders make the playoffs this year. Especially with Halak. I don't think he's a legit #1, but he shows those flashes of brilliance that will be good enough for the playoffs. With JT and the playoffs, the Islanders could go to the semis or at least quarters.
 

Doug Gilmour

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Oct 5, 2010
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Grabo and Kulemin on the second-line will be good for the Islanders. If they can find someone with decent passing/finishing to hitch a ride with them, they've got secondary-scoring set. I think the Islanders make the playoffs this year. Especially with Halak. I don't think he's a legit #1, but he shows those flashes of brilliance that will be good enough for the playoffs. With JT and the playoffs, the Islanders could go to the semis or at least quarters.

As much hate as Snow gets from people, myself included, he has built a solid core from the looks of it that should be a yearly fixture in the playoffs.
 
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