2014-15 Lake Erie Monsters (AHL) & Fort Wayne Komets (ECHL) l Part 2

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StayAtHomeAv

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Base on that he is not even considered by Roy to be a call up when somebody is injured. As I said I don't call him a bust yet and I'm far from it but honestly I expect more from him at this stage of his career. he still can flourish, but it's hard to compare him to Foote right now as he was compared before and after draft. As someone said we may missed better D-man (Oleksiak taken 3 spots later, who already cracks Dallas line-up). I really hope Siemens develops into Seabrook - kind of player as other poster said. It would be something great, Seabrook is great d-man and he also putting some points. I'm also very happy if he plays Hjalmarsson, really wish that happen. It's great draft choice if something like that happen. We shall see, jury is still out of him i just wanted him to be better at the moment and have a shot on NHL over such a great d-man as "General" Guenin and Nick "doesn't do anything right" Holden.

How do you know who Roy is "even considering"?

As for Oleksiak, just because he has cracked the roster doesn't make him better. He is barely seeing any ice time, and his numbers are nothing to look at. Out of all the Dmen who have played 10 or more games this year, only 3 have less ice time per game. There is only one who has played more than 20 games. What's better for development, playing lots of minutes in the AHL or being one of the least used Dmen in the league?
 

ABasin

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I believe concern about Siemens is justified. I get the "he needs PT in the AHL", and that some guys develop slower than others (ala Boychuk), and that he's still only 21, etc. However, the Avs have been in some dire straights defensively both this season and last, and Siemens hasn't had a sniff. All the while, the Avs are signing/promoting other AHL scrubs. This is reasonable cause for concern, IMO.

To me, the lack of scoring isn't an issue. Not only because he's probably projected to be more of a defensive defenseman as a pro, but also because he's playing on a team with not a single (other) potential future Top 6/Top 4 NHL hockey player on that entire Lake Erie roster. Heck, it's arguable whether that roster holds a single potential future Top 9/Top 4 NHL player, aside from Siemens. That roster simply reeks of depth-NHL/career-AHL players. With that kind of roster-wide lack of talent, I don't think Siemens is going to rack up a bunch of points.
 

tigervixxxen

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Let's see what happens when the year is over, if Siemens has been given a look or not. His contract isn't even up, they don't have to rush any sort of decision. He was paired with Elliott last night and guess what, got an assist. People want to rush to conclusion way too fast, either someone is a bust or a superstar. He's 21, maybe he's not ready for the NHL yet. Better than Guenin doesn't make him any more ready for the NHL. What AHL scrub was signed/promoted over him? You mean when Guenin was signed Siemens was 20 years old and hadn't played a game of pro yet? It's such a Dater line of thinking "well he wasn't called up this time, therefore a bust".
 

Gigantor The Goalie

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I don't know why everyone is getting so worried about Siemens. Does he really need to go PPG in the AHL in order to be considered not a bust? Isn't it obvious that Roy doesn't want to yo-yo Siemens up and down? I wouldn't worry about Siemens until he hits 23yo and he's still not in the line-up. Absolutely no reason to worry his development just yet.
 

niwotsblessing

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I believe concern about Siemens is justified. I get the "he needs PT in the AHL", and that some guys develop slower than others (ala Boychuk), and that he's still only 21, etc. However, the Avs have been in some dire straights defensively both this season and last, and Siemens hasn't had a sniff. All the while, the Avs are signing/promoting other AHL scrubs. This is reasonable cause for concern, IMO.

To me, the lack of scoring isn't an issue. Not only because he's probably projected to be more of a defensive defenseman as a pro, but also because he's playing on a team with not a single (other) potential future Top 6/Top 4 NHL hockey player on that entire Lake Erie roster. Heck, it's arguable whether that roster holds a single potential future Top 9/Top 4 NHL player, aside from Siemens. That roster simply reeks of depth-NHL/career-AHL players. With that kind of roster-wide lack of talent, I don't think Siemens is going to rack up a bunch of points.

Counterpoint: Who on the Avs staff, or this board, thought Calvin Pickard would come in and play some amazing hockey in the NHL? Maybe the "lack of sniff" is Roy and the brain trust being stubborn/wrong. Until Siemens gets solid NHL playing time I'd argue that nobody really knows what he is capable of doing on a team of skilled players.
 

ABasin

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Counterpoint: Who on the Avs staff, or this board, thought Calvin Pickard would come in and play some amazing hockey in the NHL? Maybe the "lack of sniff" is Roy and the brain trust being stubborn/wrong.

An entirely reasonable question, sir. I obviously have no idea whether this is an issue, but since there have been some questionable calls on AHL players over the past year+ (Berra, Holden, Pickard, etc), it's a good question.
 

tigervixxxen

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Its a bit of wishful thinking to think that an AHL player who is inconsistent is all of a sudden going to not only find consistency but success at the NHL level. Pickard is a strange case, I can't discount at all what he did for the Avs but I'd like to see him be a bit more dominant in the AHL, even now.

Anywho, here are the highlights from yesterday

 

ABasin

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Let's see what happens when the year is over, if Siemens has been given a look or not. His contract isn't even up, they don't have to rush any sort of decision. He was paired with Elliott last night and guess what, got an assist. People want to rush to conclusion way too fast, either someone is a bust or a superstar. He's 21, maybe he's not ready for the NHL yet. Better than Guenin doesn't make him any more ready for the NHL. What AHL scrub was signed/promoted over him? You mean when Guenin was signed Siemens was 20 years old and hadn't played a game of pro yet? It's such a Dater line of thinking "well he wasn't called up this time, therefore a bust".

I like you TV, so I'm going to overlook that you just compared me to Dater. Just this once though. ;)

Yes, he's 21. But so are Hamilton, Brodin, Oleksiak, Murphy, Larsson, Beaulieu (all drafted in the first round, same draft year), and they're all NHL regulars now. Murphy (the other one), Klefblom, Percy and Morrow (all also drafted in the first round, same draft year) have all at least had a taste of the NHL, even if they're not yet regulars. And they're all that same age also.

There were 11 defensemen drafted in 2011 in the first round, 7 are NHL regulars, 3 others have at least played some games in the NHL. Siemens is the only one who has not, and his NHL parent team has had arguably the worst defense of any of those teams. And yes - they're all 21/22 years old.

One doesn't need to be Dater-dumb to be concerned by this.
 

tigervixxxen

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haha, I wasn't replying to one person in particular, just saying it is a Dater type logic leap.

It doesn't matter what other guys have done or what their teams are doing, that doesn't write the story for our player in particular. He's obviously not on the fast track and its fair to wonder if he will see NHL time but it still doesn't draw the conclusion on his career. As I've been saying its the rush to label prospects "good" or "bad", there is no in between.
 

Freudian

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I like you TV, so I'm going to overlook that you just compared me to Dater. Just this once though. ;)

Yes, he's 21. But so are Hamilton, Brodin, Oleksiak, Murphy, Larsson, Beaulieu (all drafted in the first round, same draft year), and they're all NHL regulars now. Murphy (the other one), Klefblom, Percy and Morrow (all also drafted in the first round, same draft year) have all at least had a taste of the NHL, even if they're not yet regulars. And they're all that same age also.

There were 11 defensemen drafted in 2011 in the first round, 7 are NHL regulars, 3 others have at least played some games in the NHL. Siemens is the only one who has not, and his NHL parent team has had arguably the worst defense of any of those teams. And yes - they're all 21/22 years old.

One doesn't need to be Dater-dumb to be concerned by this.

Of the players you listed only Brodin and Hamilton are NHL regulars and it's obvious why. They have the ability to think and the skill to play the game at a NHL pace and have since they came into the league. The others are AHL/NHL players, some more ready than others.

I think the plan was for him to spend the year in AHL and they're following the plan. They did the yo-yo thing with Elliott and it didn't benefit his development.

Siemens isn't a guy that will step into the NHL at 20 and look comfortable. Most comments about him before he turned pro was that he was probably going to have to spend at least a couple of years in the AHL and now when it turns out he actually will spend a couple of years in the AHL it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
 

Gabe the Babe

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I like you TV, so I'm going to overlook that you just compared me to Dater. Just this once though. ;)

Yes, he's 21. But so are Hamilton, Brodin, Oleksiak, Murphy, Larsson, Beaulieu (all drafted in the first round, same draft year), and they're all NHL regulars now. Murphy (the other one), Klefblom, Percy and Morrow (all also drafted in the first round, same draft year) have all at least had a taste of the NHL, even if they're not yet regulars. And they're all that same age also.

There were 11 defensemen drafted in 2011 in the first round, 7 are NHL regulars, 3 others have at least played some games in the NHL. Siemens is the only one who has not, and his NHL parent team has had arguably the worst defense of any of those teams. And yes - they're all 21/22 years old.

One doesn't need to be Dater-dumb to be concerned by this.

I wouldn't move Siemens for about 6 or 7 of those guys that are in the NHL already. Hamilton and Brodin are studs but also guys we didn't have a chance to draft and I'm sure we would have. Otherwise no
 

JoemAvs

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Of the players you listed only Brodin and Hamilton are NHL regulars and it's obvious why. They have the ability to think and the skill to play the game at a NHL pace and have since they came into the league. The others are AHL/NHL players, some more ready than others.

I think the plan was for him to spend the year in AHL and they're following the plan. They did the yo-yo thing with Elliott and it didn't benefit his development.

Siemens isn't a guy that will step into the NHL at 20 and look comfortable. Most comments about him before he turned pro was that he was probably going to have to spend at least a couple of years in the AHL and now when it turns out he actually will spend a couple of years in the AHL it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

I absolutely agree.
But I would have hoped that he would have a bigger role down there by now.
His injuries last season certainly did not help.

But wasn't he a healthy scratch a couple of days/games ago?

At that point I am more concerned with Chynoweth screwing up his development than anything else.

After the encouraging things I read about him after and at the camp, I am not liking his usage from the bits and pieces I gather about the Monsters.

The people that watch Monsters games are more than welcome to tell me that I am wrong.

I just was under the impression that you want your top prospects on the top pairing / top line / or atleast playing meaningful minutes even if that means a couple of more losses here and there.
 

tigervixxxen

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It was one game and he's played since. Who knows why he was held out, it's not like they give out any info. He did block a shot the previous game and was visibly laboring after. The best guess is still a healthy scratch but we'll never know. What if he hasn't been better than Stollery? Should he just be handed the top pair position because he's a high draft pick? That's definitely not how they run the team. Maybe they should give younger guys more of a shot, sometimes I agree.
 

JoemAvs

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It was one game and he's played since. Who knows why he was held out, it's not like they give out any info. He did block a shot the previous game and was visibly laboring after. The best guess is still a healthy scratch but we'll never know. What if he hasn't been better than Stollery? Should he just be handed the top pair position because he's a high draft pick? That's definitely not how they run the team. Maybe they should give younger guys more of a shot, sometimes I agree.

Thanks for the headsup.
You are probably one of the "experts" on the Monsters on here so I certainly won't try to convince you of anything. Aside from reading in here, stats watching and the occasional highlight reel, I really don't know much about the Monsters.

From the little I know, I am simply not all that happy with Chynoweth.

I would absolutely play Siemens over Stollery. The Monsters are 13th in their conference anyways. Stollery has no future with the Avs. Siemens hopefully does.
So give him the tough minutes and let him develop.

But I am also ragging on Roy for not leaving Mac at center and letting him play through his struggles until he figures it out.
Obviously you don't want to completely ruin the confidence of those kids but I always believed that aside from that, there is no reason to not play the young guys hard minutes once winning a cup (or making the playoffs) is out of the picture.

Let them step up and grow into their roles (slowly) and give them every chance in the world until you certainly know that they are in over their heads. I am not saying that you should throw them unsheltered into the fire but give them more and more responsibilities and see how they respond.

Just give Siemens- X (Elliott ?) increasingly hard minutes and see if they can handle it.
If they look lost after 10-15 games you can always switch back or decrease their workload.
I would do the same with Hishon and force him into showing us if he has an NHL future or not by giving him major minutes.

But Chynoweth (and Roy to some extent) seem to have a different take on player development than I do and opt for the option of team success being more helpful to individual development than focussing on the improvement of certain individuals.
 
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tigervixxxen

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The team needs to have some success at some point too. It's not just a dumping ground for problems or somewhere for kids to roam free. The conference is tight, they have more of a chance than the Avs to make the playoffs and it would mean a lot to them to get that. Now when Dean wouldn't play the kids other than Bourke on PTO last year when they were beyond out of it was asinine, I'm not going to defend him but I also don't think their problems are entirely just him either. They have to satisfy a lot more people than just the Avs.

Hishon generally plays top 6. Lines are even more fluid than the Avs if you can believe it. I think Siemens' role is fine too, yeah I can see the argument to see what he can do with more minutes but it's not like his contract expires anytime soon either.
 

tigervixxxen

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Just to wrap up the weekend, Monsters crapped the bed yesterday and lost 5-2. Cheek and Heard added some garbage time goals. Picks wasn't at his finest in this one but it wasn't all him. Monsters as always can generate chances but can't score. Letting in a goal early is usually a mountain they can't climb. This team can be quite good with a lead and with some semblance of threat to score. Gervais is becoming a huge problem. He might be a mentor to the young guys but he has been a big factor in blowing games, he's a -10 and the worst of the D. It sucks he is the captain and therefore will never be scratched, especially with the way Dean likes to use the doghouse to send a message. Well send one and put your captain in there. Its not worth it to provide highlights to this one. Henley was missing for the last 5 games and its been noticeable. He's finally back in Cleveland and word is it was due to a family matter, thank god he will be back in the lineup.
 

hf031

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Couple recent-ish articles I came across pertaining to the AHL's Manifest Destiny...

http://www.telegram.com/article/20141218/NEWS/312189462/0

http://poststar.com/blogs/flames/ah...cle_f09b0b56-87c7-11e4-9d15-3bcf13b234d5.html

Looks like it is shaping up to be at least San Jose, Los Angeles, Calgary, Edmonton, and perhaps Anaheim, and that we might know a lot more by the end of the month. The Worcester article even talked about the Baby Sharks playing in San Jose for next season. I still don't see Colorado getting involved just yet.
 

tigervixxxen

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Thanks, I'll check those out. I don't think Colorado will be in the first wave. I think they will wait and see how it goes. Their situation in Cleveland is pretty good. Although I like them playing the western teams much more. I thought the goon division was bad but the current division is worse. Just rough, tough, boring hockey.
 

henchman21

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We will know a lot more on January 21st. It sounds like a Pacific Division is coming first, followed by Mountain Division a year or two later.
 

not a troll

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Couple recent-ish articles I came across pertaining to the AHL's Manifest Destiny...

http://www.telegram.com/article/20141218/NEWS/312189462/0

http://poststar.com/blogs/flames/ah...cle_f09b0b56-87c7-11e4-9d15-3bcf13b234d5.html

Looks like it is shaping up to be at least San Jose, Los Angeles, Calgary, Edmonton, and perhaps Anaheim, and that we might know a lot more by the end of the month. The Worcester article even talked about the Baby Sharks playing in San Jose for next season. I still don't see Colorado getting involved just yet.

I was really hoping San Diego would be a destination so I can jump on with an AHL team.
 

Freudian

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Ugly first period for them today. Pickard allows two soft goals is pulled and then Aittikallio allows a terrible goal right away. Only bright spot is the backhand assist from Hishon to Everberg for the LEM lone goal.

everb.gif
 

hf031

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Picks's numbers are awful since he was sent down most recently. Related to the demotion or, is it a product of playing on the team that has given up the most goals in the AHL? If I'm in his shoes, I'm certainly frustrated that I was performing as one of the top goaltenders in the NHL and yet still I get sent down (twice). But for some reason it's hard to imagine him as a pouter - seems like a good attitude guy from all of my impressions.
 
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