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OT: 2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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FLYguy3911

FLYguy3911

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Oct 19, 2006
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I said it earlier, Ruben has to go or he will run this franchise into the ground. He's on the hot seat. He has to win to save his job. There's no chance he does a true rebuild. This organization is in a bad spot- Aging veterans past their primes combined with little major league ready talent. It's going to be another offseason of FA pluggers and desperation trades. You can't win that way. The sooner they make the change, the sooner this team will contend again.
 
Ilya Bryzastor

Ilya Bryzastor

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Justified said:
Amaro is the worst GM in the history of GM's. Mad Mike was more competent than him



Who would the 3rd pitcher be after Carlton and Roberts? Unless Im missing someone obvious Schilling is the 3rd best pitcher behind those two imo. He had two great Cy Young Caliber seasons in 97 and 98 where he struck out over 300 batters both years and had a few other really good seasons.
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Alexander , Carlton , Roberts , Bunning , Schilling in that order.
 
jml87

jml87

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Jun 27, 2011
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charlie-manuel-cbp-e1376690476473.jpg


Ugggghhhh :cry:
 
FlyersFan61290

FlyersFan61290

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jml87 said:
Ugggghhhh :cry:
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That's pretty sad. I know I was saying he needed to go but the end of the season would of been better. Amaro needs to go too or this accomplishes next to nothing IMO. Salisbury said that Charlie wasn't happy with the talent level he had to work with and honestly who could blame him. Now I don't think that excuses him but RAJ is primarily to blame for the Phils sudden and steep drop off.
 
Sombastate

Sombastate

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swflyers93

swflyers93

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Nov 19, 2007
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Glad I am primarily a Flyers fan. I admit to having a bunch of Phillies shirts but I am glad we got to witness the Charlie Era. 5 Division titles and a World Series. All I need now is a Cup win and I can't ask for anymore in my life.
 
jml87

jml87

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Phillies now have worst run differential in the NL: -105. Only Houston at -176 is worse. Phillies' payroll: ~$160M. Astros' payroll: ~$13M.

Seriously, how does Amaro still have a job?
 
phlocky

phlocky

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Jan 2, 2007
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jml87 said:
Yeah sure, but you see a team like the Braves who almost always have prime pitching and you think what are they do differently. And I don't know that much about other organizations but I still think the Phillies are really bad at this. Looking through our system, I can't see one pitcher that doesn't have control issues. In fact, just look at the entire pitching staff of the lehigh ironpigs over the past year. You can go down to Reading, too.

Biddle, Martin, Friend, DeFratus, Diekman, Aumont, Ramirez, Colvin, etc., these are all goes with great stuff but bad to decent command. Out of all those young guys in that bullpen, none of them can consistently throw strikes. The bullpen averages 4.22 walks per nine innings, worst in the majors. This seems like a big issue for me, that no matter who you bring up, they will walk guys. Someone needs to figure out what's going on.
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The problem is that we have NEVER had a good pitching nor hitting coach. I'm not saying that the guys we've had couldn't do it themselves (obviously they COULD) but there is a difference between being able to do it and being able to TEACH it. Most great players actually make poor coaches because they were able to have great athletic ability overcome poor technique.

Regarding our pitches that WE develop through minors, just compare their deliveries to those of some of the best and most consistent in the league over the last 20 year. Hallowday and Greg Maddox are probably 2 of the best and most consistent pitchers of the past 20 years. They have the same wind-up every pitch. There isn't a lot of twisting of the upper body. They ALWAYS finish the pitch coming straight to the plate and are in excellent fielding position after the pitch (Maddox won something like 10 straight gold gloves too IIRC).

I watch a lot of the pitchers we "develop" and I see poor poor technique. The fall of the mound towards first or third. They "swim" with their glove causing them to twist their upper body, then the lower body follows and the finish the pitch facing either first or third as opposed to square to the plate. You'll see them drop the pitching hand below their knee on their delivery causing their body to get ahead of the pitch and the ball is delivered late. ALL of these things PREVENT you from having a consistent and repeatable wind-up and delivery and THAT is the key to consistency and control in pitching.

It's frustrating as hell for me to watch these young kids come up and NOBODY has corrected these BLATENT flaws.

You don't even want to get me started on our poor coaching of hitters. Pat Burrel was a prime example. He had great natural ability but actually VERY poor technique. You would think that once he started having struggles that SOMEONE would have stepped in and changed his swing to make him do thi9ngs right but NOOOOO, they had him hunch over more and stick his ass out further causing him to swing with pretty much just his upper body, be off balance, and reaching for pitches.
 
FlyersFan61290

FlyersFan61290

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jml87 said:
Phillies now have worst run differential in the NL: -105. Only Houston at -176 is worse. Phillies' payroll: ~$160M. Astros' payroll: ~$13M.

Seriously, how does Amaro still have a job?
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That makes me pretty angry thinking about that cause it won't be dropping any time soon. So while the team continues to suck the ticket prices won't drop much either.

Didn't RAJ say it himself a couple years back that with a 170 mil (at the time) payroll and essentially an open checkbook if he can't field a contending team year after year then he's not doing his job right? I hope someone throws that back in his face someday soon. Two years now with such a high payroll and such a bad product is completely unacceptable. I think we should make a case for Amaro still having this job as a new wonder of the world.
 
Halladay

Halladay

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Hamels pitched really well again. I like what I see out of Ruf. He is killing rhp and struggling against lhp, and he doesnt seem terrible in the OF.
 
DrinkFightFlyers

DrinkFightFlyers

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Can a fan of Sabremetrics explain WAR to me? I have never been a proponent of these advanced stats, admittedly because I don't really understand exactly how they are calculated (I know what they measure, but not how they are measured). Anyway, last year Miguel Cabrera won the triple crown as we all know. I was on baseball reference because I wanted to see if the vote was unanimous to settle a bet (it wasn't, I lost).

I noticed that Mike Trout absolutely killed him in WAR and even Robinson Cano had a higher WAR than Cabrera. Mike Trout I can feasibly see it, he played in fewer games and had higher numbers in a couple pretty major categories (OBP, SB, R, BB). But Robinson Cano didn't match Cabrera in a single category. Cano had more ABs, but had a lower batting average, fewer runs, fewer hits, fewer HR, fewer RBIs, fewer SB, fewer walks, lower slugging percentage, lower OBP, and lower OPS. How does he then wind up with a higher WAR? Is it just that he is a better fielder?

EDIT: Cano's WAR was more than a full win (?) higher than Cabrera's.
 
zarley zelepukin

zarley zelepukin

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DrinkFightFlyers said:
Can a fan of Sabremetrics explain WAR to me? I have never been a proponent of these advanced stats, admittedly because I don't really understand exactly how they are calculated (I know what they measure, but not how they are measured). Anyway, last year Miguel Cabrera won the triple crown as we all know. I was on baseball reference because I wanted to see if the vote was unanimous to settle a bet (it wasn't, I lost).

I noticed that Mike Trout absolutely killed him in WAR and even Robinson Cano had a higher WAR than Cabrera. Mike Trout I can feasibly see it, he played in fewer games and had higher numbers in a couple pretty major categories (OBP, SB, R, BB). But Robinson Cano didn't match Cabrera in a single category. Cano had more ABs, but had a lower batting average, fewer runs, fewer hits, fewer HR, fewer RBIs, fewer SB, fewer walks, lower slugging percentage, lower OBP, and lower OPS. How does he then wind up with a higher WAR? Is it just that he is a better fielder?

EDIT: Cano's WAR was more than a full win (?) higher than Cabrera's.
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Because WAR takes into account defense, baserunning and positional value. Trout built his WAR lead on Cabrera mostly because he's a way superior defensive player (at a more valuable defensive position) and baserunner. Similar idea with Cano, since 2B is also a valuable defensive position. Cabrera is either a 1B or a bad defensive 3B, and that is a mark against his total value.
 
FLYguy3911

FLYguy3911

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Justified said:
Hamels pitched really well again. I like what I see out of Ruf. He is killing rhp and struggling against lhp, and he doesnt seem terrible in the OF.
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He's struggled all year against LHP, which is weird because throughout his career he absolutely kills lefties. Could be scary to see when and if he figures them out.
 
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