Olympics: 2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part IV)

[1Gold Standard]

You and I are definitely thinking along the same lines. I am willing to throw out Bergeron's 2010 performance, both because he was injured and because he is so much better now. He and Crosby dominated the 2006 WCs on the same line, with Bergeron in the role you just described. A line like:

Tavares Crosby Bergeron

Would not have any weakness, and I trust Bergeron to do a far superior job of what Dupuis does in Pittsburgh. Likewise, I think that Tavares could more than replicate the role played by Kunitz due to his hockey IQ.

I also agree that E. Staal is looking like a lock. I'm curious to see if anyone thinks he would work on a line with Stamkos and St. Louis, either as the LW or the centre. He has the size to fulfill the required board work necessities, and he's a big threat to score or set up someone else on the line. He seems to be thriving with a sniper on his line in Carolina (Semin) so I have optimism that he would work with Stamkos.

This scenario would produce something like:
Tavares Crosby Bergeron
E. Staal Stamkos St. Louis
Sharp Toews Nash

Bergeron is often listed as the fourth line centre, but clearly this would be amended in such a situation. There are loads of options for the fourth line. I would consider a speed line possibly, something built around a combination of Giroux, Duchene, Hall, Seguin, Kane. Could be dangerous, and a nice change of pace.

I've had that line together in my lineup for a few weeks now...although not Bergeron with Sid on the 1st line... only because I wanted the 4 best lines that get more or less equal amounts of ATOI... I like your suggestion but that tells me (if I were coaching the 1st 3 lines will get the bulk of the ice time.) If I were going the route you suggest for the 4th line, then for sure I'd want it Duchene Giroux Seguin. I prefer Seguin over Hall or Kane at this point because I think he thinks the game better. but that's just me. I'd take Hall and Kane, but at this point they would be extra bodies.

 

[JackSlater]

I've had that line together in my lineup for a few weeks now...although not Bergeron with Sid on the 1st line... only because I wanted the 4 best lines that get more or less equal amounts of ATOI... I like your suggestion but that tells me (if I were coaching the 1st 3 lines will get the bulk of the ice time.) If I were going the route you suggest for the 4th line, then for sure I'd want it Duchene Giroux Seguin. I prefer Seguin over Hall or Kane at this point because I think he thinks the game better. but that's just me. I'd take Hall and Kane, but at this point they would be extra bodies.

Duchene Giroux Seguin is the line I was picturing, but there is still a lot of hockey to be played. Duchene and Seguin were at the Spengler Cup together, but I don't remember what lines they played on.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Duchene Giroux Seguin is the line I was picturing, but there is still a lot of hockey to be played. Duchene and Seguin were at the Spengler Cup together, but I don't remember what lines they played on.

I do like that line-up though. I didn't really think Duchene had a realistic chance at making the roster, but under that scenario, and given Duchene's bounce back season, I'm liking your suggestion more and more.

 

[86Habs]

I do like that line-up though. I didn't really think Duchene had a realistic chance at making the roster, but under that scenario, and given Duchene's bounce back season, I'm liking your suggestion more and more.

I'm thinking:

Tavares - Crosby - Bergeron
E. Staal - Stamkos - St. Louis
Sharp - Toews - Nash
Hall - Giroux - Seguin

Any number of guys could work for #13 and #14, but they'd certainly need to add some grit (which may otherwise be lacking with the above group) and be well-rounded enough to play on any of the four lines. We have sufficient speed with the above lineup, so we can afford to bring someone that adds a different dimension as an extra. Preference for natural wingers, or centers who have experience playing wing.

1. Perry (RW)
2. Neal (left-handed RW)
3. Benn (C/LW)
4. Carter (C/RW)
5. Kane (LW)
6. Richards (C/LW)
7. Duchene (C/LW)
8. Eberle (RW)

To be candid I had considered Eberle a lock heading into the season, but his play thus far hasn't been at the same level as it was last year. He needs to be an 80-point guy to make this squad IMO. I'd say he's been passed by his linemate, Hall, and probably Duchene and Kane as well. Richards is heading down my list, as well - just not very impressive this season.

Perry is starting to turn his game around (unlike Getzlaf, he hasn't struck gold yet, so he's still motivated), and while his skating is and will always be a concern, I like the fact that he's a natural winger, goes hard to the net, and is not afraid to get his hands dirty in the corners.

Neal could serve as a PP specialist or play the odd ES shift with Crosby; he brings a fairly hard-nosed game as well, but lacks the big-game experience of a Perry and while personally I'm not one who likes "specialists" on Olympic teams, its tough to not take someone with that skillset and goal production.

Benn may be heading down my list, and I'm starting to like Evander Kane more and more. I like his desire, speed, and goal-scorer's mentality. Benn gives you a more well-rounded offensive play and PK ability, but he hasn't found consistency yet this season.

I've always been intrigued by Carter. Great physical package, and is burying quite a few for LA. He's the kind of guy who seems to excel when he's allowed to go about his business on the second line, which is concerning from the point of view of the pressure he'll be under the Olympics, but also makes me think he'd do well in a less-pronounced role where he's not carrying the load offensively.

Duchene - Would like to see him play a bit more on the wing, as I don't think he'd find a home at center for us. Still, great skillset, very creative offensively, and has pretty much carried the Avs on his back this season. Like Kane, on his way up the list.

 

[86Habs]

Neal will definitely get considered but he doesn't really play with Crosby unless it's the PP, so I'm not sure how much chemistry will play into it (Kunitz - Malkin - Neal line was great last year, Kunitz's game seems to gel well with everyone). If they do take Neal will they be able to fit him onto the PP?

I could see them plausibly take Neal as a PP specialist, depending on the make up of the rest of the team. If so, they could focus one PP unit on Crosby-Neal-Letang, and the other on Stamkos-MSL. Say:

Tavares - Crosby - Neal
Weber - Letang

Stamkos - Giroux - MSL
Doughty/Pietrangelo - Keith

 

[JackSlater]

I do like that line-up though. I didn't really think Duchene had a realistic chance at making the roster, but under that scenario, and given Duchene's bounce back season, I'm liking your suggestion more and more.

Yeah, Duchene has been great so far this year. Of course it's only barely past 20 games, but it's still noteworthy. It's also helpful that he's probably the fastest skater Canada has, and training with Crosby in the summer can't hurt either. I think he's played LW for Colorado a bit last year, and for Canada at a few WCs.

Any number of guys could work for #13 and #14, but they'd certainly need to add some grit (which may otherwise be lacking with the above group) and be well-rounded enough to play on any of the four lines. We have sufficient speed with the above lineup, so we can afford to bring someone that adds a different dimension as an extra. Preference for natural wingers, or centers who have experience playing wing.

1. Perry (RW)
2. Neal (left-handed RW)
3. Benn (C/LW)
4. Carter (C/RW)
5. Kane (LW)
6. Richards (C/LW)
7. Duchene (C/LW)
8. Eberle (RW)

I would probably pick Richards if the Olympics started today. He could be used mainly on the PK, has plenty of experience from the Olympics and playoffs, good skater and he tends to raise his game for big moments. Out of the guys you listed, the only one I have a hard time seeing on Canada is Carter. Once his goal scoring cools off his name will disappear.

 

[86Habs]

Yeah, Duchene has been great so far this year. Of course it's only barely past 20 games, but it's still noteworthy. It's also helpful that he's probably the fastest skater Canada has, and training with Crosby in the summer can't hurt either. I think he's played LW for Colorado a bit last year, and for Canada at a few WCs.



I would probably pick Richards if the Olympics started today. He could be used mainly on the PK, has plenty of experience from the Olympics and playoffs, good skater and he tends to raise his game for big moments. Out of the guys you listed, the only one I have a hard time seeing on Canada is Carter. Once his goal scoring cools off his name will disappear.

Well, you know what you're gonna get with Richards and he offers a low-risk option that can kill penalties and play in defensive situations. If the OGs started today, yeah, I'd probably have him there (barely). We are a bit light on the PKers (Bergeron, Toews, Sharp, Nash, I guess Giroux/Staal). However, in a year from now, a guy like Benn may give us just as much value in a defensive and energy-type role, plus offer substantially more offensive upside. All of the guys on the list, save maybe Neal, have significantly more upside potential than Richards and still have time to develop their games between now and December. I'm projecting a bit here, but think Richards will get passed by a few of the guys on that list.

I wouldn't mention Carter if not for the fact that he was the guy slated to fill in for Getzlaf in 2010 if Getzlaf's ankle wasn't good to go for Vancouver. So obviously he's already on Hockey Canada's radar, and he's done nothing but bring his game back to his 2009-2011 level this season. Perhaps a longshot, but who knows?

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

Alright, I'll have a go.

Staal - Crosby - Tavares
MSL - Giroux - Stamkos
Hall - Getzlaf - Perry
Bergeron - Toews - Nash
Kane/Benn/Eberle

Weber - Doughty
Keith - Seabrook
Letang - Pietrangelo
Hamhuis

Price
Luongo
Ward

 

[xxxx]

The offense is so stacked, it's crazy that two of the very best shooters in the league right now (J.Carter and J. Neal) are not a lock for Canada. They would play on first two lines at worst in every other hockey country.

IMO, the locks are: Bergeron, E. Staal, Toews, Tavares, Nash, Crosby, Stamkos and St. Louis.

Giroux is almost on roster, but how you can guarantee him a spot if someone like James Neal is not a lock. And I don't now what else Neal should do to be considered as a lock for Sochi. I think Getzlaf and Perry are almost in, but it depends on how do you see the final picture of the team.


Everybody knows the offense is stacked, but the deffense is crammed as well. These are 11 defensman I suppose are the most considered right now: Bouwmeester, Boyle, Doughty, Hamhuis, Keith, Letang, Pietrangelo, Seabrook, M. Staal, Subban and Weber.

The locks are Weber, Keith, Letang and Doughty I guess. Pietrangelo is almost in, so 2 or 3 more players, and the defense is complete. And you will probably pick two or three of these: Bouwmeester, Seabrook, Subban, M.Staal, Boyle, Hamhuis. Subban looks really interesting and I suppose, he could be even better next season. I can't wait to see him in a play-off series. The Keith-Seabrook duo is one of the best defensive pairing in the league, and it's a big advantage when you start a tournament like this, having elite pair in Seabrook and Keith. Bouwmeester has played some good hockey this season, he has some experience in international competitions, and is a great skater considering his size. Plus, he is a left-hander.

Marc Staal and Dan Hamhuis are very good defensively and I think there's a big chance one of them will make the team. Dan Boyle is there because of Letang's past injury. He is the one I would probably put on roster if Letang was injured again.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Well, you know what you're gonna get with Richards and he offers a low-risk option that can kill penalties and play in defensive situations. If the OGs started today, yeah, I'd probably have him there (barely). We are a bit light on the PKers (Bergeron, Toews, Sharp, Nash, I guess Giroux/Staal). However, in a year from now, a guy like Benn may give us just as much value in a defensive and energy-type role, plus offer substantially more offensive upside. All of the guys on the list, save maybe Neal, have significantly more upside potential than Richards and still have time to develop their games between now and December. I'm projecting a bit here, but think Richards will get passed by a few of the guys on that list.

I wouldn't mention Carter if not for the fact that he was the guy slated to fill in for Getzlaf in 2010 if Getzlaf's ankle wasn't good to go for Vancouver. So obviously he's already on Hockey Canada's radar, and he's done nothing but bring his game back to his 2009-2011 level this season. Perhaps a longshot, but who knows?

I think it's time that P.K. Subban be thrown into the mix, and since you as a habs fan seem reluctant to call it for fear of being called out as making a homer pick, and since I am not a habs fan then I can do it. P.K. gets consideration for the summer camp and is right up there to get the call in December provided his play continues to trend upwards. I've been impressed with his play this year for the first time since his call up in the Play offs a few seasons back.

 

[Cory Trevor]

I think it's time that P.K. Subban be thrown into the mix, and since you as a habs fan seem reluctant to call it for fear of being called out as making a homer pick, and since I am not a habs fan then I can do it. P.K. gets consideration for the summer camp and is right up there to get the call in December provided his play continues to trend upwards. I've been impressed with his play this year for the first time since his call up in the Play offs a few seasons back.

As a Bruins fan, I would agree with this. Subban's playing excellent and it's beyond homer pick at this point. He will get an invite barring any major drops in his play. He will at least be considered. Would make for an interesting pick as he's had success with Team Canada before. I remember him doing that interview with Johnny T before too. I think they are chums. Might work in his favor

 

[1Gold Standard]

As a Bruins fan, I would agree with this. Subban's playing excellent and it's beyond homer pick at this point. He will get an invite barring any major drops in his play. He will at least be considered. Would make for an interesting pick but he's had success with Team Canada before. I remember him doing that interview with Johnny T before too. I think they are chums. Might work in his favor

Johnny T, Stamkos and P.K. all grew up together more or less in the GTHL, they are all chums, although I do think JT and PK are closer. At this point I'm trying to figure out who drops out of the TOP 8 to make room for Subban..and it's a hard decision to make.

 

[JackSlater]

I think it's time that P.K. Subban be thrown into the mix, and since you as a habs fan seem reluctant to call it for fear of being called out as making a homer pick, and since I am not a habs fan then I can do it. P.K. gets consideration for the summer camp and is right up there to get the call in December provided his play continues to trend upwards. I've been impressed with his play this year for the first time since his call up in the Play offs a few seasons back.

Subban has undoubtedly been quite good this year. It's too bad he had that last minute injury before the last WC. At first I thought he was mainly being touted by Montreal homers, but I was wrong.

In any event, he looks like a good bet to go to the summer camp. He isn't helped by being a right handed shot and Canada has a plethora of puck moving defencemen, but he has to have a chance at this point. I like that his defensive game is at a level where I wouldn't be nervous to have him on the ice with someone like Letang, though I probably wouldn't use him to kill penalties. I really like that he played four years of junior in Belleville on the international size ice.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Subban has undoubtedly been quite good this year. It's too bad he had that last minute injury before the last WC. At first I thought he was mainly being touted by Montreal homers, but I was wrong.

In any event, he looks like a good bet to go to the summer camp. He isn't helped by being a right handed shot and Canada has a plethora of puck moving defencemen, but he has to have a chance at this point. I like that his defensive game is at a level where I wouldn't be nervous to have him on the ice with someone like Letang, though I probably wouldn't use him to kill penalties. I really like that he played four years of junior in Belleville on the international size ice.

I have # 7 as Marc Staal and # 8 Seabrook. At this point I really don't want to remove any of those to make room for P.K. but P.K.'s advantage is he can play the Left Side on the PP. Unless he really blows up and plays insane, then I can't see him knocking out any of my other TOP 6. I like how he's playing though...loving it, strictly from a team canada point of view...

 

[86Habs]

I think it's time that P.K. Subban be thrown into the mix, and since you as a habs fan seem reluctant to call it for fear of being called out as making a homer pick, and since I am not a habs fan then I can do it. P.K. gets consideration for the summer camp and is right up there to get the call in December provided his play continues to trend upwards. I've been impressed with his play this year for the first time since his call up in the Play offs a few seasons back.

Yeah, he should be thrown into the mix, absolutely. I voiced my initial hesitation about him about a month and a half ago during his hold-out and shortly after, when he got off to a slow start. I've always had him in my top-12 or so, which means I'm projecting him to get an invitation to summer camp. If he keeps up this level of play, which is certainly possible (if not probable), I'd have him in my top 8, perhaps even in my top 7.

1. Weber
2. Keith
3. Doughty
4. Pietrangelo
5. Letang

I've been consistent with having Seabrook, Staal, and Hamhuis as my #6 to #8. Obviously all three are there strictly for their defensive play, and Staal and Hamhuis also shoot left-handed, where we're pretty thin. Seabrook and Keith are a dominant pairing in Chicago, and Seabrook merits being on the Olympic team on his accord. However, Keith paired-up with Doughty for the most part in 2010, so its not like Team Canada took huge advantage of the Keith-Seabrook chemistry anyway.

Overall, I'm not sure who I'd replace Subban for. Probably Hamhuis, but I really like his rock-solid defensive game and great speed. Not sure at this point. Very happy to see Subban doing well though!

 

[86Habs]

I have # 7 as Marc Staal and # 8 Seabrook. At this point I really don't want to remove any of those to make room for P.K. but P.K.'s advantage is he can play the Left Side on the PP. Unless he really blows up and plays insane, then I can't see him knocking out any of my other TOP 6. I like how he's playing though...loving it, strictly from a team canada point of view...

Who are your top 6? Weber, Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang...?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but...

Of the Top 30 scorers in the NHL, 21 are Canadian - 70%.
Of the Top 40 scorers in the NHL, 2 are American - 5%.

I think the U.S. should be disqualified from the Olympic competition based on this fact.

I think, based on this stat and the fact that we won the Gold in 2010, Canada should automatically be given a bye to the Gold medal game
- just like they do with the chess champion.



The Sicilian Najdorf RULES just like Team Canada!!!

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Oh good... Brad May is on Hockey Central. Time to change to Til Debt Do Us Part.



**

I want Canada to send 2 teams to the Olympics... One that plays the round robin games and one that has a bye to the Gold Medal game.
That 2nd Canadian team would allow the IIHF tell Team USA to stay home until they find someone who can score.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

"The Dominican Republic made itself at home by beating the United States 3-1 Thursday night to earn a berth in the final round of the World Baseball Classic."

Thank God!



The Rangers, a team that cannot score and only won last year by blocking shots, are no longer in a playoff position.

Thank God!

The Rangers remind me of a certain potential Olympic hockey team (who shall remain nameless) that will try and win from the net out and MAY knock out far more deserving teams from the Olympics. Wouldn't that be a shame.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but...

Of the Top 30 scorers in the NHL, 21 are Canadian - 70%.
Of the Top 40 scorers in the NHL, 2 are American - 5%.

I think the U.S. should be disqualified from the Olympic competition based on this fact.

I think, based on this stat and the fact that we won the Gold in 2010, Canada should automatically be given a bye to the Gold medal game.
- just like they do with the chess champion.

Oh good... Brad May is on Hockey Central. Time to change to Til Debt Do Us Part.

"The Dominican Republic made itself at home by beating the United States 3-1 Thursday night to earn a berth in the final round of the World Baseball Classic."

Thank God!

What the hell are you going on about?

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

What the hell are you going on about?

LMAO...



I don't know. I must be drunk.

 

[Cory Trevor]

Who are your top 6? Weber, Keith, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang...?

Gotta be thinking Seabrook

 

[86Habs]

Gotta be thinking Seabrook

He said above Seabrook was his #8. Hence my confusion.

 

[1Gold Standard]

He said above Seabrook was his #8. Hence my confusion.

I rank my TOP 12 who's best from #1 to # 12 without taking into account team, who shoots left/right or players of similar skill set etc. And then from that try and balance TOP 8 or more specifically TOP 6/7 on any given team. Generally my Top 4 d-men are my top 2 pairings or 4 best d-man irregardless of anything else, but bottom 4 I take into consideration Left v Right or type of player... For example Hamius I have ranked #10, but for Sochi I have him in the 3rd pairing with Drew Doughty. # 1 pairing would be AP w/Weber (two right-handed shooters, but I always put my best two d-men together to see what comes out and adjust afterwards...# 2 Kieth w/Letang. so that makes M Staal # 7 and Seabrook # 8. The aforementioned Subban has moved up to # 9. Unlikely he replaces Doughty or Letang (player of similar skill set) who are more accomplished even though I have Subban ranked higher than Hamius, but Hamius gets the spot over Subban. And I prefer Marc Staal over Subban for the purposes of the Sochi team..My A and B teams switch on a daily basis.

And then to make it even more confusing, once I get my team I assign a number value on each player 4-7 based on current stats and from that I assess the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition teams and the chances of winning any particular tournament. And this speaks to our friend Cory Trevor who a while back commented that in all likelihood Team Canada regresses. But Vancouver I had Canada rated # 2 at 139 pts while the Russians were at # 1 by the slightest of margins 141, Sweden # 3 and the USA # 4. This time a year out from Sochi, I have Canada ranked # 1 improved to a 155 Sweden at # 2 improved to a 145 closely followed by the USA improved from Vancouver at 143 and I have the Russians falling back to # 4 and the Finns at number 5. All those are based on me picking the opposition teams, and for the Russians it is especially difficult to judge KHL stats in relation to NHL stats.
We'll see what the real teams look like when they are picked.

And if those first 2 d pairings didn't work out, then I'd consider Hamhuis w/ Weber and Kieth w/ AP. Staal w/Doughty and making Letang the # 7.

 

[86Habs]

I rank my TOP 12 who's best from #1 to # 12 without taking into account team, who shoots left/right or players of similar skill set etc. And then from that try and balance TOP 8 or more specifically TOP 6/7 on any given team. Generally my Top 4 d-men are my top 2 pairings or 4 best d-man irregardless of anything else, but bottom 4 I take into consideration Left v Right or type of player... For example Hamius I have ranked #10, but for Sochi I have him in the 3rd pairing with Drew Doughty. # 1 pairing would be AP w/Weber (two right-handed shooters, but I always put my best two d-men together to see what comes out and adjust afterwards...# 2 Kieth w/Letang. so that makes M Staal # 7 and Seabrook # 8. The aforementioned Subban has moved up to # 9. Unlikely he replaces Doughty or Letang (player of similar skill set) who are more accomplished even though I have Subban ranked higher than Hamius, but Hamius gets the spot over Subban. And I prefer Marc Staal over Subban for the purposes of the Sochi team..My A and B teams switch on a daily basis.

And then to make it even more confusing, once I get my team I assign a number value on each player 4-7 based on current stats and from that I assess the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposition teams and the chances of winning any particular tournament. And this speaks to our friend Cory Trevor who a while back commented that in all likelihood Team Canada regresses. But Vancouver I had Canada rated # 2 at 139 pts while the Russians were at # 1 by the slightest of margins 141, Sweden # 3 and the USA # 4. This time a year out from Sochi, I have Canada ranked # 1 improved to a 155 Sweden at # 2 improved to a 145 closely followed by the USA improved from Vancouver at 143 and I have the Russians falling back to # 4 and the Finns at number 5. All those are based on me picking the opposition teams, and for the Russians it is especially difficult to judge KHL stats in relation to NHL stats.
We'll see what the real teams look like when they are picked.

And if those first 2 d pairings didn't work out, then I'd consider Hamhuis w/ Weber and Kieth w/ AP. Staal w/Doughty and making Letang the # 7.

That all makes sense and I tend to agree with your ranking scheme not necessarily determining which 8 D-men make the squad, considering roles/responsibilities, redudancies in skillsets, experience, handedness, etc. I believe Subban is among the top 8 defencemen in Canada right now, but it seems like he needs an injury or significant slippage in play from one of Letang or Doughty (or possible Pietrangelo) to make Team Canada. Which in my view is unlikely. And that's alright. Back in 2010 Doughty was seen as a longshot to make the team, then next thing you know he's playing huge minutes on our #1 pairing. So anything could happen, and I have full confidence in Yzerman doing his due diligence and selecting the best players for the job.

I'd be curious to see the team rankings you alluded to above.

And, finally, Getzlaf is making a huge push for a spot on this roster, like I suspected he would. Currently tied for 6th in NHL scoring, well-above a PPG pace, and leading the Ducks to a (surprising) #2 position in the West. Obviously much will depend on the playoffs, and whether he can lead Anaheim on a nice run, but the downside is that we won't get to see him play again on the international ice until Sochi. If the Olympics started today I don't see how we could leave him off.

He'd probably drag Perry onto the team as well, although Perry is IMO capable of scoring much more than he is, and I'd like him to warm up to a 40-goal pace before I would want to see him on the team. His elbow this week was pretty ugly and the 4-game suspension much deserved, and unfortunately not atypical of him. With Perry you can certainly get the good and the bad. I've always thought of Perry having the better shot at making Team Canada than Getzlaf given he's a natural RWer, where we're comparatively pretty thin, a very good goal scorer, and isn't afraid to work the corners and the area in front of the net; whereas Getzlaf was caught up in a logjam at the center position.